Ironroad

I did not know Kilroy Bros distributed model trains or toys. I remember them as distributors of electrical appliances, and specifically remember they distributed Bush Televisions. If memory serves me correctly they were located on Liffey St, on the site currently occupied by Marks & Spencer.

Thank you both. Colour of the doors certainly isn't an issue but the colour of the stone is another matter and inclines me to continue the search. again thanks

My father told me a similar story, in which the bull got wedged in the hallway of a house. The abattoir being positioned at the junction of Blackhorse Ave and the Nth Cir Rd was unfortunately probably too close the the cattle market itself and no doubt the smell may have caused animals to panic.

Yes I remember. There were a lot of horse drawn carts in Dublin but the CIE carts were well maintained and whereas most other carts had iron rims and made quite a racket particularly on cobble stones, the CIE carts with inflated tyres seemed very smooth and silent by comparison. CIE horses always looked bigger and in better shape than most of the other nags, an exception being the Johnson Mooney horses that pulled two wheeled covered bread vans stabled at the back of Fitzgibbon St. I used to make a point of passing the Blacksmith's in the lane behind Temple St Hospital on my way home from school and spent a lot of time watching him, the smell is still in my nostrils. I also remember processions of very high sided red coloured carts with two outside wheels that seemed to me to be be six foot in diameter rolling down Dorset St and Bolton St piled high with vegetables coming from Nth County Dublin to the City Market . I have a vivid remember a horse bolting on Mountjoy Square after a lightening flash and thunderclap. Yes there was a lot of horse manure on the streets but the worst of is was cow dung on the North Circular Road on Wednesdays. I think a few horse troughs still exist , isn't the one on Cavendish Row, near the Gate Theatre/Ambassador still there?

I'm resurrecting this thread because there's a question here that I don't think was answered. Does anyone know if there Is there any difference between the Bachmann Scenecraft models 44-063 and 44-252. The latter 44-252 was marketed as an Irish stone station building and was based on the old booking hall in Clonmel. This model is almost impossible to find, and any that turn up are very overpriced.. 44-063 was marketed simply as a stone station building and appears to be identical to 44-252, or is it?, for example is the stone colour the same? l think this model is still available from at least one retailer at an acceptable price but I'd like to be sure. Thank You

At some point in the future if and when I build another layout I will probably opt for Peco code 75. However, I'm currently using Peco code 100 points with Atlas code 100 flexible track. I prefer Atlas for two reasons; (a) it is easier to keep straight when laying straight runs and (b) the sleeper spacing is more realistic. When deciding on the track code keep in mind that older stock may not run on code 83 or code 75. Code 100 is fairly universal so if you have any Hornby Dublo favourites you want to run occasionally for sentimental reasons. you may want to stick to code 100.

As regards the logo used by the DUT and CIE, both my father and grandfather worked for CIE and they always referred to this logo as the "FLYING WHEEL" which is what it was intended to represent. It seems to me that referring to it as a "snail" is derogatory and it never ceases to disappoint me to see this perpetuated.

My thoughts exactly, wasn't sure what to do with them

Looks like a very interesting product that should work for the most part with rolling stock fitted with tension lock couplings with or without NEM sockets and it seems they cater to rolling stock that has NEM sockets that are not at the correct height. However, coupling is achieved with magnetic attraction which means stock must always be placed on the track with opposing magnetic poles which is a limitation I don't like. It means for example that ideally for complete flexibility in the use of locos, they should have the same polarity at each end which means that rakes of rolling stock should also have the same polarity at each end (opposite to that of the locos) which means one item of rolling stock in each rake will have the same polarity at both ends.

As someone relatively new to this forum I’m aghast at what I’m reading on this thread. Having backtracked, I can only find two posts on the question of where IRM is shipping from that might be construed as negative and while there may be sensitivities and history I’m unaware of, some of the reactions are over the top. I’ve seen some of this in other threads and it seems to me that if we were face to face we would not be saying these things to each other. Can we have a clean start? To put the shipping question in perspective, I’m located in the US and received an email from IRM on Thurs Feb 6th notifying me that the “Ferts” I ordered had been shipped. This morning I got an e-mail from DHL notifying that delivery would be by end of day Tues Feb 11th, .Just five days to deliver from the UK to US, by any measure that is excellent. I would also comment that it makes perfect sense for IRM to consolidate dispatch of its orders in the UK because it has long been obvious to me that shipping costs from Ireland (particularly postal charges) are exorbitant when compared to the UK. Example it cost 35.00 euro to ship a couple of “Ploughs” from Dublin whereas a similar size parcel from Hattons cost me GBP 6.50. A positive outcome of shipping from the UK might be a reduction in shipping costs.

