Midland Great Western mail train

[jhb171achill]

12 minutes ago, Broadstone said:

Richard, the engine is a J15 that I built from the SSM kit over 30 years ago. Seen here alongside my S Scale model of an earlier J15. The 7mm one generally needs restoration, detail, the correct wheels and a new chimney.

That is an absolutely superb model. First model I've seen in the 1890s version of GSWR lining - very intricate, brilliant job all round.

[David Holman]

Two beauties! The 7mm model sounds like a nice refurbishment project, not least because it compares so well with its smaller sister.

 Both of course deserving of layouts to run on...!

[Broadstone]

Thanks Gents, much appreciated! Yes, what scale next? I can only do one layout by the way but it will certainly be  MGWR with a bit of GSWR.

[Galteemore]

Look forward to whatever you produce Paul. I think the S in S scale really stands for ‘scratch building’ - it’s hard enough tracking down Irish stuff in 7mm never mind S ! It’s a fascinating scale though and your work is most inspiring. Kilbrandon brings real colour and life to those old monochrome photograph scenes we all know from Welch, Lawrence etc. Any chance of a close up of your Kerry Bogie pls? ! 

I have seen Arigna Town as was in the flesh and loved it. But David’s backdating process is proving most interesting and the old liveries, which are out of living memory now, are really beautiful. Ballisodare station would have been wonderful for train spotting c1905 with a veritable rainbow of colours on show! 

Edited February 25, 2021 by Galteemore

[Broadstone]

5 hours ago, Galteemore said:

Look forward to whatever you produce Paul. I think the S in S scale really stands for ‘scratch building’ - it’s hard enough tracking down Irish stuff in 7mm never mind S ! It’s a fascinating scale though and your work is most inspiring. Kilbrandon brings real colour and life to those old monochrome photograph scenes we all know from Welch, Lawrence etc. Any chance of a close up of your Kerry Bogie pls? ! 

 

Thanks Galteemore. Here is a photo taken by Paul Basson for British Railway Modelling when Kilbrandon was featured.

[Galteemore]

Gorgeous. I first encountered these as a child when I saw Drew Donaldson’s clockwork ones - in the layout that dominated his house ! I’d love to build one myself if I get my current scratch loco finished, although I have struggled with Inchicore’s curved footplate before on a kit. Mr Holman may well beat me to the D19 anyway!

Edited February 25, 2021 by Galteemore

[David Holman]

Fantastic pictures, thank you both! First met Kilbrandon at Allypally, towards the end of its exhibition life and only wish I'd seen it earlier and more often. Drew's engines really are something.

 A D19 is certainly on my wishlist, but so is Sprite and its pay coach, along with one of the early SLNCR 0-6-2Ts, a C class diesel and the Castlederg 2-6-2 on the CVR. Don't suppose anyone is likely to do a kit, let alone rtr of one of these soon!

[David Holman]

Getting there

 With the addition of the chimney, dome and cab roof [the latter albeit not fixed and unpainted], the little 4-4-0 is finally taking shape. The list of things still to do is still quite lengthy, but Wolf Dog is certainly starting to look the part. Thus far, it has occupied exactly 100 days, so though I haven't worked on it every one of these, it must be pushing 200 hours of my time.

 Indeed, the dome and chimney have taken the best part of a week to turn on my little lathe, along with what seems endless filing to get them to sit on the boiler. The whistle is piece of 2mm brass rod, turned up in the drill, with some .8mm wire for the pipe. Nevertheless, it is really nice to get these fittings in place, because they certainly bring the loco to life. Speaking of which, it is now a runner too, with the motor gearbox fitted, together with the pick ups. This has also enabled me to add the brake blocks and secure the rigging.

 Today, have added the boiler band lining - a challenging process, considering I'd thought it would be pretty simple. Painted the smokebox black too, but it looked far too dense, so added some ivory white to soften it a little, while a bit of light weathering will eventually go on too. Smokeboxes were rarely clean on any loco.

 Stuff still to do includes the handrails, plus all the lining on the other side. Then there's the cab roof, glazing, lettering, coal in the tender rear coupling, vacuum pipe, etc, etc. No sooner do I tick something off the list, than I notice something else to do, but that's scratch building for you.

[Galteemore]

Wow. Time travel to 1900. This is just gorgeous. Well done on the lathe work too. Sir Henry’s photobombing is also noted ! And I know what you mean about that scratch building list..... 

