jhb171achill

EXACTLY. Spot on. By any standard, even the most optimistic, or the most staunchly pro-rail, could never justify spending money on a new (or essentially new) railway, just to redirect traffic from a perfectly adequate existing one, or to duplicate an existing facility. My fears of white coloured elephants and inane politicians remain. One wonders if the Foynes money would have been better spent on Navan or Athenry to Claremorris.

Six MONTHS - many a wan doesn't get this far in six YEARS..............

Today is the 63rd anniversary of the closure of the West Clare - Ireland's only narrow gauge line which was fully dieselised, and the last public narrow gauge line (unless you count the new Dublin trams!) 1st February 1961; RIP.

Yes, it wouldn’t go under the new bridge.

Couple of hours will do that.............................................!!!

Absolutely excellent stuff. As a point of interest, the Irish narrow gauge lines had vastly different loading gauges. the biggest - by some margin - were the CDR & LLSR, and the smallest was the Schill & Skibbereen, whose passenger coaches were only 6ft wide.

A layout design like this is nothing short of pure genius. Never have i seen any layout design with the amount of protypically realistic operational possibilities that this has. Just off the top'o'me head, and not counting the numerous GAA and pilgrimage specials, and depending what era you're representing, here are a few. Even in the modern era there are as many possibilities as the modern railway system actually has, bar the Dart! GOODS 1. Beet. This will originate in the fiddle yard (FY), turn right when it leaves and run (laden, from Wellington Bridge) through Belview, Waterford (WD), and Thomastown (TT), and end up back in the fiddle yard, as it's going to Mallow, not KK. Of course, due to track work at "Clonmel", nothing to stop you routing it through KK, where it'll have run round - do a circuit and go back into FY. 2. Containers. FY - TT - WD - BV, return as well. 3. Timber. Laden FY - TT - WD - BV; empty return. 4. Depending on era, loose-coupled goods KK - TT - WD (Sallypark or Belview can equate to the old east and west goods sidings). 5. Loose coupled New Ross Goods. Runs WD - off past BV to the FY. 6. Wexford goods via Rosslare Strand (1963-76) - same as above. 7. Pre-1963, the New Ross / Palace East / Macmine Junction mixed. Green and grey era - steam loco or filthy A or C, with one old green coach, a few vans, and a goods brake van. PASSENGER 1. Waterford - Dublin express. Leaves WD, then TT, KK, and reverses there. A circuit of the layout in the other direction and it will come back into the FY, which of course is Dublin. 2. Waterford - Limerick Junction - Limerick. WD - passes S'Park - circuit round the layout - FY. 3. Pre-1967 (black'n'tan!) "Rosslare Express". This ran from Cork, via Mallow & Fermoy, to WD and on to Rosslare. Usually a 141 with maybe 4 coaches and a van or two. So this will go FY - WD - on through, past BV, and back to FY. 4. Limerick - Rosslare (1967-2002) train. Initially up to 5 or 6 coaches, latterly a 2-car 2800, or a 141 plus two Park Royals. This will follow the same route on your layout as th Rosslare Express above. 5. Waterford - Rosslare harbour local. On the layout, WD - BV - FY. 6. Pre 1963 local passenger train over the North Wexford line. Same as above. This design you've arrived at presents probably the best set of prototypical operational possibilities that i have ever seen. Even in a comparatively modern era, you've as much variety as the Variety Monster could throw a Variety Stick at. If you're in the loose-coupled goods era, you'll have at any one time maybe two pilot engines in Sallypark and possibly a third shunting at Belview. These will inevitably be 141s. If, however, you expand pre-1963, and you've the Mallow and North Wexford routes as well, you're going to have 00 Works J15s, which monopolised beet in those days, were seen on goods and special passenger trains too, and until about 1961 provided power on the New Ross / Macmine branch too. Even in the very modern era, both 071s and 201s on timber and containers (to some railwaymen, the "Sticks" and the "Boxes". You'll have Mk 3's - both PP and hauled types, and Mk 2s, hauled by 