Mount Bellew, MGWR

[2996 Victor]

31 minutes ago, David Holman said:

Will see what I can dig out, MM - though they were all in the pre-digital age so will need to take photos of photos to post them here. Have included a picture of Jane/Shannon. She may look at home on my 5'3, but is narrow gauge, of course!

More fantastic work! Brilliant!

[jhb171achill]

An update to Midland brake van livery. 

I had mentioned earlier that there was uncertainty about the green shade, but the carriage brown IS known of, and horse boxes were brown.

It seems that brake vans were also brown - when they were green or brown, or when any change took place, I have not yet established.

[2996 Victor]

Well, I've been fairly busy!

I've subscribed to New Irish Lines, I've been in touch with Des Sullivan at SSM to order some W-iron and brake gear etches and a couple of his MGWR Convertible wagon kits, I've emailed North Yard Models in New Zealand regarding 28mm pinpoint axles for rolling stock and I've contacted Stephen Freeman of Borg Rail about constructing points and have received some extremely reasonable quotations. This latter approach means that I only have to worry about a track gauge for plain track and a back-to-back gauge for wheels, which are proving difficult to find. On a slightly less positive note, I also contacted Ultrascale about their 21mm gauge wagon wheels and axles, but they are unable to give any timescale for production which, added to their significant cost premium, makes them a bit of a no-no.

Unfortunately, none of my books has turned up yet, which is a bit of blow. So I was wondering if anyone could advise what form of track work the MGWR would have used on a branch line, i.e. chaired bull-head, spike flat-bottomed, etc, I'd be grateful as this will help me with the decision on model trackwork. It also means I'm stuck for starting any rolling stock construction, although John @Mayner has been incredibly kind in sending me electronic copies of drawings he has, I'm currently sans printer. So here's a very cheeky request: does anyone have a dimensioned drawing of, say, an open wagon that I could cut my teeth on?

My next task is to devise some sort of track layout for my project, which is more than likely to be a fictional location. I've not decided where its going to be set, which of course would affect the traffic a fictional line would have carried and hence the track layout, so again I'm a bit stuck until my books arrive. In any case, it will need to be quite small as mentioned somewhere above, probably 6' long as a maximum.

Thanks again to everyone who has offered help and kind words of advice, please do keep your thoughts and suggestions coming!

Stay safe and stay well,

Mark

[jhb171achill]

Just thinking of your chosen era, Mark - for a branch line setting, if that's what you're going for, the Midland (similar to the GSWR) had an almost standard set-up for a passenger train, which was:

Full brake or brake third

First Class coach

2nd / 3rd composite

...with an extra all-third added as required

- or -

Full brake or brake third

1st / 2nd composite

One or two thirds.

[2996 Victor]

19 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

Just thinking of your chosen era, Mark - for a branch line setting, if that's what you're going for, the Midland (similar to the GSWR) had an almost standard set-up for a passenger train, which was:

Full brake or brake third

First Class coach

2nd / 3rd composite

...with an extra all-third added as required

- or -

Full brake or brake third

1st / 2nd composite

One or two thirds.

Many thanks, Jonathan, for the extra info - presumably these would be six-wheelers rather than bogie vehicles? And how often would the trains be mixed?

Kind regards,

Mark

[Galteemore]

1 hour ago, 2996 Victor said:

Well, I've been fairly busy!

I've subscribed to New Irish Lines, I've been in touch with Des Sullivan at SSM to order some W-iron and brake gear etches and a couple of his MGWR Convertible wagon kits, I've emailed North Yard Models in New Zealand regarding 28mm pinpoint axles for rolling stock and I've contacted Stephen Freeman of Borg Rail about constructing points and have received some extremely reasonable quotations. This latter approach means that I only have to worry about a track gauge for plain track and a back-to-back gauge for wheels, which are proving difficult to find. On a slightly less positive note, I also contacted Ultrascale about their 21mm gauge wagon wheels and axles, but they are unable to give any timescale for production which, added to their significant cost premium, makes them a bit of a no-no.

Unfortunately, none of my books has turned up yet, which is a bit of blow. So I was wondering if anyone could advise what form of track work the MGWR would have used on a branch line, i.e. chaired bull-head, spike flat-bottomed, etc, I'd be grateful as this will help me with the decision on model trackwork. It also means I'm stuck for starting any rolling stock construction, although John @Mayner has been incredibly kind in sending me electronic copies of drawings he has, I'm currently sans printer. So here's a very cheeky request: does anyone have a dimensioned drawing of, say, an open wagon that I could cut my teeth on?

