The 1960s

[hexagon789]

28 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

It was just a throwback to when there was 1, 2 or 3.....

The GSR abandoned second class in the 1920s, soon after its inception. Narrow gauge lines abandoned it early - although few ever had it to start with. The GNR did a few years later. But the NCC kept the three-class system until the late 1940s!

I think most of the continental European networks kept 3 classes into the 1950s, some possibly longer. I think Germany even had four classes - fourth being on rural branch lines consisting of unpadded wooden bench-equipped four wheelers.

The trouble with having too many classes is having to provide for catering facilities on longer journeys. I know that in Scotland the LNER had composite diners on the Edinburgh-Aberdeen expresses where seperate first and third diners would have been overkill but trying to provide for three classes must have been interesting for the NCC. Did they have any such thing as a tri-composite diner?

[Buz]

19 hours ago, TimO said:

Of course, too busy looking for a lever. Also I thought vac brakes had a ‘string’ to pull but I don’t see one. 

The "string' may be hard to see or may even not show in the picture its only a thin steel rod with a loop at the end to pull.

modern air brake stock has them as well.

It breaks the vacuum or equalizes the pressure depending on brake type so the wagon can be shunted.

Where trains where mixed fitted and loose stock the general rule was fitted stock at the head of the train as always there where exceptions.

When fitted stock came in loose stock was fitted with a train pipe only so be wary a vacuum pipe doesn't necessarily mean the wagon has continuous brakes.

regards John

 

Edited September 12, 2020 by Buz

[Buz]

5 hours ago, hexagon789 said:

I think most of the continental European networks kept 3 classes into the 1950s, some possibly longer. I think Germany even had four classes - fourth being on rural branch lines consisting of unpadded wooden bench-equipped four wheelers.

The trouble with having too many classes is having to provide for catering facilities on longer journeys. I know that in Scotland the LNER had composite diners on the Edinburgh-Aberdeen expresses where seperate first and third diners would have been overkill but trying to provide for three classes must have been interesting for the NCC. Did they have any such thing as a tri-composite diner?

Don't travel European 4th class NO seats the third class had the hard wooden benches.

regards John

[Buz]

Hi jb171achill

The coaches from the Bachmann Irish set the two tone green could they be run with the single stripe black and orange MM craven coaches.

I have been offered one and don't want to have another train to try and build one at a time is enough.

regards John

[hexagon789]

3 hours ago, Buz said:

Don't travel European 4th class NO seats the third class had the hard wooden benches.

regards John

At one point perhaps, but I have a book on European railways with a diagram of a German 4-wheeler fourth class vehicle with 3+3 wooden bench seating. The vehicle even has two centrally positioned toilets. I'd assume the vehicle dates from the 1920s, possibly the 1930s.

[TimO]

Thanks for all your replies on the cattle wagon. Does anyone know when the cattle wagons were converted to vacuum brake? Were they all converted before cattle traffic ceased in 1975?

 

I originally thought the picture below was of a grain wagon but now I’m not so sure. To the left of centre just below the solebar there is a connection for a 3inch? air hose. There also seem to  be air pipe connections to the bottom of the hoppers presumably to fluidising pads. So was this a grain wagon or an early bulk cement wagon. Does anyone know?

 

[jhb171achill]

13 hours ago, Buz said:

Hi jb171achill

The coaches from the Bachmann Irish set the two tone green could they be run with the single stripe black and orange MM craven coaches.

I have been offered one and don't want to have another train to try and build one at a time is enough.

regards John

Hi Buz

OK, the first thing to remember is that these are (British) LMS coaches, using moulds presumably used for such things in the British market. they are unfortunately not even remotely close in appearance to ANYTHING which ever ran on the CIE system. To an Irish modeller, they ARE however of use to a UTA modeller - as they are very close indeed to several designs used by the NCC lines north of Belfast, right to the end of steam and into the early 70s.

But not CIE.

