Dunsandles station

[Buz]

Hi all

I hope I have the right spot for this.

I have a barely legible drawing of Dunsandles station 1897 that was emailed to me quite a while ago.

Can any one tell me is this is in fact an Irish station, as it certainly is not an English one.

But it is a possible for a simple model of a branch through station it has that look to it and just enough operation to keep me happy err I hope.

If it is Irish where is / was it and where can I get a legible copy of the diagram, and some building drawings for modeling Irish stations.

At this point in time where Irish trains, railways and geography are concerned I know nothing and only have plans for a small-ish  roundy roundy layout with hidden storage at the back.

You have to start a new challenge somewhere.

regards John

 

[murphaph]

I can't help you with your question John but best of luck with your Irish layout. I'm sure one of the resident experts here will be along to help a bit later.

There was a Dunsandle (note no trailing s) Station on the Loughrea branch. Maybe that's it?

Edited August 24, 2020 by murphaph

[Buz]

14 minutes ago, murphaph said:

I can't help you with your question John but best of luck with your Irish layout. I'm sure one of the resident experts here will be along to help a bit later.

There was a Dunsandle (note no trailing s) Station on the Loughrea branch. Maybe that's it?

Woopsie typo that's correct no trailing S that's what happens with drawing that are only just nearly readable

[Galteemore]

There is a Dunsandle on the old Loughrea branch. Check out the book ‘Baronial Lines of the MGWR’ for more. http://eiretrains.com/Photo_Gallery/Railway Stations D/Dunsandle/IrishRailwayStations.html

 

Edited August 24, 2020 by Galteemore

[Garfield]

Hi Buz,

Dunsandle, in County Galway, was the only intermediate stop on the branch from Attymon Junction to Loughrea. Although closed in the late 1970s it is in excellent condition thanks to the current owner, who has restored the buildings and added a selection of preserved rolling stock and E Class loco No. E421, all from the former Westrail collection previously stored in Tuam.

The owner has set up a Facebook page to document the restoration:

https://facebook.com/DunsandleRailwayStation/

 

[murphaph]

More info here:

http://dunsandlestation.blogspot.com/2004/12/history-of-dunsandle-station.html?m=1

[Buz]

Hi all

Thanks for the help

That is it and it looks do-able with only some of what I have in the way of loco and coaches. I might even have a couple of points to get me started. 

I should get a goods brake van from some where and a couple of four wheel wagons for a mixed train by the look of it.

What no steam heat for the coach?? and thank goodness I have 2 X 141locomotives one of the pictures has one of those as the locomotive for the train.

So we are now back to where can I get ledge-able diagrams and structure drawings so I can produce something that at least looks Irish even if not a strictly accurate 100% representation of the real station.

I find Model Railways look much more believable if the starting point is a real track plan even if the rest is a bit add hock and borrows bits from else where

Things are are now looking more promising so that's something.

regards John

[murphaph]

Maybe reach out to the current owner for any drawings they might have. I'm sure they'd be delighted to see someone modelling their station.

[Buz]

Hi all

Don't know why I did not think of this before but if the Scottish National Archive has the Harry Potter bridge OOPS I mean Glen Finnan (spelling) viaduct drawings

It is worth contacting the Irish National Archive to see if they can help with Dunsandle station drawings.

Which I have done today.

Thanks for the helpful Posts if you think of anything else please let me know.

The line to the ballast pit is it a branch line or long siding for operational purposes?

It appears to have its own ground frame and signals also to cover quite a distance to the pit.

regards John

[Garfield]

On 8/24/2020 at 9:21 AM, Buz said:

What no steam heat for the coach?? and thank goodness I have 2 X 141locomotives one of the pictures has one of those as the locomotive for the train.

The branch coach had storage heaters fitted so that a GSV wasn't required. It would have been hooked up to a shore supply overnight.

[Buz]

5 minutes ago, Garfield said:

The branch coach had storage heaters fitted so that a GSV wasn't required. It would have been hooked up to a shore supply overnight.