My next task is to devise some sort of track layout for my project, which is more than likely to be a fictional location. I've not decided where its going to be set, which of course would affect the traffic a fictional line would have carried and hence the track layout, so again I'm a bit stuck until my books arrive. In any case, it will need to be quite small as mentioned somewhere above, probably 6' long as a maximum.

Thanks again to everyone who has offered help and kind words of advice, please do keep your thoughts and suggestions coming!

Stay safe and stay well,

Mark

Books are always a wise investment - although frustrating to wait for at times. I’ve bought a fair amount of hard to find books from the US and it’s always nice when one lands in! 

I’d go for FB rail - click below for a classic MGWR terminus. I’ll PM you a drawing. 
 

https://www.geograph.ie/photo/3117758

Edited April 23, 2020 by Galteemore

[Midland Man]

Just now, 2996 Victor said:

Well, I've been fairly busy!

I've subscribed to New Irish Lines, I've been in touch with Des Sullivan at SSM to order some W-iron and brake gear etches and a couple of his MGWR Convertible wagon kits, I've emailed North Yard Models in New Zealand regarding 28mm pinpoint axles for rolling stock and I've contacted Stephen Freeman of Borg Rail about constructing points and have received some extremely reasonable quotations. This latter approach means that I only have to worry about a track gauge for plain track and a back-to-back gauge for wheels, which are proving difficult to find. On a slightly less positive note, I also contacted Ultrascale about their 21mm gauge wagon wheels and axles, but they are unable to give any timescale for production which, added to their significant cost premium, makes them a bit of a no-no.

Unfortunately, none of my books has turned up yet, which is a bit of blow. So I was wondering if anyone could advise what form of track work the MGWR would have used on a branch line, i.e. chaired bull-head, spike flat-bottomed, etc, I'd be grateful as this will help me with the decision on model trackwork. It also means I'm stuck for starting any rolling stock construction, although John @Mayner has been incredibly kind in sending me electronic copies of drawings he has, I'm currently sans printer. So here's a very cheeky request: does anyone have a dimensioned drawing of, say, an open wagon that I could cut my teeth on?

My next task is to devise some sort of track layout for my project, which is more than likely to be a fictional location. I've not decided where its going to be set, which of course would affect the traffic a fictional line would have carried and hence the track layout, so again I'm a bit stuck until my books arrive. In any case, it will need to be quite small as mentioned somewhere above, probably 6' long as a maximum.

Thanks again to everyone who has offered help and kind words of advice, please do keep your thoughts and suggestions coming!

Stay safe and stay well,

Mark

Cant wait to sea what you make. All seems well.

Edited April 23, 2020 by Midland Man

[jhb171achill]

50 minutes ago, 2996 Victor said:

Many thanks, Jonathan, for the extra info - presumably these would be six-wheelers rather than bogie vehicles? And how often would the trains be mixed?

Kind regards,

Mark

Yes, six-wheelers.

On most branchlines, not just Midland ones, you don't really see bogies appearing all that much if at all until the late 1920s / 1930s, when one bogie compo tends to replace a couple of six-wheelers; many branch trains then become one bogie with a six-wheeled brake third or the like.

Once bogie coaches started being built in the 1890s (there were but a handful before that), gradually the newer six-wheeled stock, including a few with an internal "corridor" between the few compartments, but no gangways, were "cascaded" onto secondary lines, and were more than adequate for that type of work. Thus, on a typical 10-15 mile branch, you were to see many six-wheelers lasting until the final pogrom of such branches in the late 50s and very early 60s. What was left of six-wheel stock was all concentrated in Cork, where they were used as spare excursion stock on the Youghal line until late spring 1963, after which the only six-wheelers in traffic were the handful of GSWR passenger vans I mentioned earlier.

How often would trains be mixed - an absolutely typical rural branch line service on most country lines from one end of Ireland to the other, and on both gauges, had one return passenger train per day and one mixed - all year round. On market days or summer season usually a second passenger service would run. Fair days, especially in the midlands and west, would often see an extra train plus a cattle special.

On main lines, mixed trains were less common, as goods levels warranted separate goods trains, but separate goods trains were only on some branch lines - which, as a result, would probably have the daily goods and 2-3 passenger trains, but not a mixed.

Mail was often carried on the mixed train too, as the delays at stations due to shunting trucks allowed mails to be loaded and offloaded too. For model railways set in the first twenty years of the century, mail carriage was universal, and you might have an RIC man (on a bicycle!) at the station to supervise the post office men loading and unloading mailbags in case they were "interrupted"!