However, needs must. As many comment here, over and over again, and very rightly so, we are spoiled with the great and increasing amount of ready to run Irish stuff now. But with a small market, and pre-1972, a BEWILDERING array of all sorts of non-standard designs of locomotives, carriages and wagons, even if the market was huge, IRM, Murphy, Provincial Wagons, 00 Works, SSM and all the rest would need to live to be 400 years old before they'd get through half of them.

The correct coaches to operate in the Bachmann set would be of an absolute multitude of types, for which it would even be difficult to get drawings to scratch-build, let alone buy off the shelf.

So, British repaints are the best realistic compromise.

Livery wise, the shades of green are correct, though the line below window level is far too thick and the "flying snails" are a bit too big, and the wrong shape. But I'm nit-picking here, although a rivet-counter will appreciate what I'm saying.

For the "two-foot rule", they are absolutely fine.

The cravens went into traffic in 1963 and were used mostly on main lines. Some old wooden carriages, like the model, DID still exist in traffic, and as other posts I have made will illustrate, green coaches were in use for a few years more. However, here we run into two problems.

1. Those carriages still operating in green were NOT in THIS livery; this is the pre-1955 darker green livery, same as used on green steam engines, station paintwork, CIE buses, CIE lorries and CIE-just-about-everything. Except, that is, passenger railway carriages and diesel locomotives! A handful of older coaches still retained a much-scruffyish older lined green until the closures around 1961, especially in West Cork - but anything green beyond that was the lighter colour.

2. Some old wooden coaches did work well into the 1960s, and few were still used on Dublin and Cork locals until as late as 1974. But these were repainted black'n'tan.

So, in answer to your question, the answer is "not really". Yes, some green ran with cravens when new. But this is the wrong green. Some timber coaches ran with Cravens - but they didn't look like these!

Hope that helps, and nobody died of boredom going through it all! 

[jhb171achill]

9 hours ago, TimO said:

Thanks for all your replies on the cattle wagon. Does anyone know when the cattle wagons were converted to vacuum brake? Were they all converted before cattle traffic ceased in 1975?

 

I originally thought the picture below was of a grain wagon but now I’m not so sure. To the left of centre just below the solebar there is a connection for a 3inch? air hose. There also seem to  be air pipe connections to the bottom of the hoppers presumably to fluidising pads. So was this a grain wagon or an early bulk cement wagon. Does anyone know?

 

By the time cattle traffic finished at the end of 1975, most of the stock of cattle wagons had been gathered in Cork for scrapping.  I cannot say for certain what proportion was fitted, but certainly there were many still unfitted. Some had been repainted brown after 1970 when the brown wagon livery appeared, but probably two-thirds were still grey. This may or may not suggest they weren't "modernised".

The wagon is a GNR van used for cement, I believe. Here, it has newly been repainted in CIE grey with appropriate logo, approximately 1963. Its GNR origin is evident from the tell-tale corrugated ends (also seen on the adjacent vehicle) and the "N" added to its GNR number. On the original of this pic you can also just about make out "G N" on one of the axlebox covers.

Edited September 12, 2020 by jhb171achill

[Mike 84C]

That GN cement wagon just about sums up what I like about Irish railways. Use what you have got to make a low cost vehicle, make do and mend, keep things going. It maybe does not look good to the public but it makes our hobby interesting.

[leslie10646]

To add to Mike's comment about Make do 'n Mend - after WW2, the West German Bundesbahn had many six wheelers (new bodies on old wooden ones?) - nick-named "Thunderboxes" I believe. Rightly so, as they were very noisy to travel in.

That said, I was delighted to clamber into one of them on a local train on the Rheine - Emden line and be hauled at a full SEVENTY mph behind a coal-burning three-cylinder Pacific. I understand that the B&CDR six wheelers were pretty wild at sixty mph, but these were a bit more modern and I suspect the Bundesbahn track was better in 1969 than the Bangor line twenty years earlier.

