jhb171achill

Yes. This was standard Victorian-era artistic style for what we now call a "logo" (which is grammatically incorrect anyway!). Incorrectness is no modern phenomenon, as what the railway companies referred to as "crests" are not crests at all - they are coats of arms, surrounded by a garter (the "belt"). On a full "set of arms", you have the shield and crest. The shield is the device which on railway crests is inside the garter. The origins of shield were colours and emblems on the shields of medieval French, Belgian or English warriors going into battle, in order to identify each side or faction. Once the Normans invaded Ireland, the use of such things spread to the old Celtic chieftains here, and obviously once English rule came in after the Cromwellian invasion, they spread further among the landed gentry in particular. By the time railways we invented, these type of devices were the standard type of identification marks for companies, societies and organisations as well as individuals, and anyone wanting to set up a new company would register their new set of arms with the (still extant) College of Arms in London. Since the creation of Northern Ireland in 1921, and independence of the Republic of Ireland, such matters relating to Ireland are attended to via a government office in Dublin. On a railway coat of arms, the shield device generally incorporates the personal arms of company directors or funders, or those of the localities served. Look, for example, at those of the GNR or GSWR and you'll see what I mean. These are surround by a garter, showing the name of the company; while not strictly part of the armorial device, garters became common in order to identify the name of an organisation. Thus, garters would rarely form part of a set of personal arms. So what's an actual crest, as such? A crest, by definition, is something "on top". If you take away a garter, you're left with the shield. Over centuries, many shields became complicated due to the incorporation of a husband's arms with a wife's, on marriage. To simplify identification, a simpler device, like a lion sitting or standing, for example, was placed above the shield. This would be omitted from railway or other companies coats of arms, as the garter identified the owner instead - and more obviously. If you go to the UFTM in Cultra (or whatever it's called now!) you'll see quite a few. But the best collection of Irish coats of arms by far (and I'm delighted to have been able to assist in their acquisition for there) is in Selwyn Johnston's Headhunters Barber Shop and Railway Musuem in Enniskillen; or just plain Enniskillen railway museum. There are many rarities there, and as a MUST for modellers, most are mounted on boards carrying the original railway company paint. Original CIE gree, GSR or NCC maroon, BCDR maroon, GNR loco blue are all there.

First round's yours, then, Tony! :-)

Could be, Railer; a 201 in Bord na Mona livery, anyone? Incidentally, BnM livery - believe it or not - was possibly influenced by the English GWR, the livery of which an early BnM senior person thought looked well!

Folks, we've 11 confirmed now including myself. One of our number has kindly offered a lift for up to 3 others from Belfast. Another of our number is coming from Derry, so some link up for anyone else up there might be possible. Six are (as far as I'm aware) from the greater Dublin area, so nearer the time when we confirm that all showing an interest are actually planning to go, we can perhaps organise a second car. To hire a minibus for the day would be pricey unless we had maybe 25 people. I'm thinking Saturday 20th June, though 27th might also be an option. Can we say 20th, unless anyone feels strongly otherwise?

Having contacts in tourism myself, I can confirm that the whole "troubles tourism" and "graffiti tours" up the Shankill and down the Falls are not (mercifully!) as popular as they were. Personally, I'd say good riddance to the lot. The north has a lot more to offer than "art" sprawled across walls displaying Neanderthal bigotry.

Can we suspect a maroon livery? This seems quite popular with touring trains of this type elsewhere in the world. A claret-type colour is seen as "traditional". Certainly, in Ireland, it is for all major companies bar the GNR and CBSCR; and they'll hardly be visiting the latter!