So, for a model of a branch, you're looking at a set which prototypically will be three or four six-wheelers which shuttle up and won the branch two or three (maybe four) times a day, one of the return trips being the mixed. On fair days, for modelling interest, a cattle special or two - your branch terminus could be a bit like Loughrea with a huge cattle mart right next door. GAA specials, pilgrimage specials, and one not often considered by modellers - harvest emigration specials (common in the west of Ireland) could bring in a six-coach train of mixed bogies and six-wheelers.

Compared with Britain, where long-wheelbase four wheelers (like the Ratio plastic kit) were common on branch lines, Irish main line companies didn't really have four-wheelers much after 1880. The MGWR certainly had ONE as late as 1914, whose design incidentally was utterly unlike anything in Britain, but that seems a one-off. So, recourse to a 6-wheeled chassis is going to be obligatory. Even on the main lines, most trains had at least one or two well into the 1940s and earlier 50s.

Sorry for the long ramble.

Give me an idea of what area of the country you plan to model and I will post scans of the 1921 or 1926 timetables for that area.

 

[Midland Man]

There was a midland branch that had a double row engine shed (and no it is not Achill!) you could do a model of Killina but photos are rare but I could get you the track plan but it could take about About a day to find. Plus Killina has no turn table. Yay for some by no for others.

[2996 Victor]

58 minutes ago, Galteemore said:

Books are always a wise investment - although frustrating to wait for at times. I’ve bought a fair amount of hard to find books from the US and it’s always nice when one lands in! 

I’d go for FB rail - click below for a classic MGWR terminus. I’ll PM you a drawing. 
 

https://www.geograph.ie/photo/3117758

Thank you for the link - that's a fabulous photograph! The track is almost exactly what I'd imagined - the uneven ballasting, worn sleepers and the accumulation of cinders in the platform road all speak volumes! I'm guessing that for my period, the sleepers would have been perhaps a little better, condition-wise, but otherwise much the same.

Thanks also for the drawing - that's the perfect vehicle for a starter project! The leading dimensions are a huge help: such a shame the Broadstone Series don't seem to have any scale on them, although the gauge is shown, of course.

With kindest regards,

Mark

[2996 Victor]

6 minutes ago, Midland Man said:

There was a midland branch that had a double row engine shed (and no it is not Achill!) you could do a model of Killina but photos are rare but I could get you the track plan but it could take about About a day to find. Plus Killina has no turn table. Yay for some by no for others.

Hi @Midland Man,

thanks you very much for your kind offer, its hugely appreciated, so if it's not too much of a pain to find, I'd be very pleased to have a copy of the Killina track plan. I'm not worried about there not being a turntable - its only something else to go wrong or break 

With kind regards,

Mark

[Midland Man]

3mm to a foot is the scale.

[Garfield]

Edenderry had a two-road engine shed. It did have a turntable, however. In fact, due to limited space it was used in lieu of a set of points to allow the loco access to the loop from the platform road in order to run around its train...

Track plan here: https://bit.ly/2xVqei2

[Galteemore]

Athboy had similar provision of locomotive facilities. 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/athboy100.com/2016/05/17/the-athboy-railway-station/amp/

Edited April 23, 2020 by Galteemore

[2996 Victor]

23 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

Yes, six-wheelers.

On most branchlines, not just Midland ones, you don't really see bogies appearing all that much if at all until the late 1920s / 1930s, when one bogie compo tends to replace a couple of six-wheelers; many branch trains then become one bogie with a six-wheeled brake third or the like.

Once bogie coaches started being built in the 1890s (there were but a handful before that), gradually the newer six-wheeled stock, including a few with an internal "corridor" between the few compartments, but no gangways, were "cascaded" onto secondary lines, and were more than adequate for that type of work. Thus, on a typical 10-15 mile branch, you were to see many six-wheelers lasting until the final pogrom of such branches in the late 50s and very early 60s. What was left of six-wheel stock was all concentrated in Cork, where they were used as spare excursion stock on the Youghal line until late spring 1963, after which the only six-wheelers in traffic were the handful of GSWR passenger vans I mentioned earlier.

How often would trains be mixed - an absolutely typical rural branch line service on most country lines from one end of Ireland to the other, and on both gauges, had one return passenger train per day and one mixed - all year round. On market days or summer season usually a second passenger service would run. Fair days, especially in the midlands and west, would often see an extra train plus a cattle special.

On main lines, mixed trains were less common, as goods levels warranted separate goods trains, but separate goods trains were only on some branch lines - which, as a result, would probably have the daily goods and 2-3 passenger trains, but not a mixed.

