Mayner

A crowdfunded the promoters are uncertain about the level of demand and a project does not proceed unless it achieves specific funding targets, with pre-orders the manufacturer/commissioner is reasonably confident about the level of demand and has already decided to proceed with the project. A crowdfunded model may be more expensive than a speculative model produced by a manufacturer/commissioner because of a smaller production run and the additional cost of the crowdfunding platform fees, the manufacturer/commissioner are highly unlikely to undertake the design and production of the model unless they can make a profit on the transaction. The HO Auto Boxcar project is a good example of the likely uptake for a crowdfunded appeal for a small production run of a wagon or coach https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ho-40-single-sheathed-box-and-auto-cars-1929-70s#/updates/all.

Crowdfunding is reasonably safe when its set up through an established crowdfunding platform like "Kickstarter" rather than the company that is selling the models. Crowdfunding got a bad reputation in the UK when money raised by Crowdfunding was not ringfenced and apparently used to prop up an undercapitalised and failing business. If they believe there is sufficient demand for a particular model there is nothing to stop a member or members of this group setting up a crowdfunding appeal with the objective of raising €1.7m * to commission Murphy Models to do a re-run of the Bachmann B141/181 (10,000 locos @ €160 + 5% Crowdfunding platform fee based on Bachmann's min. production run. On a less ambitious scale a crowdfunding appeal could be used to establish of there is sufficient demand for a high quality rtr CIE Buffet Car or BR Heating Van to run with Murphy Models Cravens The appeal would need to raise approx €250,000 based on 3000 coaches selling at approx €80 + fee

A E3 (Class 47) appears to have been regularly allocated to Wexford in GSR days possibly for Rosslare-Wexford local trains and shunting, there is a photo of 49 shunting coaching stock at Wexford North in 1945. Apparently the 0-4-4Ts had a reputation for fast running working Cork-Cobh trains until replaced by the Ivatt 2-4-2T in the early 1900s and working Limerick-Abbeyfeale passenger trains into the 1930s. A daily Wexford-Enniscorthy mixed train operated in the GSR/CIE steam era usually worked by an ex-WLWR 2-4-0 290. 290 seems to have been based in Wexford worked a train to Enniscorthy in the morning, before taking up pilot duties (shunting) at Enniscorthy and returned in the late afternoon with the mixed to Wexford. There is a photo of the afternoon mixed at Macmine Junction in Donal Murrays Great Southern Railway Pictorial, 290 is hauling a single 6 wheel coach and a train made up mainly of open wagons. North Wexford line passenger trains also worked through to Wexford North in GSR & CIE days, running round and terminating local trains would have involved a lot of shunting with a single platform face and may have justified a tank loco as a shunter in addition to the locos working the scheduled passenger and mixed trains. The Wexford-Rosslare local passenger trains continued to operate during the Summer Holiday season with a B141 & CIE Bredin stock until the service was withdrawn in the late 1970s

Have you the Decoder specification or instructions? There is information on fitting stay alive capacitors to decoders that are not pre-wired for capacitors. https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/post/view/topic_id/13404/?p=2

The big question is whether there is enough demand for it to be financially worthwhile for Murphy Models to do a re-run of the B141/181 given Kader (Bachmann) minimum production run without re-tooling. Since producing the Murphy Models Kader (Bachmann) has focused on high volume manufacture for its own in house brands, ceased manufacturing for competitors in the US and UK market like Walthers and Hornby and moved away from low volume OEM commissions like Paddy Murphy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kader_Group. Kaders focus on its own brands lead to the growth of a cottage industry (by Far Eastern standards) of smaller factories with smaller minimum production runs than Kader who became OEM manufacturers for companies like Atlas, Hornby, Walthers and the large number of "Commissioners" & retailers who market limited runs of one off models such as Kernow, Hattons and Rails that appeared during the last 10 years. There is a possibility that re-tooling may be required for a repeat run of the small Bo Bos, as the tooling may have been made from a softer material such as aluminium rather than steel to keep the cost down for a limited production run for the Irish market and have become life expired, Kader may be reluctant to hand the tooling over to another factory without some form of compensation if they are unable or unwilling to produce a repeat run for Murphy Models.