[Buz]

Hi Jhb171achill

Thanks for that  informative answer that makes it a definite NO for me I am no rivet counter but I do like a good resemblance which it seems that coach just doesn't have.

I would not have a clue where Irish steam is concerned something I will have to correct over time.

regards John

[jhb171achill]

7 hours ago, Buz said:

Hi Jhb171achill

Thanks for that  informative answer that makes it a definite NO for me I am no rivet counter but I do like a good resemblance which it seems that coach just doesn't have.

I would not have a clue where Irish steam is concerned something I will have to correct over time.

regards John

The "Woolwich" 2.6.0 in the set you mentioned is a nice little thing, and there were a small few of them which managed to make it just into the '60s.

To run behind it, the only thing ready to run right now is the silverfox coaches in green. Cravens didn't appear in traffic until literally about a month or two after the last steam engine pulled its last passenger train.

There are some nice steam-era kits for carriages from Studio Scale Models, and if you've the time to put in, Worsley Works.

For the late steam era, as well as laminates and Park Royals, the "tin vans" are again necessary. But also six-wheelers. To complete the scene, the BIG "missing thing" is AEC railcars, which monopolised many longer distance passenger trains from the early 50s to the mid 60s.

In the long term, if we get a tin van, 6-wheeler, and AEC cars, we've got the "grey'n'green" era as well wrapped up as the "black'n'tan" and "Supertrain" and later eras are now.

[BSGSV]

On 9/10/2020 at 10:43 AM, hexagon789 said:

In it there are a handful of named trains (3 in all), given 1962 is pre-Cravens I wondered what sort of stock both motive power and carriages one should expect to see on the Sláinte, Fáilte and Cú na Mara of this period or were these all railcars?

The first two were loco-hauled, as JHB says, the latter railcars with two portions, one each for Galway and Westport, splitting/joining at Athlone. This train was unusual in travelling via Portarlington, when the rest went via Mullingar.

On 9/11/2020 at 4:55 PM, hexagon789 said:

Now you've posted the correct date, I've no idea where I got my 1966 date from!

Interesting month to choose September, given most major changes generally happen with new timetables which are typically April/May/June.

Or in the case of First Class being rebranded Superstandard then new rolling stock.

Well, in fairness to JHB, that is the CIE date, and I've not seen similar for the UTA. CIE announced it was going to make the change earlier in 1965. I had thought end September/start October would mark the summer to winter timetable change.

Edited September 14, 2020 by BSGSV

[hexagon789]

6 minutes ago, BSGSV said:

The first two were loco-hauled, as JHB says, the latter railcars with two portions, one each for Galway and Westport, splitting/joining at Athlone. This train was unusual in travelling via Portarlington, when the rest went via Mullingar.

Thanks, did each railcar set have a buffet or only the Galway set?

7 minutes ago, BSGSV said:

Well, in fairness to JHB, that is the CIE date, and I've not seen similar for the UTA. CIE announced it was going to make the change earlier in 1965. I had thought end September/start October would mark the summer to winter timetable change.

That would seem logical.

[BSGSV]

On 9/11/2020 at 10:26 PM, jhb171achill said:

It was just a throwback to when there was 1, 2 or 3.....

The GSR abandoned second class in the 1920s, soon after its inception. Narrow gauge lines abandoned it early - although few ever had it to start with. The GNR did a few years later. But the NCC kept the three-class system until the late 1940s!

The GSWR retained three classes until the Amalgamation, along with some of the smaller companies, but the GSR move to two-class (1/3) early on. 

The GNRI kept three classes until 31/12/50 and, like CIE, changed the former 3rd to 2nd from 03/06/56.

 

[BSGSV]

2 minutes ago, hexagon789 said:

Thanks, did each railcar set have a buffet or only the Galway set?

The first named trains ran with the introduction of the Summer timetable on 13/06/60. The initial 09:20 Galway - Dublin and 18:50 return were formed 2616+1367+2422+2609 (Galway portion) and 2608+1361+2637 (Westport portion). 

