jhb171achill

Looks fantastic! Until 1974 or so, a few old wooden relics could still be seen rattling around on summer excursion days on the DSER / GN section round Dublin, and in Cork. As an aside, I think that the very last stock in service still in green would have been about 1966/7 at the latest. There was one GNR coach still brown in 1966; it became black'n'tan straight away, never having been green. This was former brake second open No. 114, now at Whitehead. It was the last coach in GNR livery in traffic. I love this layout - it's so full of atmosphere.

That's a great conversion job! Excellent work.

Excellent idea - but beware! The bauxite liveries on both are entirely inaccurate at all levels! First, the H van. Neither these, nor almost any other Irish wagons had black chassis. The shade of bauxite on both is far too reddish, though some of this is due to the fading qualities of modern paint - not to be confused with the fading of older paints. It should have a brown chassis and drawgear, as well as body, and roof. 1 out of 10: the lettering and logo are as correct as you'll get. Now, the plough. In GSWR days, as per markings, these were either all black or later, all a very dark grey like loco grey. (Indeed, logo grey might have been derived from this; "normal" wagon grey, which is lighter, came roughly post-1915. If grey, then grey chassis too. The GSR and CIE painted them ALL wagon grey - again no black chassis, and most certainly not a white roof! After 1970 or so, CIE and then IE painted them all brown - yet again, chassis and all. Never were they anything remotely like the above. The more reddish shade of brown seen nowadays is a post-1995 or thereabouts invention. One or possibly two of these were heavily rebuilt and survived into the post-1990 yellow era. Yes, roofs and the lot were yellow. Black chassis are a Hornby train set invention, and are only appropriate for BR modelling, where wagon chassis WERE often black. Unfortunately, this incorrect livery detail has been widely copied in Irish preservation, where - unfortunately - between Cultra, Whitehead and Downpatrick, correct liveries on locos, coaches and goods stock alike are (at last count) outnumbered about three to one by incorrect liveries. For modellers seeking accuracy, this is indeed a great shame.

Have you modelled the empty mars bar wrapper I threw into an empty ballast wagon once? :-)

Aha!!!! The new heading has a bubble, a ballast, and space to the right of it for - more new stock????? Answers on a postcard.....

Scandalous vandalism on the part of the then Stormont Government.

An absolutely superb job! Even the numerals on the buffer beam set it off perfectly .

Anyone having problems? Top right log-in button won't work, whether I try to store it or not. In order to log in, I have to find a thread that I know I've posted in, then click on a post I made in the past, then look up "previous posts" for myself, and THEN the login screen appears, already populated with jhb171etc and password!

'Tis a K1 class.....