Mail was often carried on the mixed train too, as the delays at stations due to shunting trucks allowed mails to be loaded and offloaded too. For model railways set in the first twenty years of the century, mail carriage was universal, and you might have an RIC man (on a bicycle!) at the station to supervise the post office men loading and unloading mailbags in case they were "interrupted"!

So, for a model of a branch, you're looking at a set which prototypically will be three or four six-wheelers which shuttle up and won the branch two or three (maybe four) times a day, one of the return trips being the mixed. On fair days, for modelling interest, a cattle special or two - your branch terminus could be a bit like Loughrea with a huge cattle mart right next door. GAA specials, pilgrimage specials, and one not often considered by modellers - harvest emigration specials (common in the west of Ireland) could bring in a six-coach train of mixed bogies and six-wheelers.

Compared with Britain, where long-wheelbase four wheelers (like the Ratio plastic kit) were common on branch lines, Irish main line companies didn't really have four-wheelers much after 1880. The MGWR certainly had ONE as late as 1914, whose design incidentally was utterly unlike anything in Britain, but that seems a one-off. So, recourse to a 6-wheeled chassis is going to be obligatory. Even on the main lines, most trains had at least one or two well into the 1940s and earlier 50s.

Sorry for the long ramble.

Give me an idea of what area of the country you plan to model and I will post scans of the 1921 or 1926 timetables for that area.

 

Thank you as always for your reply: you are indeed the font of all knowledge and I for one would like to heartily thank you for sharing it!

Where to start? Well, for the location, I'm embarassed to say I don't really know, although I'm leaning toward the western half of the system with a branch of similar length to Loughrea or Ballinmore, possibly somewhere in the Athlone/Claremorris/Athenry triangle, where I think livestock may have been grazed?

So I think it's fair to assume (always a dangerous thing to do!) that a branch line such as I'm envisaging would have been limited to the one or two passenger and one mixed trains per day, but with with fair day and livestock specials. Thanks also for the information on the parcels/mails traffic, which probably wouldn't have occurred to me and which offer another cameo opportunity.

Coach building is also going to be a new departure for me, which I'm looking forward to! I have yet to investigate Worsley Works scratch-aid etchings - etched brass brings me out in a rash (shame about those 3D-prints - I may take the plunge and order one, although as I mentioned earlier on the other thread, I wasn't impressed with my previous purchases from the same supplier).

Thanks again for all your help and advice, its hugely appreciated!

With kind regards,

Mark

[Midland Man]

. The Osi maps will have a better version and my version is in two parts.opps there was a turntable

Just now, Galteemore said:

Athboy had similar provision of locomotive facilities. 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/athboy100.com/2016/05/17/the-athboy-railway-station/amp/

That was the one I was talking about would look really nice with some SSM J26s.

Edited April 23, 2020 by Midland Man

[jhb171achill]

44 minutes ago, 2996 Victor said:

Hi @Midland Man,

thanks you very much for your kind offer, its hugely appreciated, so if it's not too much of a pain to find, I'd be very pleased to have a copy of the Killina track plan. I'm not worried about there not being a turntable - its only something else to go wrong or break 

With kind regards,

Mark

Do we mean Killala here, north of Ballina, or possibly Ballina itself?

Ballina certainly had a turntable. As for Killala, I would have thought it did too, as it was operated by 0.6.0s. 

33 minutes ago, Garfield said:

Edenderry........did have a turntable, however. In fact, due to limited space it was used in lieu of a set of points to allow the loco access to the loop from the platform road in order to run around its train...

Track plan here: https://bit.ly/2xVqei2

This was a system in use at a number of locations. Few, though they did exist. Useful for modellers!

Edited April 23, 2020 by jhb171achill

[2996 Victor]

41 minutes ago, Garfield said:

Edenderry had a two-road engine shed. It did have a turntable, however. In fact, due to limited space it was used in lieu of a set of points to allow the loco access to the loop from the platform road in order to run around its train...

Track plan here: https://bit.ly/2xVqei2

Thanks for the link - its an interesting layout and the use of the turntable as a loco release is intriguing! And space-saving..... 

Kind regards,

Mark

40 minutes ago, Galteemore said:

Athboy had similar provision of locomotive facilities. 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/athboy100.com/2016/05/17/the-athboy-railway-station/amp/

Many thanks for the link, this another interesting layout, particularly the way the shed roads also fan off of the turntable.

With kind regards,

Mark

[2996 Victor]

One thing that I have noticed in a number of photographs I've seen, and is visible in the photograph of Athboy with the turntable in the foreground, is that the nearest section of the platform is higher than the rest. What is the reason for this? Presumably loading of some sort?

Many thanks for any enlightenment!