A brief preview of the CAD work for the prototype of our first 4mm OO Gauge traditional Irish goods wagon a CIE 20T goods brake. The prototype is to verify that certain elements of the model are of adequate strength and to check the re-production of finer detail such before we progress to the production CAD work, including full rivet detail, buffers, brake gear, marker lamps, foot steps and the guards stove and bench seats. At this stage we are looking at the option of producing the model using 3D SLA technology with an abs material or vacuum casting using an abs resin material. We are looking at the option of producing the brake van as a rtr model or a CKD kit similar to the Trix Private Owner wagons of the 1970s. All going well we expect to have a preview of the prototype within the next two weeks.

The Lucan and the Clontarf-Howth tramways were probably the nearest thing in Ireland to an American Interurban a modern electric tramway linking a city with an outlying town. The right of way of the Clontarf-Howth line now forms the coast road between Dollymount and the Old Howth Road, the closure of the Lucan line in 1940 seems really shortsighted the DUTC having completely re-built the line to modern standards when it took over the narrow gauge Dublin & Lucan line in the 1920s. I wonder do any photos exist of the DUTC Clontarf-Howth tram as opposed to the GNR Hill of Howth Tram?

By co-incidence I just read Bob Clements article on the Armagh Disaster which questioned some of the technical aspects of the Railway Inspectors report and undermines criticism of the driver and fireman of the ill fated excursion train. I once met Bob Clements at an IRRS meeting in the early 1980s, as far as he was concerned J19s rebuilt with X Superheated boilers like 603 were really Southern engines. He later gave me a diagram and photos of the L Class following their early 1900 rebuild with conventional cabs and saturated belpaire boilers, most touching bit was a hand written letter with his dogs paw prints. Hopefully I still have that letter somewhere.

The story motivated me to scan some slides from that North Eastern trip. Apart from the neatly painted passenger stock yard at Orbisonia has the atmosphere of a coal hauling railroad than a heritage operation. The main line looking North towards Orbisonia Station and the Pennsylvania Railroad interchange at Mount Union. The depot and yard are actually in the city of Rockhill Furnaces. General view of the yard and shops looking South. Clos Closeup of the Works main line to Robertsdale in center. Classical board and batten wall cladding. Brick roundhouse in distance. Pennsylvania Dutch farm house retained as office, Germanic looking roundhouse. Modern traction M-1 1920s Gas Electric Doodlebug railcar assembled by EBT from a kit supplied by Brill EBT No 14 is one of 6 increasingly larger 2-8-2 locomotives built for the railroad between 1911 & 1920. The railroad had considered buying diesel electric locos in the early 1950s but coal traffic fell off severely as a result of the shift to oil and gas during the mid 1950s. Taking a time exposure inside the shed was challenging but rewarding.

Barry Carse outlined the background of the CIE power planning system in his book the Irish Metrovick Diesels (Colourpoint 1996) Class A-------------1200hp upwards------------ 1-100 Class B------------800-1100hp---------------------101-200 Class C----------- 500-750hp------------------------210-300 Class D----------- 487hp Shunters---------------301-400 Class E------------420ho Shunters----------------401-500 Class F------------224hp Narrowgauge---------501-600 Class G----------0-4-0 Shunters-------------------601-700 Its possible that CIE may not have considered a requirement for a higher powered loco in the early 1950s as a 1200-1300 hp may have been the practical limit in terms of power for a 6 axle diesel electric with wide route availability on the Irish railway system. Weight was a significant issue with diesel electric in the early 1950s with establish builders struggling to design locos within the limits specified by CIE, GNR & UTA The B and C class power ratings are broadly in line with those envisaged for main line mixed traffic by the GNR and a joint GNR/UTA working group in the early 1950s. The joint working group initially identified a locomotive within an 800-1000hp power range for main line passenger and mixed traffic work and a "light locomotive" capable of 35-40mph for tripm working and shunting, the GNR later refined this to 1000hp for express passenger and heavy goods work, 800hp Mixed Traffic and 400hp Shunting and Trip work. Interestingly in its tender to the GN Metropolitan Vickers proposed the 1200hp Co Co it was building for CIER for the 1000hp category at £61,433 and C Class in the 400hp power category. GM proposed its standard 875hp export G8 A1A A1A £52,179 and Nohab proposed its (GM powered) 1310hp A1A A1A at £63,414 It looks like the Metrovick order was more tied up with currency exchange and improving Anglo-Irish relations than CIE achieving value for money. Some of the Class C were re-classified as Class B but retained their original running numbers, beginning with C233 & 234 when they were rebuilt with Maybach 1200hp MD-650 engines in 1965 and 66 some of the rebuilt C Class were repainted directly into the Supertrain scheme following re-build and did not receive the Class B suffix.

