jhb171achill

Very interesting post, Steve. Why it was built to a length which was non-standard not only to the GNR, but to every other railway too,is something I would have no notion about. However, I would discount any idea that it was built using railcar / railbus parts or chassis, or as something specifically to be hauled by one. It would be too heavy, despite its length, for a glorified road bus to haul. It might well have been built for that branch, though. My best guess would be that somebody decided that a full-length coach was an extravagance, as passenger traffic on this picturesque little branch line never amounted to that much.

Lishen, boi. Ye are in Caaaarkk now, so to hill wit dem ****** jackeens, ok? Ye are nowww in DE REEEEEEEEEL KAPPITAL, boi!!!!

Very good thinking. Sourcing suitable short wheelbase bogies shouldn’t be a problem - with the double footboards hiding them, the “two-foot rule” may be liberally applied. Many of the CBSCR “shorties” Mayner mentions were culled in early CIE days, but sat about for years in that museum graveyard that was Albert Quay. They were replaced by (I think five) ancient GSWR bogies of 35-40ft long, for excursions on the T & C. These feature in many pics at Courtmacsherry, even behind “C” class diesels, or double-headed 90 + 100. These yokes, being ex-GSWR, are even MORE suitable for the Hattons stock, as the GSWR is by a very long way the closest design to them! Latterly, with Cork’s inevitable sense of independence (!), they were in a non-standard livery - all-over DARK green, with no lining or snails, just a number. This seems to have been a Republic of Glanmire application to secondary stock, boy, as some ex-CBSC stock was similarly treated, boy.

This is a truly exceptional piece of work.

Yes, that's the "stripey" one I referred to.

As a schoolboy I watched it, without the sense that more mature-aged enthusiasts had of the extent to which its days were numbered. To me, it was just another steam train. Filthy locomotive, dark green carriages heading somewhere far-distant and exotic, like Dungannon......

Shunting at Dugort on a sunny day in 1966….. Cloudy the following day as B141 brings the morning passenger train across the remote Lettermore Bog en route to Castletown West. On the approach, a recently withdrawn GSWR bogie rests in the old cattle siding. IMG_5539.MOV

Looks great, Paddy! I like the way you've enhanced the trackwork and associated vegetation.

1958, and 472 eases away with the mid day mixed to Castletown West.

With a dead donkey logo in it…

Yeah, but I’m finished in the loo now. I did open the window.

Indeed; forgot about the two greens! That’s 12 liveries, then.

Even the ones with no teeth, one leg, extreme flatulence and hygiene issues?

You've won a 5-week luxury holiday for seven in the Maldives! Add to the above: 10. CIE green with stripes on top of the front of the roof, and 11. GNR navy / cream with UTA numbers and logo. Both 2 & 11 were both limited to very few vehicles, and also very short-lived.

For ten points and a bonus prize, and a chance to win a luxury Porsche, how many livery variants can you identify for AEC railcars? (There are 11......) Neither the first nor the last instance of official drawings differing from the eventual real thing!

Here’s hoping!

Yes A very pale green.

Indeed - that light grey roof was a one-off variation, like the short-lived "whiskerless" green you've illustrated, but confined to the UTA. Everything CIE, be it in green or black'n'tan, always had black roofs.

That's EXACTLY what Irish carriages were like back when they WERE four-wheeled. the almost total differences with the English ones seen in Mayner's post above are obvious.

Worsley would sell a lot more if they would provide illustrations of each etch. Many people don't know what the various things offered look like, and few would be bothered researching each and every one to get a picture! ...........and BOY, were they NOISY!

I'd say so, yes; and this also represents well what would be the ultimate general type of design for Irish 4-wheelers, just before a similar stage-coach-inspired body design was slightly lengthened to produce the first 6-wheelers. The livery, by the way, is believed to have been a very dark maroon.

Is that thing DCC fitted? Mind you, a 121 could just about have hauled six-wheelers on a Youghal excursion - but only in the year 1962! However, the loco would have been grey and yellow, and the six-wheelers green. In terms of the black'n'tan full brake, one at least DID run behind 121s in both the grey and yellow, and black and tan liveries - but not, obviously, the supertrain version.