With kind regards,

Mark

[Galteemore]

That figures. The high part seems to be aligned with the road access to the platform. 

[jhb171achill]

51 minutes ago, 2996 Victor said:

One thing that I have noticed in a number of photographs I've seen, and is visible in the photograph of Athboy with the turntable in the foreground, is that the nearest section of the platform is higher than the rest. What is the reason for this? Presumably loading of some sort?

Many thanks for any enlightenment!

With kind regards,

Mark

Yes, a common feature. For loading hoses into horse boxes.

[Galteemore]

Indeed. Proper hydration is vital.

[jhb171achill]

OK, to show service levels on Midland branch lines, these are from the GSR 1926 Working Timetable. I’ve a couple of actual MGWR ones but they are not handy to access, and tell 99% the same story anyway.

These are typical not just of the Midland, but the great majority of the GSWR, DSER, CBSCR, GNR and NCC also, and the narrow gauge lines.

Trains marked “Mail” were mixed. They were only designated as such on branch lines because they connected with main line up and down, day and night mail trains at junctions.

 

[Midland Man]

Clara had 3 train each way which all ended  in Mulligar thus the double row shed and turntable.

MM

[2996 Victor]

49 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

OK, to show service levels on Midland branch lines, these are from the GSR 1926 Working Timetable. I’ve a couple of actual MGWR ones but they are not handy to access, and tell 99% the same story anyway.

These are typical not just of the Midland, but the great majority of the GSWR, DSER, CBSCR, GNR and NCC also, and the narrow gauge lines.

Trains marked “Mail” were mixed. They were only designated as such on branch lines because they connected with main line up and down, day and night mail trains at junctions.

Jonathan, these are amazing, thank you so much! They're an incredible source of information and an invaluable reference for running practices on a model.

With kind regards,

Mark

[jhb171achill]

40 minutes ago, Midland Man said:

Clara had 3 train each way which all ended  in Mulligar thus the double row shed and turntable.

MM

Here ye go! Both of Clara’s branch lines.

 

[Midland Man]

Reminds me of a goo layout idea as there was a roate mentioned from Mullingar to Tulimore but never happened. The line was such a stupid idea as about 20 people were on one train. Horseleap was in the middle of no where and Clara was only important because of its sidings.

[jhb171achill]

2 hours ago, Midland Man said:

Reminds me of a good layout idea as there was a route mentioned from Mullingar to Tullamore but never happened. The line was such a stupid idea as about 20 people were on one train. Horseleap was in the middle of nowhere and Clara was only important because of its sidings.

Many rural lines were built with higher hopes than realised - even today we hear of schemes like the Larne - Scotland tunnel or bridge; back in the 1880s - 1910s period, before the war. numerous schemes were put forward which even then could be seen as fantasy economics.

This is good for the modeller, as it gives good excuses for very small termini with (as seen above) two to three trains a day and minimal rolling stock. Some of the branchlines I have posted timetables for above could be operated with one 0.6.0, two six-wheel coaches and a dozen wagons, running between the terminus and a fiddle yard.

Someone mentioned using the 3mm scale somewhere above.

In doing this, virtually all stock would have to be scratchbuilt. One can obtain kits of open wagons, and a LNER J72 class tank engine which might just about pass the 3-foot rule as a Midland J16. There are not, to my knowledge, and goods vans, guard's vans, cattle trucks (ESSENTIAL for ANY Midland layout!) or coaches which would come close to being suitable. Motor bogies can be obtained, but going down one more scale to N gauge would be easier if space for 4mm is unavailable.

Worsley Works do "scratch-aid" kits of several modern CIE carriages in 3mm, and a G class diesel. So if you went for the 1960s you could, like the Loughrea branch, have a "G" and a one-coach train, hauling wagons back and forth..... but even these kits need a lot of work.

Edited April 23, 2020 by jhb171achill

[Angus]

A little while ago I was looking for inspiration as to what I might model to reflect my growing MGWR interest.

I spent some time in the "National inventory of Architectural Heritage"  web site.

The link below takes you to the remains of the fortress coal stage and watertower at Sligo.

https://www.buildingsofireland.ie/buildings-search/building/32006061/macdiarmada-sligo-railway-station-rathedmond-sligo-county-sligo

If you click view on a map it shows other structures of interest that remain which can be opened to reveal photos of their current state.

Alternatively in the map view you can select different map backgrounds including, for most locations, the historic 25" to the mile map which has some detail of the track formations.

You can search different areas in the mapping function you can then pan down into remaining buildings and track layouts.

I think I lost a weekend in that site but now have track plans for most of the MGWR terminal stations.