Would anything have shown outside the coach to indicate storage heating or would all the heating bits have been completely internal and out of sight.

regards John

[Garfield]

53 minutes ago, Buz said:

Would anything have shown outside the coach to indicate storage heating or would all the heating bits have been completely internal and out of sight.

regards John

I'm not overly-familiar with the coach so I can't say for certain, but I wouldn't think any external modifications would be required for the storage heaters as these likely fitted in under seats, and I don't think CIE would have gone to the trouble of removing the steam heating equipment. A socket would have been needed for the shore supply, but I'm not sure if this was located externally or if the power cable was simply run through an open window...

[228RiverOwenboy]

Hi lads, just wondering, is the coach (numbered 1633) located at Dunsandle a GSR Bredin or CIE Laminate?

Edited August 3, 2023 by 228RiverOwenboy

[Niles]

Neither actually... it's one of the early 1950s builds that came after the GSRs* but before the laminates. 

*(I'll refrain from calling them Bredins as technically they were a Harty design  ).

Edited August 3, 2023 by Niles

[228RiverOwenboy]

8 minutes ago, Niles said:

Neither actually... it's one of the early 1950s builds that came after the GSRs* but before the laminates. 

*(I'll refrain from calling them Bredins as technically they were a Harty design  ).

Oh, I see. Did that particular type of coach have a name?

[Niles]

1 hour ago, 228RiverOwenboy said:

Oh, I see. Did that particular type of coach have a name?

I don't think there was an official term. I've seen them referred to as 'mk2 Bredins' but I don't believe that was an official one or even if it had much circulation in enthusiast circles.

CIÉ carriage history is full of (oft-used) misnomers, you'll often see people mistakenly use 'laminate' or 'Park Royal' as a generic term when they actually refer to very specific types. The fact that they were all used together in indiscriminate mixed rakes doesn't help I guess.

Then you have the various types of diner in the 24xx series, which profile wise are probably closer to the carriage above, but continued to be built into the laminate era. And that's before we get into the various conversions... CIÉ carriage-ology can be a confusing study.  

Edited August 3, 2023 by Niles

[Mayner]

11 hours ago, 228RiverOwenboy said:

Oh, I see. Did that particular type of coach have a name?

CIE dose not appear to have had a type "name" for the coaches introduced in the early 1950s.

Officially coaches would have been referred to by their purpose and running nos. for example Buffet Car 2406-

 Early CIE stock was similar in design and construction to the pre-war Harty/Bredin coaches, basically aluminium paneling (Harty/Bredin steel) on timber framing on riveted/later welded steel framing on GSR style bogies. CIE introduced new types including 64 seat open coaches, buffet cars, and brake end coaches, the original CIE coaches introduced 1950 were 60" same length as Harty/Bredin, coaches CIE standardised on 61'6" as a body length from 1951 and coaches built from 1953 onwards including the Dunsandle coach ran on Bullied Triangulated underframe with Commonwealth bogies similar to the later Park Royal and Laminate stock.

[228RiverOwenboy]

9 hours ago, Mayner said:

CIE dose not appear to have had a type "name" for the coaches introduced in the early 1950s.

Officially coaches would have been referred to by their purpose and running nos. for example Buffet Car 2406-

 Early CIE stock was similar in design and construction to the pre-war Harty/Bredin coaches, basically aluminium paneling (Harty/Bredin steel) on timber framing on riveted/later welded steel framing on GSR style bogies. CIE introduced new types including 64 seat open coaches, buffet cars, and brake end coaches, the original CIE coaches introduced 1950 were 60" same length as Harty/Bredin, coaches CIE standardised on 61'6" as a body length from 1951 and coaches built from 1953 onwards including the Dunsandle coach ran on Bullied Triangulated underframe with Commonwealth bogies similar to the later Park Royal and Laminate stock.

They look fairly similar to the laminates numbered 2419-2422 (With 2422 and 2421 being preserved as fair as I know).