Edited February 28, 2021 by Galteemore

[jhb171achill]

THAT IS OUTSTANDING!!!!!

[murrayec]

It looks stunning,

yes hours & hours! I stopped counting when working on models- just go till it's done.....

Eoin

[Sean Hogan]

Another masterpiece eoin 

[Noel]

Amazerballs! sublime

[KMCE]

Fantastic looking loco, David.

Detailing is one of those elements that seems to take as long as the building itself.

Well done.

[Broadstone]

Wolfdog is looking absolutely beautiful David! They are great looking locomotives and you have caught yours to perfection. There is that stage when all the detail takes so long and progress seems slow, but it's all going in one steady direction; you're on the home straight, the flag in sight!

[David Holman]

Nearly there

 The last week has been spent addressing a list of 30 odd items, that to begin with actually got longer, despite ticking things off. Many were fairly short and simple, like touching up paint work, or scraping paint off handrails. Some were an hour or so, like fitting the couplings, or adding lead sheet to the insides of the ash pan, while the rest of the lining took the best part of three days. Then there was coal for the tender and wiring the tender to the loco, adding the handrails, lettering and so on and so on. The MGWR crest on the leading splasher is actually SE&CR from a Fox Transfer sheet and is passable enough from normal viewing distances.

 At last it was time to reassemble the loco and do some test running. At first, all was well, but when I hooked on the tender, the loco was at first unable to pull it. Wolf Dog will need to haul at least three six wheel coaches, so this was a little worrying! A bit of investigation showed that the draw bar was fouling the bottom of the frames on the loco and the fall plate was also conspiring to lift the rear drivers off the track. After some fettling,  things have improved enough for the model to find its way around Belmullet, safely negotiating the points and single slip. However, I fancy it will yet need some more lead sheet over and around the drivers to increase its haulage capacity further.

 One of the last jobs was to make up the jack which sits on the footplate - a simple enough task now I have my little lathe. Just awaiting the name and number plates now, plus there are the three six wheelers to build of course. Such are the joys of railway modelling: always something else to do!

[Galteemore]

Where does one begin to comment? Simply spectacular. Really evokes Victorian elegance. I can identify with the exponentially growing list of jobs...... This has been a huge project for you, involving new techniques such as lathe work. It’s turning out incredibly well.

[Broadstone]

You are making a beautiful model of a beautiful locomotive David. It's a stunner and if I wore a hat I'd doff it in your direction!!

[jhb171achill]

3 hours ago, Broadstone said:

You are making a beautiful model of a beautiful locomotive David. It's a stunner and if I wore a hat I'd doff it in your direction!!

Shades of Monty Python....... "I doff my hat in your general direction"!

(I'll get me coat....)

9 hours ago, David Holman said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That is absolutely brilliant.

It's got me discussing an 00 gauge one with various folks here.............

How did you do the crest?

Edited March 8, 2021 by jhb171achill

[David Holman]

The crest is from a Fox Transfer sheet of South Eastern and Chatham coach insignia.

[MikeO]

David

A brilliant piece or workmanship. The end result really makes up for all the trials and tribulations involved in the construction process.

 

MikeO

[David Holman]

 After the [mostly] enjoyable marathon that has been the construction of Wolf Dog, the loco has been put to one side, until the number and name plates arrive. There are a couple of finishing off jobs still to do, but I'm saving them for now.

 So, on to the train!

 By and large, I do not have drawers full of unmade kits, but I did buy two Alphagraphix/Tyrconnel six wheelers for this project, along with a couple of six wheel chassis kits from the same source. One coach kit is a birdcage brake third, the other is an all third. At the moment, I may not use the latter, as I've always liked the idea of 'non-passenger' coaching stock. In addition, the Tyrconnel six wheelers are quite heavy and though my G2 2-4-0 will pull three of them, it is a bit of a struggle and I fancy it will be the same for Wolf Dog. Hence am going to leave the all third for now and scratch build a full brake and a TPO, using plastikard bodies, which will hopefully be a bit lighter. One of the reasons for the proposed line[s] to Belmullet, was the idea of Canadian Pacific Mail Steamers calling there, with parcels and letters then being hurried forward by rail, probably gaining at least a day over the sea route. Maybe passengers might have wanted to do the same, but I suspect that would require some first class accommodation, so instead this is very much just a mail train, with just two compartments [seating up to 24] in the brake third.