Edited April 23, 2020 by Angus

[2996 Victor]

10 minutes ago, Angus said:

A little while ago I was looking for inspiration as to what I might model to reflect my growing MGWR interest.

I spent some time in the "National inventory of Architectural Heritage"  web site.

The link below takes you to the remains of the fortress coal stage and watertower at Sligo.

https://www.buildingsofireland.ie/buildings-search/building/32006061/macdiarmada-sligo-railway-station-rathedmond-sligo-county-sligo

If you click view on a map it shows other structures of interest that remain which can be opened to reveal photos of their current state.

Alternatively in the map view you can select different map backgrounds including, for most locations, the historic 25" to the mile map which has some detail of the track formations.

You can search different areas in the mapping function you can then pan down into remaining buildings and track layouts.

I think I lost a weekend in that site but now have track plans for most of the MGWR terminal stations.

Hi Angus,

this is amazing, thank you for posting the link! There's a wealth of information to be found via that website - the availability of the 25inch maps is an incredible boon to modellers looking for track layouts. I can easily see how you could lose a significant amount of time looking at it, and I'm sure I will do the same!

Thanks again and very best regards,

Mark

[Mayner]

After the opening of the Sligo & Cavan lines the Midland tended to get local companies or the government to promote or build branch lines to be worked by the Midland. These worked branches were built to meet Midland construction and civil engineering standards although some of the Western Branches were technically Light Railways they were built to the main line standards of the 1890s. The Light Railway Western branches of the Midland, Achill, Ballinrobe, Clifden, Killala and Loughrea were substantially built with realatively easy grades, substantial brick or stone buildings, usually with a standard MGWR 2 road engine shed, water tower and coal store at terminals, these branches only became light in terms of axle load, when the main lines were re-laid with heavier rails and bridges upgraded to accommodate the heavier locos of the 20th Century.

The small E Class tanks appear to have been introduced in the 1890s as a standard locomotive to work the Western lines and short feeder branches, but tender locos like the D Class 2-4-0s, L,Lm,Ln 0-6-0s worked goods and passenger trains on branch lines often working cattle specials from the big fairs in the West through to the Dublin Yards.

There are photos and details of train consists on the Ballinrobe and Loughrea branches in the "Baronial Lines" E Class 0-6-0T were generally used on passenger and mixed trains from opening until replaced by tender locos from the late 1930s onwards, there is a photo of a D Class 2-4-0 at Ballinrobe shortly before the loco was withdrawn in 1922. The branch train was usually made up of 3 6 wheel coaches a 3rd, a Composite and Brake 3rd, 2nd Class accommodation was provided on the Midland until withdrawn in 1912. Apart from the Limited Mail Stock of 1901-2 the Midland only had a handful of bogie stock on the 1900-1906 era a quartet of tri-composite coaches with a center luggage compartment introduced in the late 1890s, possibly for through working of tourist traffic from the main line to the Clifden and Achill Branches. Someone once remarked that the Midland was a Patrician rather than a Proletarian Railway with a high proportion of 1st and 2nd class Bogie stock.

Train frequency seems to have been 3-4 trains daily including a mixed in each direction on most branch lines from opening until services were cut back during the Emergency, with 1-2 trains daily on surviving lines with passenger services until closure except for a brief revival in the 60s on the Loughrea Branch and the survival of the Ballina Branch as a feeder line with main line connections. The reduction in train services from 3-4 to 1-2 trains daily in CIE days may have driven the need to replace the E  Class with more powerful tender locos as goods traffic appears to have held up although passenger traffic continued to decrease.

The L,Lm,Ln Standard Goods classes worked cattle specials from the opening of the lines, with the loco working through from the main line with the empties and working the laden train through to Liffey Junction or the North Wall Yards in Dublin for shipping, traffic from the large seasonal fair in the West could be heavy with stations like Loughrea, Ballinrobe dispatching 3-4 trains of 25-30 wagons during a large fair.

In pre-Amalgamation days goods traffic appears to have been carried mainly in the MGWR standard convertible wagons, open box wagons and timber on twin bolster wagons, hardwood timber for export to Great Britain from the large estates was am inportant traffic in the pre-WW1 era, the Midland used gravel ballast in low sided open wagons from local pits with a pit at Dunsandle on the Loughrea Branch before the introduction of hopper wagons in 1905 and a change to limestone ballast with the opening of Lecarrow Quarry on the Mayo Line.

Track was flatbottom approx 80lb yd, usually spiked down to sleepers on branch lines, with bolt fixing and sole plates at joints, half round sleepers were used on the Loughrea and Ballinrobe Branches when opened and both branches were re-laid with material cascaded from the main line during the 1920s. There may be a photo of this type of track in David Malone's  Model Rail Digest article on modelling Irish broad gauge trackwork.