201s or 071s or pairs of 121 / 141. Beet will have just about anything; 071, 121, 141, 181, and not forgetting NIR's 112. You can put a 2-car 2800 on the Rosslare, and the Dublin and Limerick Jct will be 4-car and 3-car ICRs. Go to the 1960s - and the variety in stock is massive. Main line services to Dublin will be a motley mix of Cravens, laminates, Park Royals and the odd Bredin - and until about 1965 thgere will be the odd green one amongst the black'n'tan sets. Locos will be 141s, or after 1972, re-engined "A"'s. Even B101s will appear, almost certainly only on the Cork - Mallow - Fermoy - Waterford goods, maybe the Rosslare Express the odd time. In contrast, the Macmine branch will have an elderly timber-bodied carriage, still green, a brand new tin van, and either an old "C" or a (steam) J15. And don't forget the AEC railcars. When IRM announce their RTR ones next week (sez he, hopefully!) quite simply, it will be impossible to credibly model main line passenger in the 1953-64 period without any of these. During that period these were to be seen on ALL the lines radiating out of Waterford, bar Mallow which seems always to have been loco-hauled. From Waterford to Limerick, to Dublin via either Athy or Abbeyleix, on the North Wexford and the Rosslares. If and when these do become available to purchase, I'll certainly want a few; and they'd be perfect for this layout too. OTHER 1. GAA specials 2. Knock specials 3. Ballast (J15s right to the end of steam, which as far as Waterford was concerned, was January 1963). LOCOS AND ROLLING STOCK WITH REALISTIC USAGE IN VARIOUS PERIODS 1. 1950s - 1963 J15s - Beet, ballast, shunting, North Wexford branch 461 - occasional visits from DSER side 121 / 141 / 181 - absolutely everything. Black'n'tan liveries, plus light grey for 121s initially. "A" class - Coming in from Mallow, Limerick Junction and Kilkenny directions, and beet. Silver, green, early blacl'n'tan and all-black variants. "C" class - North Wexford line (silver, green, early black'n'tan and all- black) B101 - Coming in from the Mallow direction, and continuing to Rosslare. Goods and passenger; silver, green, all black and early black'n'tan. Wooden carriages - bogie and six-wheel - Macmine Jct branch. Bredins / Park Royals* / Laminates*, with tin vans* and older 6-wheel full van brakes, plus old wooden bogie van brakes - green, also older green still on vans, black'n'tan (and silver on some of those marked *) Loose coupled wagons, mostly wooden bodied opens but with Bullieds appearing increasingly. Standard CIE brake vans, possiby an old GSWR one on the North Wexford mixed. Yes - possibilities for MIXED trains on this layout too. All wagons grey, without exception; but the uniformity there is made up for by the massive variety above! 2. 1963 - 1972 Steam gone. All diesels either all-black or black'n'tan. All carriages same, though a few green ones linger till late 60s. With the closure of the North Wexford, mixed trains and six-wheelers are gone too, as are the last older GSWR goods brakes. I think the pair used on the Loughrea and Castleisland lines were by far the last, in use until about 1974./5. 121, 141 & 181 classes monopolise passenger, with the odd "A", especially when re-engined, coming in from Dublin. B101s rarely seen - usually just ballast. Container wagons appear, as well as cement vans, back-to-backs, and after 1970s foir variety, the brown livery starts to appear. Older wooden-bodied goods vans almost if not literally all disappear by around 1971. Cement bubbles appear! 3. Modern Times After 1972, Mk 2 coaches start to appear on Dublin trains, but Limerick Jct and Rosslares will remain with laminates and Park Royals. Bredins gone by about 1973, last old wooden coaches from this area probably about 1969. Some Dublin trains are Cravens too - I recall a journey about 1975 in a set of mixed laminates, a tatty-looking Park Royal and Cravens with a 24xx dining car. After mid-1980s, Mk 3s appear. After 1976, loose-coupled goods is gone, and it's all containers. CIE bought loads of them in packs of three from IRM. Modern 4-wheel fitted wagons of various types, and fertiliser bogies appear. Guinness and Fert specials up to New Ross! After 1976/7, 071s appear. Later, 2800s and ICRs. Ooooooh boy.