 So it was this that I started on first and in the space of four afternoons, or about 10 hours modelling, the kit is largely complete. The model is far from finished though, because coach kits required a lot of detailing and this is no exception. 

 I mostly just followed the instructions which in typical Alphagraphix fashion are not always conventional, but certainly work - a tribute to Roger Cromblehome's clever thinking. The first thing to me made is the birdcage compartment, after which the passenger and guard's compartments are tacked on either side. At first sight, it seems like a recipe for nothing to line up straight, but everything does, as long as it is assembled on a nice plate surface. The same goes for the chassis, where, rather than using a solid piece of brass or plastic as a floor to build the sole bars on to, instead, you make up a sort of ladder from, and then everything hangs from that. The only downside I've found is that this frame is a scale foot too short for the body, probably because this coach is 31ft long over the headstocks, as opposed to the standard 30 ft of most other Midland six wheelers. Easily sorted with a small fillet in each corner. The final part of the kit is the 'Cleminson' type chassis, which uses two lengths of 0.9mm brass wire to enable the three axle units to flex.

 So far, so good and it seems to roll well enough.

 

 

[Galteemore]

Excellent stuff. Got one of these to build so will be coming back to look at these photos! 

[Broadstone]

As ever, great stuff David. I have recently brought three of these Tyrconnel coaches and will also refer to your article when I come to build mine. Yours is going to be a wonderful train! 

[jhb171achill]

As always, it looks superb.

To your comment, "....In addition, the Tyrconnel six wheelers are quite heavy and though my G2 2-4-0 will pull three of them...." - that is perfectly appropriate, as it happens.

The most lightly-loaded passenger workings on the Midland - the Killeshandra, Ballina-Killala and (latterly) Clifden, Edenderry and Kingscourt trains were typically a six-wheel third, a six-wheel 1sts / 2nd compo and either a full brake or brake third. So for your proposed operational model, three are just right!

Also, you're obviously (and correctly, of course) using MGWR style kits - exactly the sort of thing I'd love to see in 00. Necessary for a 530-class, of course, as the first time they'd have seen a GSWR design coach would have been when they were in plain grey! Nowhere near as photogenic........

The only kits produced in 00 scale seem to be GSWR types, and the forthcoming RTR six-wheelers are also close to one of the GSWR designs.

Really superb stuff as always!

[KMCE]

On 11/3/2021 at 7:42 PM, David Holman said:

brass wire to enable the three axle units to fle

I really like that chassis solution.  Very clever in its execution - it should allow quite tight curves to be negotiated.

I might borrow that idea for some 6 wheelers in the future.

 

Lovely work as always.

 

Ken

[David Holman]

 A slight change of plan with the make up of the mail train - I'd been seriously considering making it an all parcels train, but in the end decided to go on the 'traditional' route, with a 1st/2nd composite, an all third and a passenger luggage brake van. This means the centre birdcage brake third is probably going to end up working in my 1950s period. So, what I've done is to repaint my 1950s composite in what I hope is a reasonable representation of MGWR brown - and await, with baited breath as to whether it passes muster! It is a Hycote Ford Russet Brown, by the way. Being back dated, the coach roof needs altering to include the lamp tops and the glazing still needs to be put back, but couldn't resist posing it with the D16.

 Meanwhile, have made a start on the 'passenger luggage brake van'. This is a scratchbuilt, plastikard body, which will eventually go on a standard Alphagraphix chassis. The vehicle itself is No 80, which has a birdcage roof on one end, rather than the centre and am using IRRS drawing No 43 which shows it had a mail compartment at the other end, with luggage in the middle. Not sure whether this means it had equipment for picking up/dropping off mail bags on the move, so would be grateful for any info on this, please. It certainly appears so, as the mail door is both inset and inward opening. However, I certainly won't be disappointed if I don't have to make the gear! The prototype seems ideal for my Belmullet line, with the train as a whole able to cater for all passenger classes, mails and a fair amount of luggage space.

 Construction has followed my usual practice of a 20thou outer skin, over a 40 thou inner, with strips of 40 thou at waist and cantrail level to enable the lower tumblehome. Microstrip deals with the panelling.