A branch line from Ballinasloe to Mount Bellew or Moylough built by an independent company and worked by the Midland appears to be reasonably plausible large villages in excellent cattle country though the WLWR or GSWR would probably object.

Edited April 23, 2020 by Mayner

[2996 Victor]

13 hours ago, Mayner said:

After the opening of the Sligo & Cavan lines the Midland tended to get local companies or the government to promote or build branch lines to be worked by the Midland. These worked branches were built to meet Midland construction and civil engineering standards although some of the Western Branches were technically Light Railways they were built to the main line standards of the 1890s. The Light Railway Western branches of the Midland, Achill, Ballinrobe, Clifden, Killala and Loughrea were substantially built with realatively easy grades, substantial brick or stone buildings, usually with a standard MGWR 2 road engine shed, water tower and coal store at terminals, these branches only became light in terms of axle load, when the main lines were re-laid with heavier rails and bridges upgraded to accommodate the heavier locos of the 20th Century.

The small E Class tanks appear to have been introduced in the 1890s as a standard locomotive to work the Western lines and short feeder branches, but tender locos like the D Class 2-4-0s, L,Lm,Ln 0-6-0s worked goods and passenger trains on branch lines often working cattle specials from the big fairs in the West through to the Dublin Yards.

There are photos and details of train consists on the Ballinrobe and Loughrea branches in the "Baronial Lines" E Class 0-6-0T were generally used on passenger and mixed trains from opening until replaced by tender locos from the late 1930s onwards, there is a photo of a D Class 2-4-0 at Ballinrobe shortly before the loco was withdrawn in 1922. The branch train was usually made up of 3 6 wheel coaches a 3rd, a Composite and Brake 3rd, 2nd Class accommodation was provided on the Midland until withdrawn in 1912. Apart from the Limited Mail Stock of 1901-2 the Midland only had a handful of bogie stock on the 1900-1906 era a quartet of tri-composite coaches with a center luggage compartment introduced in the late 1890s, possibly for through working of tourist traffic from the main line to the Clifden and Achill Branches. Someone once remarked that the Midland was a Patrician rather than a Proletarian Railway with a high proportion of 1st and 2nd class Bogie stock.

Train frequency seems to have been 3-4 trains daily including a mixed in each direction on most branch lines from opening until services were cut back during the Emergency, with 1-2 trains daily on surviving lines with passenger services until closure except for a brief revival in the 60s on the Loughrea Branch and the survival of the Ballina Branch as a feeder line with main line connections. The reduction in train services from 3-4 to 1-2 trains daily in CIE days may have driven the need to replace the E  Class with more powerful tender locos as goods traffic appears to have held up although passenger traffic continued to decrease.

The L,Lm,Ln Standard Goods classes worked cattle specials from the opening of the lines, with the loco working through from the main line with the empties and working the laden train through to Liffey Junction or the North Wall Yards in Dublin for shipping, traffic from the large seasonal fair in the West could be heavy with stations like Loughrea, Ballinrobe dispatching 3-4 trains of 25-30 wagons during a large fair.

In pre-Amalgamation days goods traffic appears to have been carried mainly in the MGWR standard convertible wagons, open box wagons and timber on twin bolster wagons, hardwood timber for export to Great Britain from the large estates was am inportant traffic in the pre-WW1 era, the Midland used gravel ballast in low sided open wagons from local pits with a pit at Dunsandle on the Loughrea Branch before the introduction of hopper wagons in 1905 and a change to limestone ballast with the opening of Lecarrow Quarry on the Mayo Line.

Track was flatbottom approx 80lb yd, usually spiked down to sleepers on branch lines, with bolt fixing and sole plates at joints, half round sleepers were used on the Loughrea and Ballinrobe Branches when opened and both branches were re-laid with material cascaded from the main line during the 1920s. There may be a photo of this type of track in David Malone's  Model Rail Digest article on modelling Irish broad gauge trackwork.

A branch line from Ballinasloe to Mount Bellew or Moylough built by an independent company and worked by the Midland appears to be reasonably plausible large villages in excellent cattle country though the WLWR or GSWR would probably object.

Hi John,

many thanks once again for your incredibly detailed post, I can't thank you and everyone else enough for all the help and assistance I've received for my little project!