Here's what I'm proposing, though it's not hard and fast. If a majority want it altered, or if anyone has any other suggestions for what they might like to see, please email me. For example, if we left earlier and got back a bit later, and were prepared to cough up a donation to the railway of maybe £10 / €15 each, an extra train might be possible with a requested loco as haulage. That would have to be firmed up nearer the time, though, as obviously allowance has to be made for the DCDR's ongoing maintenance and restoration programme. ________________________________________________________________ IRISH RAILWAY MODELLER’S GROUP TOUR TO DCDR Saturday 20th June 2015 The purpose of this trip is for a day out for IRM members, but also for the purpose of having a tailor-made day for modellers to photograph and measure for modelling purposes not only what’s immediately to be seen, but behind the scenes as well. As well as a journey behind diesel and steam (loco allocations permitting), and a possibility of footplate rides in the diesel, the day's events can be specifically arranged for measurement and detailed photography, as well as possible sound recordings. Depart Dublin 0900 Arrive Downpatrick 1200 - Lunch - Initial tour of shed to photograph locomotives being prepared for the day (probably steam No. 1 and either 146 or A39). - 1400 train to Inch Abbey and back; 141 or A class haulage, depending on majority preference I will arrange. Cab rides possible depending on numbers. Return to Downpatrick at 1430. - 1445 Steam train to Inch Abbey and back, returning to Downpatrick at 1515. - Tour of loco sheds to see locos not in use on the day (steam No. 1, three “G” class, C231 and whichever main line diesel is not having a turn on the day. Also viewing the three-car NIR “Castle” class set and the railbus. - Tour of carriage gallery to view steam No. 90 (ex GSWR “J30” class), fully restored BCDR coaches 148 (1897) and 72 (1905, the “Holywood Railmotor”). In addition, several other interesting preserved vehicles including two complete MGWR six-wheelers in unrestored state, allowing participants to view actual CIE green, GSR maroon, MGWR brown and MGWR blue paint. - Tour of ex-NCC signal box. Depart Downpatrick approximately 1730, with stop for food (optional!) en route back to Dublin. We should arrive back in Dublin at about 2030, including time for meal break en route. If the majority don’t need a break, then we’d be back about 30-45 minutes earlier. For participants from Belfast area, bus to Downpatrick and meet up there at maybe 12? There’s an hourly service, which takes about an hour, so a bus at 1000 or 1100 would be about right. Cost: €8 or £6, plus travel costs, all payable on the day, for the two return train trips plus all the rest. For those travelling from Dublin, Drogheda, Dundalk or Newry, a share of petrol money which will depend on how many are going. __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ About ten have so far expressed an interest. If more do, it might be worthwhile to hire a minibus in Dublin, or perhaps two other members might volunteer to drive. For information, a typical car uses about €40 of petrol doing a return trip from Dublin to the Downs of Patrick. That's €8 a head and say €4 from Dundalk / Newry. I'm not sure what the bus fare is from Belfast, but the Translink website will, I am sure, be a mine of information on that one!

3 so far....

If you mean the online one, as opposed to long defunct paper magazine, it's still very much up and running, I'm glad to say, though with so little happening on a railway with little freight, few locomotives and railcars from Portrush to Midleton, few people ever post anything there. In fact, it's from there that I lifted the above post this morning. Just google (all one word) irishrailwaynews.

Might be able to get a footplate run in too...... Sssh! Recording possibilities for sound chips possibly? Though don't ask me what way the technology works! :-)

I lifted this from an old post on IRN: It just shows how much has changed in a very short time....... 31/08/2007: 146 - on pilot duties at Inchicore Works (in training for modern-day pilot duties at Downpatrick!) 160 - on pilot duties at Dublin Connolly 163 - on pilot duties at Dublin Heuston 170 - on pilot duties at Dublin Heuston 189 - on pilot duties at Inchicore Works 192 - on pilot duties at Inchicore Works 141+187 worked empty timber from Waterford to North Wall (bound for Sligo) And a few more were out on ballast duties on the WRC!

PM me if interested.

Folks With an eye on other threads relating to working heritage diesels and MGWR carriages, I will organise a tour of the railway, incorporating a trip over the line, on a date which suits the majority of whoever is interested. The purpose will be to allow "behind-the-scenes" access to all areas to facilitate photography, measuring and general research into all that is there for modelling purposes. This would incorporate locomotives, rolling stock, the signal box, and station buildings. Even "yellow machines". Depending on numbers, we'll arrange transport accordingly. The only cost apart from sharing petrol will be a £6 (€8) admission the the railway. If it's of any interest? Date to be confirmed, but probably some time in June, as I'll be up to my eyes after that. I would envisage meeting in Dublin, picking up in Drogheda, Dundalk and Newry, and joining with anyone from Belfast. If the numbers are just one or two and all in Lisburn / Belfast area, I can arrange pick up there too.

Excellent, Jawfin. That is indeed MGWR blue, a truly remarkable survivor. As you can see, the coach remains in extremely faded CIE green. That particular sample is badly faded, however, and there is a tiny spot (possibly on the other coach?) where it can be seen a little better, along with nearby MGWR brown, and of course there are numerous spots on both where not only these colours, but GSR maroon and traces of lining may be seen. If anyone's interested, PM me and the next time I'm in the north I'll try to organise a "guided tour" of the place for any modellers who want to come along or meet.

That'll be the first purpose built observation coach in Ireland, presumably....

Plus the beet.....

If you look at some of the 21mm layouts about, the extra effort is very, very well worth if; that said, it's not for an amateur like I would be myself! David Holman's SLNCR is inspirational, and others on both 4mm and 7mm scales with correct gauge track are truly superb. Ian, you'll find no shortage among those here of advice, tips and shared skills. You've privately pinged me already; please feel free to do so via my private email which I gave you and I will provide what assistance I can. Look at the links on this site to manufacturers like SSM models and others. Kits are available, as Mayner mentioned, of a number of things suitable for you, and a recent post showed a truly superb six-wheeler made out of a couple of Hornby "Thomas" four wheelers, so alterations of manufactured stuff is also an option if you go for ordinary 00 scale.