[jhb171achill]

23 minutes ago, BSGSV said:

The first named trains ran with the introduction of the Summer timetable on 13/06/60. The initial 09:20 Galway - Dublin and 18:50 return were formed 2616+1367+2422+2609 (Galway portion) and 2608+1361+2637 (Westport portion). 

1361 and 1367 - Bredins?

So, no catering on that Westport section? 
 

2422 - one of the RPSI preserved ones!

[jhb171achill]

	Mods - how do I delete this post?

Edited September 21, 2020 by jhb171achill

[jhb171achill]

In the light of new and forthcoming releases of model locomotives from the 1950s period onwards, the following is to give details of what rolling stock was about during the various times these locomotives operated in the different liveries offered.

It might be added that for modellers, there is but one rule: it’s your railway, so if an “Enterprise”-liveried 201 hauling grey cattle trucks is your preference, that’s fine; and if you like steam engines and grey 121s hauling orange or ivory cement bubbles or Bell Liner trains, that’s all good!

For those who like me prefer to self-impose rules about historical accuracy, the following may be of assistance.

In each column, these are blanked out at times before the item concerned entered traffic, or after the last were withdrawn. Thus, for steam engines, while 1963 is the year the LAST of them operated in normal traffic (excluding the “Grand Steam Tour” in 1964), it doesn’t mean they were ALL in use until then. The 1977 date, for example, for the last G class is the date the last of them was withdrawn; the truth was that many had been already lying derelict at Inchicore for years.

Where a livery change is indicated, this represents the year that the first examples of the item concerned was painted this way. New liveries almost never happen overnight – there will be a period where a newly repainted loco or coach operates alongside one in the old livery. For example, by the time the last loose-coupled goods train ran in 1976, a good fifth of the wagon stock was still grey, despite the bauxite brown having appeared in 1970/1.

Another matter is when rolling stock was built over a period, first and last examples will have started life in different liveries; the first cement bubbles were grey to start with, but later repainted orange and grey – but the last ones went straight into traffic in orange and grey. I have tried to indicate this by adding this vertical line - | to indicated how long an old livery was still about after a new one was dreamed up. So, for example, a 121 class loco enters traffic in grey, but once the first one is repainted black’n’tan, the vertical line appears in that box until 1968, by which time it appears that the last one was repainted thus.

(I hope this makes some sort of sense).

Comments welcome; given occasional oddball exceptions this will not be an EXACT science in a few cases, but it’s certainly close enough. It is intended to show modellers what ran with what – or didn’t!  I'm sending this lot in two messages, as my computer doesn't like tables.