Passenger Train Formations – CIE As a result of several recent conversations, it occurred to me that the random nature of train formations in the recent past is something which occasionally comes up. Today’s enthusiast has been used to some forty years where train formations are entirely of a single uniform type of stock. This was not only rare in the past, it was almost unknown in day to day service – even when the 800 class were introduced. The modeller of anything prior to 1972 might be interested in what follows – simply an absolutely random selection of ordinary everyday trains from photos taken between the mid 1930s and mid 1960s. This will give a snapshot of typical train formations in the grey’n’green and black’n’tan eras. An absolutely uniform row of anything is, in all reality, unrealistic from that era! 1959 Dublin suburban, steam, hauled MGWR 6w 2nd, MGWR 6w 1st (now downgraded), DSER 6w 3rd, DSER bogie brake 3rd, 2 x GSWR bogie 3rds, MGWR full passenger brake - unusually for then, still with birdcage. 1934 Cobh; probably up mail GSWR high-roof composite, GSWR low roof brake 3rd, GSWR low roof 3rd, GSWR high-roof coach, and a mail van of some sort at the back. All bogie. 1930 Achill MGWR 6w full passenger brake, MGWR bogie tricomposite (now 1st / 3rd) 1952 Clondalkin; down night mail GSWR bogie mail van, unidentified (prob GSWR) 6 wheel mail van, GSWR low-roofed bogie 3rd, Bredin, early CIE Bredin lookalike, an old wooden brake bogie, plus what looks like another low roofed bogie 3rd after it. A few four wheelers bring up the rear; the photo isn’t great, but I think they are horse boxes! A 400 class up front. 1957 Skirting Killiney Bay – local from Bray Park Royal, Bredin, Park Royal, GSWR non corridor bogie brake 3rd, GSWR low roofed third. This is the ONLY train in this selection so far with more than one coach of the SAME type! Rathpeacon, 1951; up train Ancient 6w full brake – looks GSWR, GSWR 1924-series high-roofed composite, high roofed GSWR 3rd, low roofed GSWR third, and a low-roofed coach at the end – looks like a 1901-5 type GSWR type. At the far end, a six wheeled brake of some sort. Easter 1956, and 802 is lifting the following out of Kingsbridge with the down mail: Heavily rebuilt 6w mail van – looks GSW by origin, but could possibly be a GSR rebuild of an MGWR type; GSWR corridor composite (I think), low roof GSWR third, high roof MGWR, low roof GSWR, the next one is GSWR but I can’t make out what it is, then a Bredin, then a six wheeled van. Mallow, 1956, up train GSW high roof 3rd, two old GSWR mail vans each of a different design, brand new laminate, Bredin, an old wooden coach I can’t make out (possibly a dining car), several vans and a six wheeled passenger brake. Dungarvan, 1961 B101, Laminate, GSWR high-roofed 3rd, GSWR low roofed, another GSWR low-roof of a different design, and what could possibly be a GNR wooden bogie, possibly GSWR. And finally, U class 197 arrives in Amiens St from Howth with a mix – all now in CIE green – of a GNR brake 2nd, a GNR 2nd, a GSWR third and I can’t make out the last one with the engine smoke. Finally, finally, we’re into black’n’tan diesel days; the following are all a combination of random photos and memories of mine from between 1968 and 1974. 1. An “A” with a tin van, suburban Bredin, main line Bredin, Park Royal & Laminate. There’s another van – probably a heating van. 2. One old wooden GSWR bogie brake, Park Royal, Bredin, Craven and tin van. 3. Park Royal, Laminate, Bredin, and three wooden bogies, no two the same, but all GSWR. 4. And finally, one more with more than one the same! First, B150 leaves Connolly in 1973 with a tin van, Park Royal, Laminate, older laminate, two Park Royals, laminate and a van at the end of some sort. Next, in 1974, leaving Tralee, we have a 141 hauling three laminates of two designs, one Craven, one full parcels / mail brake (GSR / early CIE?), a wooden GSWR bogie and a BR genny van. I have often commented on the lack of uniformity of trains in the past, I wrote this intending to illustrate the point to assist modellers of the period, but I find myself surprising myself too – look how many trains above have even two of the one type, never mind a rake of them! I recall watching the 10:30 down Cork passing Port Laoise in 1977 or 8. There were ten bogies and two vans. I think there were two Cravens and two Park Royals or something like that, all separately amongst a hotch potch mix of various types of laminates and so on. One van was a 322X series, the other a BR….

Gentlefolks... I have been swopping a few emails with Allen Doherty and I thought the results would be worthwhile, in case anyone isn't aware (though many might be). My understanding is that he needs to do a run of 12 kits on one production run, but they DON'T all have to be identical. My question had been in relation to six wheeled coach bodies, but apparently he could do, for example, three sets of brake, 1st, 2nd and 3rd, totalling 12, on one sheet - plus the six wheeled chassis to go with them. Worsley already advertises various GSWR and DNGR six-wheeled coach kits. Just a point of info. A long-term omission has been CIE cattle wagons and MGWR six wheelers; both as absolutely essential as "H" vans and Bullied opens to the 1950-70 period. This could be the answer, though kit-making skills are required, of course.

Just looking at other posts here - some CIE locos (approx 25 according to the late Bob Clements) did get all-over black in late 50s, but 850 didn't. The grey livery, incidentally, was also all over, including inside frames, connecting rods, smokebox and chimney; not black smokebox as almost universal with other liveries.

What to do on a rainy Sunday....but browse the October 1896 W L W R working timetable, which I came across while sorting some sort of vague order into the chaos that stalks this room forever..... Three through goods trains per day traversed Limerick to Waterford, along with various short workings to the Junction. Passengers were catered for by trains leaving Limerick at 9.00am, 3.10pm and 5.45pm, with a mixed leaving at 11.00pm and arriving (passenger accommodation included) at 3.15 am. All four carried mails as well, apart from the 5.45pm; passenger services took typically three and a half hours, with 13 intermediate stops. Thurles - Clonmel had two passenger trains, a mixed and a goods; journey time was an hour and ten minutes. Limerick to Sligo had numerous short services such as a Tuam - Claremorris short passenger working, but the through trains were interesting. The day started with a goods trains departing for the whole length of the line at 2.30am. It had passenger accommodation as far as Ennis; one wonders how much patronage a train leaving at 2.30am from Limerick and dropping the drowsy passenger at Ennis at 4am might have had; all six intermediate stations were catered for too. Next, the 6.45am through passenger. Then came the down day mail at 10.40, which took until 7.15pm to reach Sligo, having (agonisingly?) called at all 29 intermediate stations, including a stop of an hour and 25 minutes at Athenry! Remember, this was mostly in six-wheelers with neither corridor or toilet. The 3.20pm mixed Limerick - Tuam was last. Reverse workings were much the same. Limerick - Killaloe was a WLWR line - it was only from Birdhill to Ballybrophy that was GSWR. Two passenger trains and one mixed comprised the service on this line, the journey taking fifty minutes. Foynes had one mixed and one passenger train per day. Both were connections from Limerick - Tralee trains. The Fenit line had a similar service, also with connections off the incoming trains from Limerick. The Limerick - Tralee line itself was the least busy of the WLWR's three main routes, with two passenger trains, a mixed and a goods in each direction. The journey took 2 hours and 17 minutes by the best service. On all WLWR lines, all trains stopped at all stations. Just picture those elegant 4.4.0s with their immaculately kept, but even then basic accommodation. For livery nerds (like me), locomotives and coaches were lined burgundy maroon, and goods stock was dark grey with white lettering. After only a few years, the GSWR would take over, though little would change until GSR days, when gradual neglect would see the system reduced to what it is today: ghost lines from Waterford to Limerick Junction, and Limerick - Ballybrophy, with the only bits used to any effect being Junction - Limerick and Limerick - Athenry. Hope that's of interest. (Mods: would a "historical" section on IRM be useful?)