Didn't realise what was I was starting when I advertised this, Anyway it was snapped up very quickly and is sold. I will respond to those that sent me PMs. Thank you for the interest.

I acknowledge this item was intended for the US market and contains a 110v transformer. which I can remove or can be discarded by a buyer in Ireland. While the coaches may not be true to prototype being Bachmann LMS coaches painted in Irish livery, the locomotive is an authentic model of a locomotive that was initially operated by the MGWR and later by the GSR and ultimately CIE. In the early 1920's the MGWR purchased kits of the Southern Railway's (UK) N class and built them at Broadstone, I believe more were later built by the GSR. When Bachmann produced a model of the Southern N class, Murphy models commissioned them to produce Irish versions and repaints of their LMS coaches to go with it. If there is a discrepancy in the accuracy of the Irish version of this model it is in the size of the driving wheels which were marginally bigger on the Irish K class than the British N class. Ultimately Bachmann marketed these items as a set in the US (I believe 4.000 sets were produced). It should be noted that the running numbers on the coaches sold in the US are different to those sold in Ireland.

New unused in original packaging, price 170 euro and available for collection in Dublin between Dec 30 & Jan 4. If interested please send me a PM thank you

I agree absolutely. Not unusual to see them running without loads and there is quite a variety of suitable containers already available, more I think that it would be practical to expect from IRM even in the medium term.. Sets of three flats in a box?? I'll commit to at least four sets immediately perhaps more depending on finances, anyone else? I would hope this could be a quick project since the leg work has been done already. Fran, B&I 40' and CIE 20' containers are worth repeating but beyond that I would suggest only containers unique to the Irish system not already available on the market e.g. CIE 40'. If you are to only supply flats complete with containers I would anticipate a long wait for things like Bell reefers, regular Bell 20's, Maersk, Nedlloyd, P&O, Hapag Lloyd, Evergreen etc. (in 20's and 40"s). In the meantime since these are already available from C Rail, those of us that want to run these on your flats are probably faced with purchasing more of particular containers from you that we may not really want and that may result in some resistance, but I’m not a marketing expert.

At least one local distributor McMullen Bros "Maxol was and is independent of the multinationals and I know they operated their own tanker trucks in the 1960's because I worked for a motor company in the late 60's that operated a filling station under the Maxol brand. However I cannot remember whether they used Bedfords but do recollect that Bedfords were very common in Dublin at that time. The following may be of interest;- From Maxol Company History at www.maxol.ie: The Maxol Group is entirely Irish-owned and controlled by the McMullan family. The original company – McMullan Bros. Ltd – was founded by William McMullan and registered in Dublin in 1920. The group has a network of 232 service stations and 22 Authorised Distributors, as well as Lubricants Distributors, and had a turnover €700m in 2011. The present Board of Directors comprises Max, Noel and Malcolm McMullan, all grandchildren of William. The Group Chief Executive is Tom Noonan. Although originally operating only in Northern Ireland, the company rapidly expanded throughout the island to become one of the largest and most respected family-owned concerns in the country. It is estimated that, today, it is the third largest oil company on the island of Ireland and the Leading Independent Oil Company in Europe (ISSI Survey 1997). William McMullan (the "Boss") between two of his sons, D.G. McMullan & C.J. McMullan Significant Landmarks: · 28th August 1887 – The birth of William G. McMullan, a Chemist by profession, who, along with his brother James, founded, what has become the Maxol Group. · 1914 – William became Manager of Wm. Preston & Co., a wholesale chemist, and persuaded his brother, James, to return to Belfast from London and join the firm as a commercial traveller for lamp oil (kerosene). · 1916 – The McMullan brothers, William and James, started their own oil business in Middlepath St., Belfast, from where they delivered paraffin oil by horse and cart. · 1918 – The brothers scored their first “coup” by bringing Benzol to Northern Ireland as a substitute for petrol, which was rationed as a consequence of The Great War. · 1919 – William and James, having been rebuffed by Esso, Shell and BP, entered into a supply agreement for petrol for all of Ireland with the Anglo-Mexican Oil Company (AMOC). The early deliveries to their customers were made in 2 gallon cans and conveyed by horse and cart. · 12th April 1920 – On the advice of their Solicitors and Accountants, who were concerned about the rapid expansion of the business, they registered a limited company, McMullan Bros. Ltd., in Dublin. · 1921 – “Partition”, the establishment of the 26 County, independent “Free State”, with the other 6 Northern counties remaining within the United Kingdom, resulted in the establishment of an office in Dublin managed by James McMullan. Rapid expansion necessitated the opening of new depots in most towns throughout the island of Ireland including six depots in Northern Ireland and eleven depots in the Republic of Ireland. · 1924 – The company’s main supplier AMOC, was taken over by Shell. · 1937 – McMullans became the sole Irish agents for Calor Gas and transformed the lives of people in households throughout Ireland through the provision of bottled gas for cooking and heating. The empty gas bottles were shipped back to Wales for refilling. · 1949 – The Northern Ireland Parliament (Stormont) passed an act to enable McMullans Ltd to introduce tankers with a 3,600 gallon capacity. · 1952 – McMullans terminated its arrangement with Calor and entered into a joint venture with Kosangas, an LPG company owned by a Danish family. This led to the establishment of McMullans Kosangas and the development of the first LPG bottling plants in Ireland, located in Belfast and Dublin. · 1965 – McMullans introduced blending pumps to Ireland. This enabled their filling stations to stock just two grades of petrol but combine them through the pump to produce seven different blend options.