Great to see that 650 finally arrived, I still have to finish a Y boilered loco for myself. GSR grey appears to be darker in the Northern Hemisphere or is it my imagination?

Getting to ride an EBT 2-8-2 You lucky thing!!!!!!!!!!! I organised a side trip to visit the railroad on an enthusiast trip to the North East about 20 years ago, we got the red carpet treatment at Orbisonia with one of the caretakers opened the roundhouse for us although it was not a running day. The Friends of the East Broad Top seem to be involved as the supporters group for the new foundation, which appears to be lead by some "heavy hitters" from the Railroad Industry including a former CEO of Norfolk Southern and owners and directors of a number of Regional Railroads ,,,,,,,,,pretty much an American equivalent of the Festiniog Trust.

The class system was based on power output and use similar to the British Railways system. A------------1200hp-High power main line mixed traffic. B------------960hp Medium power main line mixed traffic C-----------550hp Low power branch line mixed traffic D-----------487hp Heavy shunting and transfer locomotive. E-----------400hp Shunting, banking and branch line duties. (Diesel hydraulic) F---- 224hp? Narrow gauge mixed traffic (Diesel Mechanical) G----------130hp Light shunting and branch line services (Diesel Mechanical) K----------800 Heavy shunting locomotive (Diesel Hydraulic). There is a rumor that it was originally intended to classify the EMD GL8 (B121) locos in the K rather than B Class power category. Although of similar power to the Sulzers the GL8s had a lower tractive effort and were considerably lighter than the Sulzers, which would have been a disadvantage on heavier main line passenger and freight duties. B101--------960hp-------------41,800lb----------75 tons B121-------950hp-------------35,000lb----------64tons Although the majority of main line diesels fitted into the BR Class 1 & 2 power classifications a number of the Ar Class were uprated to 1650hp for Heuston Tralee passenger services which would have taken them into the BR Class 3 power classification

Somewhat old news, but I stumbled across this story while scanning through Trains Magazine in a local bookshop. https://eastbroadtop.com/ It looks like after 60 years the uncertainty over the future of Pennsylvania's East Broad Top Railroad has finally ended with the sale of the line to a non-profit foundation in February 2020. Although sold to a salvage company in 1956 the line was not lifted or locomotives and stock scrapped, a heritage railway operated over a short (5mile) section of the line between 1960 and 2011, while the remainder of the 33 mile line returned to nature. The future of the railroad has been in doubt for many years as the railroads continued existence was largely dependent on the goodwill of the Kovalchick Salvage Company as the East Broad Top Supporters Society did not have the resources to acquire the entire system. The railroad is probably unique as a main line narrow gauge railway as the system including route mileage, locomotive and rolling stock roster is largely complete, Orbisonia shop (works) facility an Inchacore on a smaller scale complete with 19th Century machinery.

Reading the newspaper article the 3' gauge is to have a 3' gauge steam loco up and running for the launch of the Connemara Railway Project. The promoters are keeping the identity of the 3' gauge loco under wraps. I suppose the question is what working 3' gauge steam locos & a train suitable for Maam Cross are currently available in Ireland and the UK, rather than what broad gauge locos could be made available to the project. A short Irish Narrow Gauge train ride in conjunction with a museum with some restored Broad Gauge stock & restored station may be more achievable and attractive to the tourist market than a full blown 5'3" restoration project.

