BSGSV

I can add a bit more, having gone through earlier IRRS Journals last night. The Radio Train started in the Summer of 1950, to Killarney every Tuesday, June 6 to August 29, from Amiens Street. Most Thursdays during that period, it was scheduled to go to Galway. 875 was the only studio coach at that point. Its studio compartment was enlarged in 1951, presumably as a result of experience the first year. By 1952, the train was also running to Sligo and Cork. Killarney on Tuesdays and Saturdays, Galway 6 Thursdays, Cork 4 Thursdays, Sligo 2 Thursdays. This seems to have put pressure on the available stock, as a kitchen car was converted from 1130 in 1952,(and appeared in the Radio Train as per the 1955 comment in the previous post), and in 1953 a second studio coach was converted by (sic) "953 invalid coach, the old radio van will be retained for use as required". I think 953 is a typo for 935, as 953 was a non-corridor six-wheeler from a large batch of similar vehicles! The additions of 2126/7 and 2135 suggest a widening of the programme in later years. I have seen a note that several of the last batch of CIE seconds (1497 to 1503) were allocated to the Radio Train after building.

As the brochure dates from 1954 and the 2126/7 conversions only date from 1955, as Kirley suspects, there were earlier conversions, both gangwayed vehicles. 875 (Built 1907, 66' long, 9' wide, 12' 10" high, clerestory roof, originally 1st/3rd/Brake, 12 first, 40 third, 2 lavs and guard's van). 935 (ex-WLWR, Built 1896, 48' long, 9' wide, 12' high, arc roof, turned in ends, Compartment/Saloon layout, 19 first class seats, 2 lavs, small kitchen). I suspect the cover photo shows 935. 2126 and 2127 of 1955 were joined by 2135 in 1961. A comment in 1955 suggests that the "normal" radio train included kitchen car 1130. These five were re-numbered (along with the ambulance coaches) into special series in 1965 - RS20 to RS 24. 875 (RS20) and 935 (RS21) were withdrawn in 1966 and were replaced by two new conversions RS25 and RS26, ex-GSR suburban compos 2117, 2118. There's a photo of one in Pender & Richards, "Irish Railways Today". This last pair seem to have been relatively short lived.

The Camping Coaches were announced in the Spring of 1959. Six were prepared for the 1959 season, two each for Dungarvan, Killarney and Carrick-on-Shannon, available from 2nd May to 24th October. Each coach cost £650 to convert and included sleeping berths for eight, a spacious living room and fully equipped kitchenette. Lighting, heating and cooking was by Kosangas. Bed and table linen, crockery, cutlery and cooking utensils were also provided. Livery was described as being CDJRC style or dull pink and cream. HC1 was completed in early March and put on display in Platform 3 at Amiens Street from 16th to 28th March, presumably to advertise the service and encourage bookings. HC1 to HC6 were converted from 803, 811, 802, 934, 832, 347. Unfortunately which went where is not recorded. Apparently the season was successful and two more coaches were converted for the 1960 season, for Tramore. However, the two at Carrick-on-Shannon were transferred to Galway. HC7 and HC8 were converted from 818, 837. The W&T closed on 31/12/60 and apparently all coaches, including the HC's, were moved to Waterford, where one at least had to be removed, as the next mention of allocations is as late as 1967, (which appears to be the last season), when HC4 and HC5 were at Killarney and HC1, 2, 3, 6, 7 were at Youghal. Early in 1968 the Camping Coaches were withdrawn. They were stated to be for likely use as Staff Sleeping Cars and it was noted two had been at Tuam during the beet campaign. HC7 became 529A and was located at Dungarvan for the lifting crews on the Mallow - Waterford route. HC6 became 528A and was seen at Limerick Junction on 18th March 1968. 529A retained its roof boards reading "Holiday Camping Coach" and both were still red and cream. That appears to be the last reference. Pender & Richards shows the following conversions to Departmental use. 523A from 803, 524A from 811, 525A from 802, 526A from 934, 527A from 832, 528A from 347, 530A from 837. It doesn't show 529A but that must be 818 as above. Presumably, if they did become staff coaches, they were replaced by the ISO type boxes placed on four wheel flats, dating from 1970?