[Galteemore]

Great work David - nice example of the ‘Jenkinson technique’ in practice 

[Noel]

Sublime craftsmanship. Really neat and precise. The whole ensemble will look fabulous on your layout.

[David Holman]

Chipping away at the mail train coaches this week, plus a bit more pondering on the make up of the train. The first picture shows the current plan, which is to have the birdcage brake third at one end, the PLM at the other and the 1st/2nd composite in the middle. 'Rails to Achill' shows a J26 shunting a centre brake from one end of the train to the other at Achill, so presumably they preferred to have the brake van at the rear? This would be rather complicated at Belmullet, and while it would be an opportunity to use the station pilot to shuffle things around, at the moment, am going with a brake at each end to keep things simple.

 Of the coaches themselves, not too much work needed on the Composite, just replacing the glazing, plus changing the roof to have oil lamps. For the brake third, there was the glazing [some of it involving complex shapes, plus the roof details. As for the PLM, this needed W-irons/springs [whitemetal], Markits buffers and door handles, plus roof and glazing. The oil lamp tops still need adding.

 As for the paint job, as already mentioned 'Rover Russet Brown' has been used for the body, while the under frames still need painting black on all three vehicles. However, am still pondering over the lining. There's not a great deal of information I can find - thus far is that it was 'gold', though exactly where it was applied is not clear. The Dargan Royal Saloon offers some hints and I'm working on the idea that the panelling was picked out on the waist line, but whether anything else got treated have no idea. The plan is to use a gold gel pen to do this and you can see a couple of panels so treated on the composite. Any thoughts/info welcome, please!

 

[Galteemore]

Gorgeous. Like something off an F Moore postcard.

[Mayner]

Its an impressive looking train and great example of how you do not need a lot of rolling stock to look effective in O Gauge.

I hadn't seen a photo or a drawing of the 6w MGWR mail-luggage-brake before a 3 in 1 vehicle like the Branch Line Brake 3rds with raised look outs. Its an excellent model especially if you used the GA in the IRRS MGWR compendium which is so faded to be almost illegible.

The only thing missing from the train is a MGWR Meat/Fish van to transport the freshly caught catch to the Dublin & Billingsgate Fish Markets. 

[David Holman]

That's the one, John and as you say, not easy to interpret. Took a lot of studying under a magnifier to work out what was going on, though Des Coakham's book on broad gauge carriages has a picture of a stores van that looks like it may have started life as something similar, so was very helpful. Indeed, the DSER mail van bodywork wasn't a million miles away either.

 Unfortunately, don't have room for a fish van in this train, which is 42.5 inches long and the fiddle yard is only 43. Wolf Dog is very tight on the turntable too. However, have always liked non-passenger rolling stock and built a fair bit over the years. When the club can open again, I have a B17/3 (Nottingham Forest), which looks very nice at the head on an eclectic mix of what was known as a 'stock train' - bogie and four wheel parcels, fish and standard vans, plus a couple of six wheel milk tanks. Lovely!

 

[David Holman]

Throwing myself on the mercy of the court!

Have started trying to do something with the lining and lettering of the coaches & have to say, it is proving challenging for a number of reasons - mainly to do with what might be right.

 Thus far, have tried using a gel pen on the panelling. Not too difficult to use, though I fear the ink is water based, so will have to be careful when handling. Whether this is correct or not, I have no idea, but let me know what you think, please. For me, a bit of lining certainly lifts the overall 'brownness' of the vehicles.

 As for lettering, this is proving a real headache! The PLV has the MGWR letters done from an LSWR sheet, with the G applied by hand via a dipping pen with the gel pen ink rubbed on the nib and then a small degree of shading from an 02mm black marker. Hmm...

  The rest is likewise cobbled together. 'MAILS' is applied by hand, as above, as is the 'VR' logo [remember, you good folk were still part of the British Empire then - though not for long!]. The two middle doors should actually read 'Passenger Luggage', though I've substituted 'Luggage Compt', while the guard's compartment just reads 'Guard'. Both of the latter are Fox SECR waterslide transfers. Trouble is, these are gold, shaded red, while the others are gold, shaded black...

  As for the passenger and brake coaches, need to know whether the class was indicated by word or number, though have the impression it may be the latter. 

 So, will await opinions with baited breath! Over to you...

 

[murrayec]

It's looking great David,

If the lining is water based a spray over of lacquer/varnish would seal it for handling.

Eoin