That really sets it off!

This was taken about 1947. I think it's Magherafelt, Co Derry. Note the stabled NIRTB buses and Railcar No. 3 in the background - Senior had it out for a PW inspection. (jhbSenior's photo)

Wow! New one to me. Not beyond the bounds of possibility.... Dundalk home made job, or even Clones?

As it was, courtesy of Senior in the 1930s..........

Achill had two 2ft gauge lines. One (Keel) was steam worked by two small locos, the other (Cloghmore) was horse (or donkey) worked. That's exactly what I had in mind! The idea could be that a few miles the far side of Castletown West - on the way to the fiddle yard / sorry, main line junction, there's a mill of some sort. This peckett yoke appears each morning with a van or two to stick onto the goods for Cork / Tralee, and picks up empties off the incoming one. Unofficially, CIE may even borrow it to shunt the odd time, as a result of a "local arrangement". We are in West Kerry, after all................ If it's anything like the Allmans one used in Cork, I'm just thinking it would need to be weathered within an inch of its life by the Extremist Continuity Weatherers....

Any outfit like Moyasta would, yes.

Indeed, and on a regular basis impossible. When the DCDR is open, during the day some 16 volunteers are on duty at any one time. One more reason why railway heritage groups are always on the lookout for new volunteers, and why oft-seen comments that "it would be good if someone preserved.....(something)" are often unrealistic - if well-intentioned. There simply isn't the level of interest overall in this country to keep anything much more than we already have, in operations. Jackie would love to have a regular band of volunteers down in Moyasta, but the boots just aren't on the ground.

Yes, was thinking more of broad gauge - if we go to narrow, we have the above two plus Bord na Mona (obviously!) and Guinness 1'10" gauge; the ESB also.

Indeed. A mess. It should be sent to Dromod.

If they they used the ingenuity and imagination they employ to dream up new problems, instead directed towards making it happen, it’d be done overnight!

Indeed - I initially referred to the narrow gauge, forgot to put the BG on the list. So that’s another. Locomotives?

Compared with the island between us and mainland Europe, with its massive andn varied industries in Victorian times, we had very little in the way of industrial railways, and what few we had were often just short sidings operated by the adjacent railway company. But there were some; the large Guinness and even larger Bord na Mona systems are well known. However, on the 5'3", I'm trying to jog my memory on what there were in the way of privately-owned steam locos working on their own tracks in or near industries. So far, I've got: 1. Courtaulds, Carrickfergus 2. Derry Harbour Commissioners 3. Allman's Distillery, Bandon - the loco of which eventually went to the GSR to shunt the sharply curved quay sidings adjacent to Albert Quay station 4. Carlow, Tuam, Thurles and Mallow sugar factories 5. Shell, Alexandra Rd., the little diesel shunter now at Whitehead Anything else? I'm not counting the 1 horsepower, eco-friendly fuel, green-friendly emission units at Loughgilly, Co. Armagh, and Shannonvale Mill in Co. Cork.... What I have in mind is whether I should get one of those little Peckett 0.4.0STs for a mill near Dugort Harbour.... there's a small scenic corner which could take a siding into it....

My thoughts exactly. I just hope that this whole thing isn't a false dawn; the answer appears to be that all in the know insist that the line very definitely WILL reopen; but equally, not a solitary credible freight flow appears to have been identified. If there is one in the making, one would think that it would be in the public domain by now. If they complete it and run an 071 in, to much fanfare and ribbon-cutting, will it then be quietly abandoned? I hope not. The government's attitude to supporting rail freight in the last decade has not been impressive, and what happens if the next government doesn't include any Green Party in coalition?

Interesting. I've seen / heard locomotives and other things passing by at maybe midnight or 1 am, but never that late. This thing, whatever it was, had tail lights that I could see.....

Absolutely!!!!!

Correct. The GNR often used their own stock on this line as well as the ageing DNGR six-wheelers.

And the real thing didn't have that enormous hand on it either........

If only! I think they’d sell well….. Answer is no, not at the moment. There’s a kit, but it’s only suitable for a highly skilled kit maker.