Regarding the HLV and GSV differences, this thread has explored this subject before: http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/showthread.php/3553-Generator-cars-for-irish-coaching-stock-specifically-HLV?highlight=steam+heat+van

Oh, you bad people suggesting the CIE diesels had firemen! Unlike BR, CIE moved to remove the second man right from the first arrival of the Metrovicks, and they were driver only from the start. Again, unlike BR, CIE insisted on having all four positions fitted with driving controls, not just the left hand side of the cab, although that was the usual driving position. Hence the recovery of the wiper motors on the secondman's side for re-use as spares. The Metrovicks adopted a similar wiper motor to the GM's later, and got both wipers back. CIE did end up having to put another man in the cab, to operate the staff snatcher when required, which I would imagine irritated management hugely, as one-man operation was a sacred cow, like the non-use of sanding. The early Metrovicks had sanding and even the 121's had the boxes fitted as standard. CIE decided it wasn't needed.

I don't believe 234 ever had silver, being green from new, then black, but if there's evidence of silver, I'd be interested to see it. On an "A" class matter, this model has turned up at DCDR. Can anyone shed any light? https://www.facebook.com/IrishTractionGroup#!/IrishTractionGroup/posts/941228345966618

You can buy a copy if you wish! http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272158919173?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2648&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT#ht_1417wt_1037

Great question. I found a photo of 233 and the porthole was still missing. I haven't tracked down a suitable photo of 234/NIR 109 yet.

When CAWS was fitted to the locos in the early 1980's, the locomotive receivers were mounted on brackets under the bufferbeam, each end. As these were ahead of the lifeguards, they were prone to damage as they would be first to hit any ballast etc. sitting on the rails. The solution adopted after about 6-7 years, was to fit the the large metal framework supported from the bufferbeams, JHB's "fangs". None of the "C" class got the framework, and not all "A" class either, as some were already withdrawn. The headlights were fitted as part of the "transplant" project, as were the additional roof boxes beside the air vents, to accommodate the air intake/Roots blowers on the new engines, two on the "A", one on the "C". The "C" class also got larger radiators. Barry's book is indeed a pleasure, and I am looking forward to his and JHB's upcoming book on the North Kerry, as their last collaboration on the West contained a splendid collection of photographs and commentary.

JHB, that first picture is of Ardrahan, not Craughwell.

I'm not aware of any bogie vehicle that didn't have brake cylinders for each bogie.

Carrick-on-Suir and Tipperary are still working. Limerick Check still has its mechanical frame too. Clonsilla and Killonan might also be considered, given their gates arrangements.

I'm afraid the only electricity involved is the light bulb to illuminate the dial at night! The cable from the housing on the axle end to the speedo is removable and come in different lengths for different loco types to avoid excessive slack having to be "lost".

According to Irish Railfans' News for Feb. 1971 B123 and B127 received red bufferbeams in 1961 and 1962 respectively. This was done by Grand Canal Street depot as the locos were rostered to work the Wexford Opera special. The cab height of the 121 is very noticeable if the door is stuck and you are hanging from the handrails trying to get in! The Hasler box shown in the picture above seems a bit more sophisticated than those fitted to 121's etc., which just appear to have gearing driving a cable leading to the speedo in the cab.

In addition to the multi-sockets and air pipes, the 121's were also fitted with the high-vacuum pipe for (AEC conversion) push-pull working. It can be seen to the left of the screw coupling. The later Mk.3 P/P saw door controls and an additional changeover switch fitted in the cab. On the subject of uni-directional 121's, a poor 1986 shot of the first Up Sligo arriving in Dublin. Locos are 123 and 129. When released, the locos went 129 nose leading to the shed.

The Bachmann model appears to be based on a Somerset & Dorset Joint Railway design (have a look at Midsomer Norton for example). The Ratio model is based on the McKenzie & Holland Type 3 design, which wasn't used that much in Ireland (see Goraghwood with a panelled brick base, or Macroom (C&MDR) in timber. The Gloucester Wagon Company/Railway Signal Company design, in its basic form, was used extensively in Ireland - but I haven't seen a model produced yet.

I don't like your quiz as the question is too hard! I'm not saying this is the last, but I do believe that, despite the caption, there's no middle wheels on this carriage. They may have been removed to make it easier to get around the curve, something done on the Isle of Wight too.

Can I just clarify, please? Is it passenger carrying only Irish standard gauge carriages you have in mind, or NPCCS as well?

Irish railways generally didn't go overboard with such niceties as starting signal control, i.e. can't pull the starter unless a line clear has been received. On single lines, while many locations had a lock on the starting signal lever, released by a key from the ETS machine, itself released by co-operation to release a staff, it wasn't universal. Double track sections with Harper's were far from universally equipped with the equivalent. Given the busy nature of the service, it was a surprise to find so many cabins on the GNRI main line from Malahide to Drogheda, right to the end of mechanical working, relied on the signalman to follow procedures, rather than providing any additional safeguards for him. To clarify, what order did you expect signals to be cleared in?