 

Credit: Dawgz  (Wikipedia)

Edited August 4, 2023 by 228RiverOwenboy

[Niles]

38 minutes ago, 228RiverOwenboy said:

They look fairly similar to the laminates numbered 2419-2422 (With 2422 and 2421 being preserved as fair as I know).

 

Credit: Dawgz  (Wikipedia)

2419 is preserved too  https://www.downrail.co.uk/rolling-stock/cie-2419/

Although strictly speaking they're not laminates. 

[Mayner]

3 minutes ago, 228RiverOwenboy said:

They look fairly similar to the laminates numbered 2419-2422 (With 2422 and 2421 being preserved as fair as I know).

 

Credit: Dawgz  (Wikipedia)

While the early CIE coaches and the Laminates are similar in overall length and general styling there are a lot of structural and detail differences between the two types.

The end profile and paneling detail of the earlier coaches including the Buffet Cars is completely different to the Laminates.

The earlier coaches were narrower with an almost upright profile above waist height, the Laminates were wider 10'3" with a tear drop end profile, not unlike the Craven coaches.

Older stock including the Buffet Cars tended to stick out like a sore thumb in trains made up of Laminate or Craven coaches because of the different end profiles.

The cover slips on the panel joints are quite noticeable on the older stock with vertical cover slips above the windows, the Laminates were built using composite Aluminium, insulation (asbestos?) and ply panels.

Preserved CIE 1953 Side Corridor Second(Standard) Class Coaches GSRPS Tralee 1993. The majority of pre-Park Royal & Laminate stock was withdrawn in the early 80s following the commissioning of the DART and introduction of the 1st Batch of MK3 Coaches

CIE Diagram 64 Seat Laminate, Tear drop end profile, Vertical cover slips between panels, small windows toilet panels.

To add to the confusion CIE rebuilt some 64 seat Laminate coaches using traditional coach building techniques during the late 70s-early 80s with a different paneling/cover slip arrangement to the original laminate stock!

When is a Laminate not a Laminate?

 Laminate 1463 Mullingar 1981-2 withdrawn following a minor shunting accident, the coach was repaired and entered service with the RPSI during the 1980s

Rebuilt using traditional timber framed carriage building techniques paneling and cover slip detail different to the original Laminates.

Worsley Works introduced kits for the 64 seat and main-line brake end versions of the Laminates during the early 2000s, I produced etched side overlays for the earlier CIE coaches "shrunk to fit" the Dapol 60' Stanier coaches, at the time it was not viable to produce a full kit for the older type of coaches due to the multitude of types and relatively low level of demand.  

 

[flange lubricator]

1 hour ago, Mayner said:

 

To add to the confusion CIE rebuilt some 64 seat Laminate coaches using traditional coach building techniques during the late 70s-early 80s with a different paneling/cover slip arrangement to the original laminate stock!

When is a Laminate not a Laminate?

 Laminate 1463 Mullingar 1981-2 withdrawn following a minor shunting accident, the coach was repaired and entered service with the RPSI during the 1980s

Rebuilt using traditional timber framed carriage building techniques paneling and cover slip detail different to the original Laminates.

I would go so far as to say that the vast majority were rebuilt in that manner by the early eighties when they were withdrawn, I worked on some of the RPSI ones in the mid eighties and as John says they were laminates in name only . 

[Mayner]

10 hours ago, flange lubricator said:

I would go so far as to say that the vast majority were rebuilt in that manner by the early eighties when they were withdrawn, I worked on some of the RPSI ones in the mid eighties and as John says they were laminates in name only . 

Some nice photos of both 64 and 70 seat Laminate Coaches showing the distinctive original laminate panel and cover slips in josefstad 1 Jan 2019 post about half way down Page 2 of ECMs excellent thread on building a Laminate coach with the assistance of Worsley Works scratchbuilders parts. 

As they say the history of CIE coachbuilding at Inchacore is complicated.

 

 

Edited August 5, 2023 by Mayner

[228RiverOwenboy]

12 hours ago, Mayner said:

I believe there's one of these at the Sligo Folk Park...