I was actually looking at Mount Bellew and Moylough as possible branch line terminii, so it's great to know that I'm thinking along the right lines and the little research I did into farming seemed to indicate that it was good cattle country that could conceivably support livestock and fair specials. From what you've said, it would most probably have been built by an independent company but that the station buildings would have been to standard MGWR architectural designs, or does that apply only to the locomotive sheds and facilities? I received my copy of "Baronial Lines" earlier today - it must be a rarity, given the price of it, but it certainly seems to contain a good deal of information.

Thanks also for confirming the track construction. It's pretty much what I was thinking it would be, but its great to have it confirmed. David Malone's article in RailModel Digest No.2 on trackwork does indeed mention the half-round sleepers used on the Baronial branches, and details a way to effectively model it using bamboo skewers which I want to have a go at! There's a photo at the bottom of page 82 showing a 4-4-0 at Achill, circa 1910, with half-round sleepers in the foreground, and a model representation at the top of page 84.

Thanks again and kind regards,

Mark

[2996 Victor]

My cup runneth over!

I've been incredibly fortunate to have had so many detailed and informative responses from so many knowledgeable folks! Thank you all once again, and please keep it coming - I'd like to think of this thread as a source of reference for anyone already modelling the MGWR or wanting to.

My books arrived today, The Midland Great Western Railway of Ireland by Ernie Shepherd, Rails to Achill by Jonathan Beaumont, The Baronial Lines of the MGWR by Padraic O'Cuimin and Modelling Irish Railways by Stephen Johnson and Alan O'Rourke. If there are any others that are a "must" for my bookshelf, please do let me know!

John @Mayner has also reminded me that there was a series of articles by David Malone in the short-lived RailModel Digest magazine edited by Iain Rice an d Mike Peascod, which contains much information of use to modellers, including photographs of his excellent Cliffoney layout, locomotives and rolling stock.

Now to get back to drafting out a track plan for a layout. And where can I get a Class E.....? 

With kind regards,

Mark

[Midland Man]

SSM model make a E class kit but it's may need to be modified. Does anyone have pics of Cliffoney?

[jhb171achill]

5 minutes ago, 2996 Victor said:

My cup runneth over!

I've been incredibly fortunate to have had so many detailed and informative responses from so many knowledgeable folks! Thank you all once again, and please keep it coming - I'd like to think of this thread as a source of reference for anyone already modelling the MGWR or wanting to.

My books arrived today, The Midland Great Western Railway of Ireland by Ernie Shepherd, Rails to Achill by Jonathan Beaumont, The Baronial Lines of the MGWR by Padraic O'Cuimin and Modelling Irish Railways by Stephen Johnson and Alan O'Rourke. If there are any others that are a "must" for my bookshelf, please do let me know!

John @Mayner has also reminded me that there was a series of articles by David Malone in the short-lived RailModel Digest magazine edited by Iain Rice an d Mike Peascod, which contains much information of use to modellers, including photographs of his excellent Cliffoney layout, locomotives and rolling stock.

Now to get back to drafting out a track plan for a layout. And where can I get a Class E.....? 

With kind regards,

Mark

Years ago, I saw a picture of a model someone had made (or repainted!) of a (British) LNER J72 which he had tweaked a bit - I can't remember how, but it involved filing a few bits and gluing on some small bits - not a huge conversion job. Now, it was most certainly not an exact model of a Midland "E" class, but painted grey and with a big number "555" on the side, it looked convincing enough to pass at least the "three foot" rule...

The British equivalent of the K class (the Southern Railway's N class) 2.6.0s can be adapted as Irish, if you can't get an actual Bachmann K class.  Mind you, all of these entered traffic just after the MGWR had become but one part of the GSR, so reference to them as "Midland" engines is stretching things a bit, as in addition to this many spent most of their working lives nowhere near the Midland - used on Waterford - Limerick, Waterford - Cork and Dublin - Cork. Naturally they were also regulars on the Galway and Sligo lines too. So a GSR-era layout will have those. 

While I have not researched it, there may be some Bachmann or Hornby 4.4.0 which might warrant conversion to half-reasonable approximation to an "A" class 4.4.0, and a J18 goods / mixed traffic 0.6.0 could be made up by altering some "bought" 0.6.0. JM Design (John Mayne, here) is offering an extremely nice brass kit of the G2 2.4.0.

A model of a D16 4.4.0 would have me running to sell the car!

There's a model available of several South Eastern & Chatham bogies which if you shorten them a bit bear a vague resemblance to some MGWR bogies of 1900-05 type of design.

The six-wheel carriages, though, are the killer. A MGWR layout based on anything pre-1960 will need them in some shape or form. I asked questions here the other night about the Shapeways 3D prints, and replies from those who know about such thing were far from complimentary about them. Plasticard, in reality, seems the best option here. Drawings are readily available.