K E Y

Locos		Coaches   Always black chassis and ends; roofs either black or dark grey.   With black’n’tan livery, always black roofs, never dark grey.		Wagons   Always chassis and roof same colour as body. Roofs weathered quickly, often looking a nondescript greyish colour.   (For Ireland, “black chassis disease” is for BR and Hornby models!)
	Steam Engines – In 1955, grey except suburban tanks and main line passenger, these lined green. AFTER 1955 ONLY, while few steam engines were repainted, many of those that were, appeared in black. Last (very short-lived!) repaints in 1962 grey.	N / A		187M	From 1945 to the early 1950s, CIE carried on using the GSR wagon grey (same as LMS grey in Britain, or NCC). Flying snail logos were painted on, and both they and numerals were pale green, the same “eau-de-nil” as used on bus and carriage lining.
1955-56	Silver with light green logos and numerals	The only carriages which entered traffic in silver were the very first one – or possibly very few – Park Royals (very quickly repainted green for suburban use), laminates built 1955-7, and a few mail vans & earlier “tin vans” of LV, GSV & TPO varieties.   Some “silver” vehicles remained thus until black’n’tan came in – mostly some tin vans and postal vehicles.		1396	From the mid 1950s, wagon grey remained unchanged but logos and numerals began to be painted in white. “Flying Snail” logos are still painted.
1945-1955	“Standard” CIE dark green. Black & white lining, as with green steam engines.   Few steam engines were painted from the mid-1950s onwards. Of the few that were, I am unaware of any receiving a new coat of green. Existing green ones became disgracefully filthy. Of the few locos painted after 1955, some were a “new” all-black livery. The very last two newly painted, in 1962, were grey again.	Note: For carriages, this is out of sequence: this dark green livery was before the silver mentioned above…   On carriages, full light green lining above and below windows with light green “snails” and numerals. Black or very dark grey roofs, black ends. In the late 1950s, Cork repainted some secondary stock in a plain version of this colour with no lining and either no “snails”, or one, or two! Many narrow gauge carriages also had an unlined version, sometimes with no logo. On carriages, lining, snails & numerals always light green, never white – that was for steam engine lining….		14087   From 1963, as goods brake vans are being repainted, they gain the lighter grey colour. Shortly after, the yellow and black “wasp stripes” are introduced about the same time as the CIE “Roundel”, but on new vans only. Older ones are scrapped / withdrawn.	From the late 1950s, the shade of grey became much lighter, and the “flying snails” began to be stencilled rather than painted.   From 1963, the new “Roundel” logo began to appear, however, a good few wagons made it well into the 1970s still with “flying snails”.   New “H” vans after 1963 (and after 1965, the sliding-door “Palvans”) had roundels with a tan surround, rather than all-white. Other wagons retained white ones, or older “snails”.
1957-1962	Grey & Green Era:   Lighter green introduced in 1955 for carriages and new diesel engines. Took some time to replace short-lived silver paint on some locos and coaches, and especially mail coaches and generator vans.  On locomotives, this sometimes, but not always, carried a light green (not white!) waist line. “A” class locos had a light green “flying snail” but nothing else did, including G’s.	On carriages, the waist line was always present except on some six-wheelers, but in later days the “flying snails” were often omitted. Park Royals never had “flying snails” in any livery. Older dark green coaches, including six-wheelers, were repainted this way, so by 1960 almost all stock was like this, of all ages and origins from brand new to ancient.		11825	In 1970, wagons started being painted all-brown. The shade was slightly less reddish when new, than that used today, but much the same.   Obviously, no “flying snails” were ever on brown wagons, but all logos and lettering were white from start to finish. Since loose-coupled trains ended in 1976, by the time they did a good 20% of all wagons in use were still grey, and a handful still had “flying snails” to the end.
Locomotives: 1963-72 ___________   Non air-conitioned coaches inc. Cravens:   1963-1990s	Black & Tan Era:   This colour on the chart below indicates the versions of this livery WITHOUT any tan – thus all black with white flashes above cab windows. On both B113s, plus SOME (but not all) A & C class (but not B101s), yellow patches were added.   A, C, G611 & E classes could be in black with tan lines, or without any tan. In 1963, most new repaints from green had full tan sides which they would mostly lose for a few years afterwards. A & C classes were never again all-black after they got their GM engines 1968-71.	For carriages, there is but one standard here, which for all coaches featured here survived until they were scrapped, never having the “supertrain” livery. The exceptions were the cravens, which had an amended version with an extra orange line above windows and white below – but that’s decades after any black’n’tan or grey or green diesel was about the place – 1990 onwards. This table stops at 1980………		Fitted wagons: the very earliest four wheeled ones were standard grey, but repainted brown 1970 onwards.   There were a handful of exceptions in wagon liveries, but confined to departmental one-offs and the like.
1977 / 1978	Darker brownish-tan which the 071s had on delivery. Non standard and replaced at first repaint by normal orange-tan colour, plus correct version of CIE badge.	N / A
1972 - 1987	This is the “Supertrain” livery introduced in 1972	N / A This was introduced with Mk 2 air-con stock, which is too late for this table!