To be clear, the unusual thing about Claremorris is the lack of function description on the lever pull plates (e.g. "Down Advanced Starter to Westport", "No. 19 Points" and such like). The releases are, as expected, on the bottoms of (some) plates. As you say, 31 had no indication latterly of anything needing to be pulled before it, but all three routes from it needed a points lever reversed, otherwise the loco would end up on the ballast. So, I would have expected that to be indicated on the lever plate of 31, but it is not so. While it is common in Britain for each route from a shunt signal to be given a separate disc (stacked on top of one another, and disc reading top to bottom, route left to right), GSR/CIE tended to be cheaper, so the signalman and driver needed to be more on their toes. 31 would (I believe) have controlled a shunt movement to three routes (i.e. driver can proceed past the signal only as far as he can see the line to be clear or until he reaches the next stop signal in that direction). I agree with you that prior to removal, it would have been the appropriate signal to use for run-rounds - although the Homes 59/61 don't have a co-located disc. No. 27 crossover from the down line (No.2 platform road) - you may have been expected to proceed as far as 13 and 14 discs before getting a signal, or be handsignalled before that (as it was near the cabin). I suspect 38 was added to replace the previously hand signalled move from Platform 2 to the down sidings (via No. 26 crossover), probably more commonly used once diesel fuelling started down there.

Being fresh this morning, I suspect Junctionmad and myself have been having a nice discussion but have had a diffierent idea of what some of the topics have been... One item/time period at a time might be useful to avoid this. The disc signal? http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/showthread.php/4476-One-for-the-Signalling-Nerds On the diagram the disc in question is worked by lever 31, at the Dublin end of Platform 1. Claremorris was interesting in that the lever pull plates had no descriptions of the functions at all, which is the only example I've can remember seeing. There were just the releases shown, and 31 seems to have been misleading. You would expect three routes - towards Tuam (with 54 reverse), towards Ballyhaunis (56 reverse) or the siding (57 traps reverse). So you would have thought the pull plate would show "54 or 56 or 57" at the bottom, to cover shunt moves in the particular direction. http://catalogue.nli.ie/Collection/vtls000148612/Home?lookfor=claremorris&submit=Apply Is an O'Dea photo of the diagram from 1960, and the disc in question is 52 (later used as the Advanced Starter). Other O'Dea photos show the lack of descriptions seems to have been an original feature. Sadly, the pulls on 52 aren't visible. One hopes it was better labelled than 31.

But now the light engine is approaching rolling stock stabled on the track the loco is entering, so running signals would be inappropriate. Having looked at the 071 video, the siding formerly accessed by 56 crossover and the disc are gone. So there was little option but to pull the platform starter anyway! The pull plate on lever 31 (the disc) would tell us how it could have been used, if we ever see such a pic.

Perhaps a way to think about it, is to consider what function the Advanced Starting signals performed, if you couldn't clear the preceding Platform Starter? Why have them at all, if so? I think you answered your own question though - the signalman controls the speed of the train by bringing it to, or nearly to, a stand, before clearing the preceding stop signal, and the driver understands by that, that the stop signal ahead is against him. While I would agree that there would be limited value in letting an Athlone bound train get to the Advanced Starter without line clear (the logistics of getting the staff out would be a nuisance), I would suspect in the days of sizable Pilgrimage traffic, that parking a train out there might be useful, or the equivalent at other points of the station layout.

The levers associated with the advanced starters at the Westport/Sligo end, 16 and 17, were originally associated with the Ballinrobe branch and show up in O'Dea's photo of the diagram taken in 1960 (on the NLI site). So, post 1960 and a nice trawl through the weekly circulars in the IRRS library should deliver a date! It was perfectly in order to clear the platform starting signal, without the advanced starter being clear (the latter being the section signal). At Claremorris, this would allow a train bound for the Athlone direction (for example) to clear Platform 1, so allowing another train to enter the platform, even if line clear hadn't been obtained from Ballyhaunis/Castlerea. The disc was to control access to the siding (56 crossover normal, 57 traps reversed). For the shunt move being discussed, the loco could have been routed to either the Athlone or Tuam lines via the main arms on the end-of-platform bracket signal to run round, the advanced starters preventing the driver from rambling too far. Given there was a level crossing at the Tuam end of the station (with the advanced starter slotted with the gates), I would think there were never Limit of Shunt boards that end, as there was the Advanced Starter instead.

Coal containers were emptied by grab I believe (but I could be wrong). I think you are confusing diagrams from different periods. The photo you put up of the diagram in latter days (in another thread) shows no limit of shunt boards. This is because there were latterly advanced starters on all routes, so the limit of shunts weren't required.