I wonder have any of our number ever given serious thought to what should line the hedges and walls and fences of modelled railway lines? Driving back to Dublin today from Westport I took the long way round in order to take photos of the old Ballaghaderreen station and the museum at Kiltimagh station. I noticed, driving miles through today's pleasantly sunny country, the vibrant gorse and turf bog areas, the light brownish reeds contrasting with the surprisingly rich green grass, and the stone walls covered in multiple shades of mottled lichens and moss. Brambles abounded too; later, of course, the rich red of fuschia and purple heather will make an appearance. It struck me that accurate reproduction of these would very much enhance any layout. Any thoughts?

With the (very welcome) growing interest in the "Grey & Green Era", i.e. just before the "Black & Tan Era", which is now evident, I was thinking about what coaches would be suitable on such a layout. It is an excellent period for modelling - probably the best in fact - due to a mixture of steam and diesel, ancient wooden coaches of both bogie and six-wheeled varieties, and the sheer variety in both passenger and goods trains. The vast majority of both had barely two items of rolling stock of the same type. We're looking at the late 1940s through to about 1963, when steam ended on CIE. The UTA (also with grey wagons and green coaches!) was just as diversified, with the added interest of a motley fleet of railcars of many different types, including some one-offs like former NCC No. 1 (now at Whitehead). My curiosity was aroused by Noel's old repaint of an elderly Triang coach into black'n'tan, featured here recently, and Mike84C's article some time ago about converting two old Hornby "Thomas the Tank" carriages into a very credible version of a GSWR six-wheeled first. Clearly, a great variety of coaches is necessary to create an accurate look for the period. The UTA aspect is easier, as there are now kits for GNR and NCC types of vehicles, plus AEC & BUT railcars. I am unaware of any MPD cars, but some varieties of this species can be made reasonably convincingly by surgical procedures on some types of bought LMS coaches. CIE - someone really needs to produce a decent six wheel chassis! Manufacturers might comment? We have recently seen an excellent start made on Bandon, and an existing masterpiece of Ballyshannon and hopefully we'll see more of this era. So what can we use, other than the painstaking procedure of building actual models of actual carriages from scratch? In terms of "new" stuff, we have IFM's Park Royals and Bredins, and now there are several kits of laminates available. (The new IFM laminate brake is too late for the 1950s, but the full standard coach is just right). Worsley Works do the "scratch aid" kits for a GNR K15, which in the 1958-63 period could be seen on a number of lines on CIE, particularly the DSER. They also do several nice GSWR six-wheel kits, but you'd have to be a brass-proficient modeller to assemble them. (Dare we call such folks "brass necked"?) But I was in Mark's Models yesterday and noticed the Roxey kit, for about €10, of a grounded coach body. This appears to be modelled on either a GWR or Midland Rly (England) design, as it has curved-in ends. The only railway company in Ireland to design carriages like this was the WLWR, and many of their coaches didn't survive long into the 1901 amalgamation with the GSWR. But - with a Mike84C type job, two of these together could make a credible bogie coach, or a West Cork style short wheelbase 6-wheeler. These would NOT be accurate models of anything, but would look the part, with design features not unlike those of GSWR-era Inchicore. There are a number of Roxey plastic kits which can be "botched" to make models at least as convincing as those mentioned initially, which thus create the "feel" of the period without being necessarily strictly accurate. The beauty about such a system is that each model would be a one-off, exactly suitable for train make-ups of the day, where a brand new laminate might sit with an 1887 Midland six wheeler, a new tin van, and an old GSWR side corridor bogie. Curiously, while MGWR six wheelers saw out the six-wheel era (the last runs being in 1963), MGWR bogies did not fare so well despite being just as well built. However, a few were to be seen; there was a beautiful side corridor composite in West Cork - pure Broadstone - in the 1950s. So, sides of suitable donor vehicles are well available. We just need a good six wheel chassis of scale 30ft length.......buffer to buffer that equates to 128mm in 00 scale.