STEAM

B113

D

A         C         B101         G601         E401

K801

G611

E421

121

141

181

071

6-wheel passenger carrying

6-wheel full passenger brake vans

Wooden bogies (inc. non-corridor)

Bredin & 1950-54 CIE stock

Park Royals

Laminates

“Tin Vans” (LV & GSV)

Cravens

WAGONS

GOODS BRAKE VANS

1950

Mostly dark grey, some green but filthy, a few black after 1955 only

GNR Dark Blue

On delivery, non-std. CIE logo, also all white. Normal logos with tan surrounds added at first repaint, when shade of “orange tan” was also regularised.

1950

Light green “snails” & Nos.

1955

Silver with light green numerals & “Flying Snail”

Silver with light green numerals   No logo – “Flying Snail” on “A” class only

1955

1st silver

Some remained “silver”

WHITE “Snails” & Nos.

1956

1956

|

1957

1957

|

|

|

|

Rest mid green from new. No “Snail”

|

Lighter grey, white “Snails” & Nos.

|

1958

1958

|

|

|

|

until “black & tan” era

|

1959

| |

|

1959

|

|

|

|

|

1960

| |

|

1960

|

|

|

|

1961

|

|

Most black with just white upper cab lines, for most of the time. Some, esp. “G”, had tan bans at bottom. A few E421 had this in the early 60s, but most of their lives the “E”s were all-black

Grey & Yellow. Black’n’tan from 1965   Last grey c.1968

1961

|

1962

1962

|

|

1963

|

|

No CIE “Roundel”logo when new. Added after 1967.

1963

|

Black & Tan (original “single stripe”version). This was carried until about 1990. Upper orange line with lower white line was post-1990 (approx) only, but many had original livery almost until c. 1996). So no “waistline white lines” ran with grey or black’n’tan GMs!

CIE “Roundel” replaces “Snails” – but only VERY GRADUALLY

1964

All steam withdrawn

All-black with white line at cab tops. B113/4 with yellow ends

|

|

None of these  3 were vac braked, so not used on passenger trains

|

Not used regularly after c.’1965

1964

Last ones withdrawn 1963 in Cork

|

|

|

|

|

|

Black & Yellow

1965

1965

|

|

|

|

|

“Back-to-backs”,“H” Vans & “Palvans” ONLY have tan surrounds on CIE logo

“Wasp” stripes

1966

1966

|

|

|

|

|

added

1967

Delivered with CIE logos

1967

|

|

1968

1968

1969

1969

1970

1970

| 1970-76- new brown livery

|

1971

1971

|

1972

1972

|

1973

|

|

|

|

1973

|

1974

|

|

|

|

|

|

1974

|

1975

|

|

|

|

|

|

1975

|

1976

|

|

|

|

|

|

*

1976

|

Departmental trains only after ‘76

1977

|

|

|

|

|

|

( * Non standard dark tan when new)

1977

Modern world of fitted wagons (all brown)

1978

Exact date of last in BnT not known

|

1978

1979

Most OOU 1972/1973

Exact date of last in BnT not known

1979

1980

1980

[jhb171achill]

This hasn’t come out the way I intended! Any thoughts on how to put up a table like this on here?

I tried earlier on a different forum and couldn’t load it there at all.....

[hexagon789]

29 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

This hasn’t come out the way I intended! Any thoughts on how to put up a table like this on here?

I tried earlier on a different forum and couldn’t load it there at all.....

It looks okay from my end, just a bit squished if you view it in "mobile" rather than "standard" view. You've obviously put a lot of effort into it jhb and the detail is excellent. I myself find editing and producing tables on the web leads to mixed results sometimes!

[jhb171achill]

52 minutes ago, hexagon789 said:

It looks okay from my end, just a bit squished if you view it in "mobile" rather than "standard" view. You've obviously put a lot of effort into it jhb and the detail is excellent. I myself find editing and producing tables on the web leads to mixed results sometimes!

Ah! I was looking at it on my mobile. It's not much better here - must set it out better next time!!!