There was a lot of interesting information on the performance of the various classes in Dan Renehans series of papers on CIE Diesel Locos in IRRS Journals of the 70s & 80s. The 071s have a tendency to slip because of a combination their high tractive power and relatively light weight or adhesion factor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adhesion_railway and the absence of a traction control system. Interestingly the 071s were only rostered to work passenger trains when introduced, possibly as a result of safety concerns raised by the unions representing drivers. The unions lodged documents with the Courts detailing concerns as part of their bargaining process when the company attempted to roster the class to p.w. and freight work without first negotiating with the drivers. Interesting scene on Taylorstown Bank sending out workers to assist the train by placing ballast on the track, in loose coupled days the goods trains were restricted to a maximum of 550 tons over Taylorstown Bank. During the Beet Campaign CIE operated a shuttle service of beet trains between Wellington Bridge and Campile and later Waterford where trains were re-marshaled to a max of 780 tons for the Beet Specials to the Thurles Factory. Shuttle working ceased and the scheduled Beet Specials ran through from Wellington Bridge to Thurles & later Mallow and the load limit for liner trains over Taylorstown crept up from 630-780 tons following the introduction of the beet double wagons in the late 70s. Likewise the majority of loose coupled goods departing the North Wall were banked by an E Class or a main line loco as far as East Wall Junction, Cabra or Liffey Junction in loose coupled days, Heuston (Kingsbridge Goods) Main Line and Liffey Branch were banked to Inchacore & sometimes Clondalkin and North Wall Transfer Trains banked to Cabra.

The CMEs office (60s & 70s) was opposed to using sand to improve adhesion with diesel locos, possibly fear to sand getting into the traction motors, excess wear on the final drive gears. The Sulzers and Metrovicks were originally supplied with sandboxes. EMD apparently strongly recommended fitting sanders to the 071 Class and sent photos of their locos working in the Saudi Desert to assure the CMEs office that sand getting into the traction motors was not a problem! The Small Bo Bos and 071s suffered from wheel slip and adhesion problems, the B121s were not considered suitable for heavy loose coupled goods work due to limited braking power as they only had 2 brake cylinders per bogie, the 141s had better braking power but were considered to be light on their feet, the 071s were(are?) prone to slipping in poor rail conditions, at one stage CIE would send a a loco and brake van up the "Gullet" from Island Bridge Junction to Inchacore to sand the rails on wet or frosty conditions to sand the rails for heavy southbound departures. Slipping and inadequate braking power seems to have been less of a problem with the B101 and A/001 Class than the GMs as they had better slow speed hauling ability with their Metrovickers electrical systems and drop equalising bogies.

We are not proceeding further with the commissioning of the bulk grain wagon and open wagon at this stage primarily as a result of uncertainty of the effects of the Covid-19 pandemic on the World economy, but may re-visit the models at a later date. I would like to thank everyone who has expressed support for the project, by completed the survey, responding to this thread and who contacted me directly. Although the survey results were encouraging with over 75% of people who responded interested in both types of wagon the sample size of 74 (including members of this thread, customers and people who responded on social media) was relatively small considering the size of the Irish railway modelling community.

The majority of 1930s streamlining and speeding up of trains was mainly for marketing purpose by making the railways seem more modern to fight off road and air competition. Narrow gauge NZ locomotive performance is not exactly pedestrian Minister, and NZR loco design and practice highly regarded by international commentators since the late 19th Century. While high speed running is not practicable on many routes, a Ja Class 4-8-2 is said to have reached 85mph across the Canterbury Plains on the "South Island Limited" and high speeds achievable in Canterbury and the more easily graded Southern (87miles) and Northern (124miles). The enginemen and maintenance staff apparently hated the streamline fairing on the boiler of the J Class as dirt tended to collect on the top of the boiler creating very dirty conditions for the engine crews and anyone maintaining the locos. Apparently senior management resisted removing the fairing despite union representation, until someone in authority noticed that the Class looked better without the fairing after fitters removed damaged fairing from one side of a loco to keep traffic moving during WW11. Probably the most bizarre attempt at streamlining was when Tasmania's EMU Bay railway fitted a pair of small wheeled Edwardian 4-8-0s with smoke deflectors and fairing for its West Coaster motor rail service which operated between 1960 and 1964. The train was introduced as an interim measure to cater for increasing tourist traffic to the West Coast, as there was no road access between the North and West Coasts of Tasmania until the opening of the Murchison Highway in 1965 The EMU Bay quickly went back to its normal business of hauling mineral traffic after the ending of the Coaster though No 8 is preserved in Zeehan on the West Coast a small wheeled narrow gauge version of a Highland Railway Castle 4-6-0 J15 186 with smoke deflectors and fairing anyone?

Maybe a bit more low slung the NYC J3s streamlining inspired the streamlining of the NZR J I wonder what an 800 Class or GNR Compound would have looked like with 1930s classical Streamling.