Thank you for that, I did not start what is being viewed as a digression, but the issue is real and frustrating and my comments are not an attempt to divert attention from what promises to be a fabulous model. No problem but the point may be lost, I resent the inference that what I'm saying is bull**** I acknowledged at the outset that this may belong elsewhere, nor has it anything to do with Brexit.

Where

As was suggested this topic probably belongs elsewhere, but it is not bull****, it’s a serious matter that Irish model retailers need to pay attention to, and I for one would like to hear a response from that quarter. It would be very nice and desirable to support the local Sheriff but only if he deserves that support. Do we have a model shop in Ireland that could compare with long closed “The Model Railway Shop” (also known as Leinster Models) on Monk Place Phibsborough? Most here won’t remember that shop and won’t know what I’m talking about, but that was the real deal and worth supporting even at a cost. But I submit that we now have nothing like that on the island of Ireland and there is nothing to distinguish any Irish model retailer and accordingly they need to get real and that means getting seriously competitive if they expect to survive. No store has a given right to your business, loyalty is something that must be earned continually. And before I go further, why are some on here being derogatory to UK retailers by calling them “box shifters” Please be specific and name who you are applying this term to. I’d really like to know and understand what the perceived problem is, because my experience of UK model retailers over 50 years either over the counter, by mail order, or online has been superb. Generally their reputation for service and price has been the reason they can shift volumes. There is a significant difference in population between the UK and Ireland and accordingly it may be claimed that this places Irish model retailers at a disadvantage and that affects the range and volumes they stock. However, in this time of the internet and online retailing I cannot fathom why the Irish business model (pardon the pun) is so stuck in the past. Surely there exists an opportunity for Irish model retailers to compete and go head to head against UK model retailers for customers in the UK and elsewhere in the world for everything and anything (not just Irish interest). And before anyone says it, Brexit should not have a significant effect on this. Surely IRM are a perfect example of a business that understands the limitations of the market in Ireland by expanding to attack the UK market. The same principle holds for retailers who want to survive and be in a position to continue to offer service in Ireland. All of us have a pretty good idea of the quality of Peco, Bachmann, Hornby, Murphy Models, IRM, etc. etc., to the point that we can have confidence ordering online. So visiting a store for these products is a bit of an unnecessary extravagance unless one feels the need, or it’s really local and convenient to do so. I accept there is a risk of receiving a faulty or damaged item in the mail but in my experience that is an extremely low risk. And when visiting an Irish retailer why should a customer have to demean themselves by having to ask for a discount? I’m not comfortable with that. The asking price should be competitive end of story. Nor is a mere 2% difference in the VAT rates charged in Ireland and the UK, an excuse for significant price differences. The sad fact is that Irish model retailers are not at the races. So why is this and why are Irish model retailers probably failing to achieve their real potential in securing online sales of any significance outside Ireland and also losing local business to foreign retailers? At least five good reasons;- (a) Unrealistic pricing (their perception appears to be that they have no competition) (b) Limited range of products (c) Cost & Speed of Delivery (Hattons knock the socks off everyone on this) (d) No Marketing- they do not promote themselves and have limited horizons, they need to find a competitive edge (start with a niche area) and advertise. (e) Failure to zero rate VAT on sales outside the EU (IE they don’t sell net of VAT). In fact they are unresponsive when asked about this. So effectively they are pocketing this VAT (VAT is not payable to the Revenue on EU export sales) and they are also potentially causing the customer to pay local tax calculated on an inflated price that includes an improperly applied tax (double whammy). I’ve also had the experience of dealing with someone who as it turned out was not registered for VAT but was still selling at full recommended retail price and thereby profiting not just on the normal markup but also on the difference between VAT on purchase and the VAT on sale. In dealing with UK businesses, with the exception of one retailer and very small producers whose turnover is probably below the threshold for VAT registration in the UK, I have not had a problem on the VAT issue. But for what I’s worth for anyone outside the EU (and very shortly this may mean anyone outside the UK), the UK retailer I do have a problem with is Olivia’s Trains because they charge an administrative fee for the privilege of purchasing net of VAT and accordingly that is a store I avoid. End of Rant