Thanks for your comments - I hope that it is of use or interest.

[Mayner]

On 9/15/2020 at 1:23 AM, jhb171achill said:

1361 and 1367 - Bredins?

So, no catering on that Westport section? 
 

2422 - one of the RPSI preserved ones!

1361 & 1367 were 64 seat Open Second's introduced in 1953 to run with the AEC railcars.  Early (up to 53) are best described as Mk2 Bredins as they used traditional coach building techniques (hardwood timber framing), conventional steel underframes and ran on GSR style bogies. The Open Seconds and Buffet Cars were completely new designs, though the side corridor stock was based on existing 1930s Bredin designs. The end profile of the 1930s Bredin and new CIE built stock was quite different, slightly wider and more upright in profile.

To complicate thinks further CIE started using Bulleid Triangulated underframes and Commonwealth bogies under coaches built from late 1953 onwards including 2422.

In short CIE built 3 distinctive designs of main line coaching stock in the 1950s there was no such thing as a Standard CIE coach during the 1950s.

In the 1950s AEC railcars worked the most prestigious main line passenger services, with steam and later diesel working the (slower) heavier mail and perishable trains.

Westland Row-Galway/Westport services were dieselised in 1953?  with a single return railcar daily a 4 coach train with 2 power cars and 2-1904 Brake Second Opens (fitted with driving cabs) which divided at Athlone.  

The train was strengthened to 6 coach the following season with 4 powered cars, an open standard and a buffet. The 4 car set with buffet running to Galway, the 2 car railcar to Athlone, this seems to have been the standard formation for the Cu-na-Mara up to the late 1960s, when the Westport connection operated as a through train to and from Dublin.

AEC railcar sets could be made up to 8 coach formations with gangway connections throughout 2 2600 Driving Cars, 2 Powered Intermediates and four coaches, the 8 coachs sets appear to have been used on Kingsbridge-Cork and Tralee  express trains.

Some of the Powered Intermediates were rebuilt from Inchacore built AEC cars and were slightly higher than other stock, giving these sets an up and down roof profile.

[iarnrod]

That's an amazing piece of reference material. I was actually browsing IRFN over the last few days to try and get an understanding of what ran when and in what livery as regards the 1950-1970 period, but you have saved me the trouble now. Many thanks for your efforts.

One question though, what does the numbers in some of the panels refer to e.g. 187M, 1396 - is it a paint code?

Perhaps this post or thread should be stickied for future reference on the forum.

[jhb171achill]

2 hours ago, iarnrod said:

 

One question though, what does the numbers in some of the panels refer to e.g. 187M, 1396 - is it a paint code?

Perhaps this post or thread should be stickied for future reference on the forum.

Thanks for your comments, Iarnrod.

I should have made that clear - they’re meant to be fictitious wagon numbers!

The one ending in “M” would be of former MGWR origin.....

[patrick]

Sixties action recently posted on You Tube

Edited September 27, 2020 by patrick

[Mayner]

Interesting the down Sligo? Goods with cuts of tank wagons  (& new car deliveries) marshalled in the center of the train in a similar manner to the rules for marshalling steam hauled good trains.

The majority of loose coupled goods trains had banking assistance with a C or E Class loco from the North Wall yards to Liffey Junction or Glasnevin Junction & Kingsbridge Goods to Cabra and up the Gullet to Inchacore. 

Does anyone know if banking assistance was provided to Clondalkin or Clonsilla?

 There is a photo of a 1930s photo of ex-GSWR 213 Class 0-6-2T banking a southbound goods past Inchacore Works in Donal Murrays GSR Irish Railways Pictorial album. The four members of the 213 Class were introduced in the early 1900s as heavy banking transfer locomotives, two were converted to tender locomotives for slow heavy main line freight work in the Waterford area, the unaltered locos appear to have continued in their original duties as heavy banking transfer locos in the Dublin area until withdrawn in the late 1940s.