My comments about the Lima N gauge locos are based on my experience with operating several different types of Lima N gauge locos during the 1970's including the BR AL1 overhead electric, Brush Type 2, Irish 0-6-0 and German V100/BR Clayton. The Lima V100/ painted dark blue to resemble the GNR MAK was the most reliable of my Lima diesels, these locos used the same 4w chassis with central pancake motor used in the 4w diesel shunter with pony truck at each end to resemble a double bogie loco. The Lima tender drive appears to be mechanically similar to the V100 and diesel shunter, with a reliable power pick up system and no traction tyres. I may have replaced the 4F tender drive with the chassis from a Fleischmann Piccolo 7218 diesel shunter because of motor failure or to achieve reliable slow speed running rather than poor power pick up or pulling power, I don't remember the exact circumstances as I scrapped the loco over 30 years ago. The armature of the pancake motor used in the Lima N gauge locos have a tendency to fail when the commutator work loose on the motor armature shaft and breaks away from the armature windings. The problems with power pick up and poor haulage power mainly affected bogie diesels and electrics, with a single motor bogie and pick up on the un-powered bogie, performance became increasingly poor after a couple of weeks service, with slipping as traction tyres worked loose on the power bogies and increasingly erratic running due to the poor design and choice of materials used in the power pick up system. To be fair the Lima N gauge locos were probably no worse and in some cases better than similar priced N gauge locos produced at the time for the American and UK markets.

The DRG61 and Pennsylvania Railway GG1 electrics were broadly similar in styling American locomotive builders shifted away from stream line carbody styling to the more utilitarian Road Switcher designs spurred on by Alco's success with the RS2 & RS3 designs in the late 1940s. The BL2 appears to have been a response to Alco competition with its early introduction of road switchers but quickly switched production to the utilitarian GP7. It looks like the EX may have been a concept or proposal based on using standard EMD components for a loco suitable for Irish conditions and never got beyond the concept stage as it was not really a practical proposition and would have been very expensive to set up to build a small batch of locomotives at Inchacore. The 600 hp engine is likely to have been forced on the designers to keep the axle load within acceptable limits to allow the loco to run on lightly laid branch and secondary main line routes. At an estimated 93.5 tons and 56' long the locos would have been very heavy and cumbersome for shunting or branch line work and underpowered for main line use, though possibly good for low speed heavy goods work. It was simpler to modify domestic American designs like the F7 to Australian & Continental conditions due to the larger loading gauge and heavier axleloads compared to Ireland

Our office was on the corner of Grand Canal Place and Harmony Row, with a great view of the railway from the staff canteen. Although it was a fairly modern 4 story building with brick cladding, it was demolished or possibly re-built as a 6 stroy office blocl with curtain walling, totally different in character from when I worked there about 20 years ago. At the time there was not a lot of variety in train workings DARTs on inner suburban workings, Arrow railcars on Maynooth line services & 201s & MK3 push pull services stabled on the line between Pearse Station and the Boston Yard for peak hour Northern Line services, 201 Class running through on the Ammonia and bulk cement trains to and from the Cork to the Belfast line running to the Boston Yard on weekends to run round. Power on the Rosslare passenger was more un-predictable with a single Bo Bo sometimes working the train if an 071 was unavailable.

GM concentrated mainly on the North American domestic market into the mid 50s hence the reluctance in the late 40s to build locos for CIE, the early Australian & Scandanavian GMs were basically scaled down versions of the F7 on A1A -A1A trucks modified to local conditions. The introduction of GM export models from 1953 onwards may have been spurred on by Alco's export success with its "World Locomotive". A BL2 on an SD7 or SD9 chassis in CIE green or a GM inspired colour scheme would be an interesting talking point on an Irish layout.

During the 70s the Rivarossi N & HO Italian diesel locomotive https://picclick.it/N-Gauge-Atlas-Rivarossi-D341-FS-Italian-Diesel-392010191981.html was the standard rtr donor for CIE C and B201 class conversions. The Rivarossi N gauge locos were reasonably good runners by the standards of the time with simple reliable mechanisms, Minitrix was pretty much the gold standard in terms of engineering and reliability but had nothing really suitable for an Irish conversion. The Lima BR N Gauge MK1 coaches were oddly proportioned designed to a composite scale like the British Trix OO gauge coaches of the same era. The coaches appear to have been to Continental & US 1:160 scale length and British 1:148 width. The Lima HO scale 4 F was close to HO in length and OO in width.