Price is plummeting, my one is Gray

Absolutely there should be some sort of height gauge/barrier on approach to low bridges, let’s not forget that this problem has cost lives in the past (Clogh Bridge 1975) and will do so again. In this particular case Irish Rail’s response to the suggestion of a barrier was as follows “Given the location it would be more difficult to erect such a barrier, but there is ample signage alerting Drivers to the low bridge” Sounds like a cop out and there must be something more at issue perhaps beyond the control of Irish Rail. It maybe that the siting of such barriers would not be on railway property and co- ordination and co-operation is needed with the local authorities (how many of them??). New advance signs warning drivers of the barrier would be required. There is the question of who pays for erection and maintenance of the barriers (may need modification after road works for example). Right now the local authorities can sit on their hands when a bridge is struck but not so if a barrier is struck. I also suspect at each location there may be to a greater or lesser degree objections on the actual positioning and even the aesthetics, with the need for public consultation etc.. (This is not the 19th century) I’m actually of the opinion that legislation may be required mandating the erection of such barriers and that won’t happen until there is a fatality that gets a lot of public attention. But a campaign for such a mandate should start now.

This is all speculation (as probably is the price Hattons are projecting) but for what it’s worth here are some thoughts on the subject If Sterling plummets then the price of all UK imports of model railway items will be affected not just Irish models. So the hobby as a whole in the UK may suffer somewhat. As regards the pricing of the 121, ultimately I believe this is a matter for Paddy. As a supplier to the trade he should be deciding the recommended retail price in both Euro and GBP. Whether retailers sell below that price is a matter for them, Hattons very often do so. In establishing the selling price Paddy probably already knows what the retail price in Euro will likely be but cannot divulge this because doing so in the current climate may create an unrealistic expectation of the retail price in Sterling. Bear in mind that in all probably he will be paying his Chinese manufacturer in USD and prudence dictates that rather than gamble on the future value of the dollar, he should have a forward contract in place with his bank for the anticipated dollar outlays (IE locked in the exchange rate). Accordingly he should already have a very good idea of his costs. Whatever retail price is ultimately established for the UK market should have no immediate bearing on how much a buyer in Ireland will pay. The recommended selling price will be struck at a point in time and at that point the cost to an Irish buyer in Euro whether purchasing in Ireland or from the UK will be very much the same. However, should Sterling plummet subsequent to that point in time, the out of pocket cost in Euro to someone in Ireland purchasing from the UK should be lower. At that time the retail price will have been established and the retailers will already have been invoiced for their purchases (pricing is locked down and their margin is not affected). Since the 121’s will be released on a phased basis the chances are that the recommended retail price for the initial releases in the UK may not hold for later releases should Sterling plummet. There is another factor in all of this. Post Brexit and depending on the terms agreed or not between the UK and the EU, UK retailers should be free to treat sales to EU countries the same as they currently do to countries outside the EU and not collect VAT on those sales (zero rated). Of course in those circumstances someone in Ireland buying from a UK retailer would technically be liable to local VAT on importation. However, whether the postman will be knocking on the door to collect that VAT will depend on the ability and will of the Irish Revenue to collect. The logistics may make it prohibitive for them. Some of the above may not auger well for Irish model retailers and I’m all too aware of the need to support them. But it does seem to me that they could help themselves compete more effectively for international sales (outside the EU and this may include the UK in the future) if they would only clarify their policy on the charging of VAT on their websites. I’m based in the US and this is the primary reason I go to Hattons.

A symptom of being spoiled in the riches offered but it should be taken advantage of if at all possible, we may never have such opportunities again.. I would also expect a lull next year (hardly likely that there will be a repeat of two offerings such as the A's and 121's). So look at the J5's as being in next year's budget.

This is a fantastic opportunity for those of us lacking the skills to build from scratch. I like others paused at the price and like just about everyone else I've committed to a lot of purchasing this year. But the opportunity is too good to miss and it seems to me that this project will take twelve months or so to come to fruition so count me in. Tom

Thank you, that information is very helpful and your photograph would indicate there are other issues as well. again many thanks Tom