Latterly the CMDR had straight-sided six-wheelers. But any railway which operated before 1875 or so would originally have had 4-wheelers; however, as you suggest, they were very long gone from passenger use by the 1940s. A few just survived because they got stuffed into some shed or down some weed-grown siding and forgotten about; others were used as mobile tool sheds and the like in place such as Limerick Works, Waterford Yard, or Inchicore.

FOUR WHEELED COACHES IN IRELAND I’ve been asked to comment on the general subject of 4-wheel passenger stock in Ireland. Early coaches were all 4-wheel, as seen on the likes of the Ulster Railway Co., the Belfast, Hollywood & Bangor, Dublin & Drogheda, Dublin & Kingstown, Waterford & Tramore and the Cork & Bandon - as well as the bigger companies like the GSWR & MGWR in their early days (1840s-70s). However by the early or mid 1870s, six-wheelers had become the norm. Thus, four wheel chassis gave way to six wheel, long before body styles caught up - the precise opposite of Britain. Thus, as a general rule (albeit with a VERY few exceptions) it was possible to see comparatively long-wheelbase four wheelers in Britain, it was not the case here, where instead you’d see six-wheelers built in the 1870s, with small, box-like carriage body of more 1860s “architecture”. Examples: First, this 1870 standard GSWR passenger brake has the older body design, but even at that stage they are 6-wheeled. Some half dozen of these were relegated to departmental use probably before 1900, and remained as static "sheds" in various locatiuons even into the 1960s, over half a century since they had turned a wheel. Much lower than 1885-onwards stock, and box-like with small windows, a throwback to stage coach design. The last of this TYPE of vehicle would have been withdrawn in the early years of the 20th century, though the MGWR (totally different design) rebuilt a single one in the 1920s - though I believe it did not last much longer. Again, below, typical early body shape (Waterford & Tramore, 1860s) but ALREADY six-wheeled. The earliest "modern" body shapes were by now the standard 30ft lengeth (though the BCDR & CBSCR had, respectively, longer and shorter lengths of 6-wheelers) - and all coaches built after about 1880 were like this. Bogies appeared in Ireland in the 1890s. meanwhile, Britain was still building long 4-wheelers, like the hattons 4-wheelers; so for modellers, a Hrnby or Hattons 4-wheeler is too long and modern a body for the Irish 4-wheel era, and an axle short for any time after that! These are MGWR types; dimensions are more or less standard across many companies, though carriages built much after 1910 had higher roof profiles on all companies. THIS is what four-wheeled Irish stock looked like, and the body designs alone will make clear how early it was when such things were the norm. Look at the first. If the (directly) above MGWR 6-wheeler is box-like in comparison to anything post-1915, it's still cavernous compared to the lower one from the same company, about 15 years earlier. And yet, below represent the ULTIMATE development of passenger-carrying four-wheelers here. Inside, they had longitudinal benches instead of proper seats. There was a cull of these in the early to mid 1890s, with barely a few surviving into the very early 1900s. There is evidence of one, at least, being seen in Ballinrobe, Loughrea and Clifden in the mid to late 1890s. The MGWR rebuilt ONE in the early 1920s; why, or for what use, or how long in that use, is not known - but it was clearly something non-standard as this type of thing had LONG gone by then from normal traffic, even on railways like the CBSCR where much of the coaching stock were museum pieces. More typically for the 4-wheel era; this. Some of the old Dublin & Kingstown open stock (like this, or the one in Cultra) - probably about half a dozen - were retained as absolute last-resort stuff for summer excursions into the very early 1900s, while on the Waterford & Tramore one or two opens like this (though SIX-wheeled!) were in stock into GSR times - but almost never used - due to the isolated nature of this line. So, overall, the moral of the story is: if you want 4-wheelers, you're better modelling one of our very earliest railways; if you want a layout based on anything at all, anywhere on this island, post-1880 or so, go for 6-wheelers.

Yes, and there was one, or possibly two, early GSWR six-wheelers which ended their days in departmental use with the middle axle removed. I'm preparing a longer post about all this stuff. Yes, it is. It was a one-off; if one wanted to model that, the Hornby "Thomas" coach is as close a match as you'd get. Moreover, it was in departmental use possibly as far back as 1901. They did; see my post shortly. These were, however, open-sided things more Stephenson's Rocket era than anything later. I'll post a pic shortly.