Some, or most, ended up in lined green in CIE days, and I think at least one might have been black (rather than grey) towards the end. Obviously, before the late 40s, all grey.

Indeed, Leslie — that was an excellent little volume, as was its GNR companion. Looking forward to seeing you on the tour - got the seating plan finished last night so your ticket should wing its way imminently! To anyone else travelling on the RPSI May Tour, that applies to you too......

jhb171senior always had a soft spot for the 400s... Much ignored by modellers, they were the mainstay of Dublin - Cork services for many years - probably the most ignored express locomotives in Ireland!

Oh yes.................. I meant to say. I have a sample of MGWR red station paint, and of GSR green for the same purpose. I can also arrange for you to see both MGWR brown and the "Tourist Express" blue at Downpatrick, if you're ever in a position to visit there. So, colour wise, in Midland days you're looking at a livery for stations of almost British Post Office red and cream; the red would be on footbridges too, and the cream on wooden fencing. Carriages were a mid brown all over with (initially) white roofs, which didn't stay white, so weathering is a must on all but maybe one roof! Chassis black, carriage ends brown like body sides. Lettering and lining were gold, though for a while in later days (approximately 1910-8) yellow was used for lining for economy. In 1918 (or possibly 1915 - haven't been able to establish exactly) the MGWR changed to a very deep maroon, probably not unlike the dark crimson lake the GSWR used. Lining and lettering remained the same. If you follow matters DCDR, look at the (accurate GSWR) paint of coaches 836 and 1097, and maybe go a slight shade lighter. Locomotives were a shade of green, the details of which I got from the late Bob Clements. This was darker than Isle of Man green, but considerably lighter than CIE loco green. So if you look ta an Isle of Man green "Ailsa" period loco, and go a shade darker, you're about right. Clements offered to give me a sample of it had some twenty five years ago or so, but he died before I was able to call with him and it was thrown out! Around 1905-10, a few locos appeared in royal blue with black and white lining, and some coaches (by no means all - only a few) were repainted this blue on lower panels, with white on upper; ends plain blue, lining in gold, lettering in shaded gold. Must have looked amazing. The MGWR painted wagons a dark grey, darker than latter-day CIE by some margin. Not quite the slate grey / black of the GSWR, though. One of Henry Casserley's pictures taken at Achill in 1934 shows a DSER wagon, still in that company's livery and lettering; the grey on it is dark too. I would go for a shade in between GSR locomotive grey and LMS wagon grey. Unfortunately, the exact details of the shade haven't survived. Now I'd better go and have me lunch. Do PM me if you've any questions.

It's morning. I've calmed down. Right. Where do we start. Mulrany (or Mallaranny) has a lot going for it as a layout for a number of reasons. 1. Scenic setting 2. Ease of operation 3. Simple track plan. but with enough to provide interesting through traffic and station shunting 4. Original building - or most of it - still accessible to photograph 5. Sufficient photographic evidence to assist the modeller 6. Throughout its (short) life, the station didn't change, therefore you can set it in MGWR or GSR times without changing the track layout or buildings. The one and only significant change in the station's appearance in all of its life was the GSR repaint of station woodwork from MGWR pillar-box red and cream to GSR dark green and dark cream. If there could be said to be any "cons" as opposed to "pros", that would be locomotives and rolling stock, of which nothing at all is available as RTR. If the accuracy of locomotives, carriages and wagons isn't an issue, then no problem. If it is, then what you would need to consider is conversions or scratchbuilds of MGWR six-wheelers, as these constituted virtually the entire passenger stock until GSR days. Prior to 1925, bogies were almost unknown and would only have appeared once or twice a year - if that - on a harvestman's emigration special, some of which loaded to 6 coaches. Locomotives were all J26 type 0.6.0T prior to 1905, and D16 4.4.0 "Achill Bogie" afterwards. The D16 was quite a small 4.4.0 and I'm sure there is some proprietary model which might be altered to look close enough. (The black and white lining on the green livery might be fiddly, though many on these boards would be able to prove me well wrong on that count). For the modeller, GSR days provide a little more variety in the form of an occasional ex-GSWR D17 4.4.0, but overall on account of lightweight trackwork, very few loco classes were allowed. Also, all locos would be plain all-over grey. A layout set in about 1927 might be interesting, as some locos would still be in MGWR green, others in new plain grey. Perhaps one might carry the short lived lined "royal blue". With a typical train service then consisting of two sets, which tended to cross in Newport though facilities always existed at Mulrany, two locomotives would be a minimum. Depending on space, fiddle yard or cash and modelling reserves, half a dozen might be good. A D16 in MGWR green, one in blue and one in all-grey. Plus a grey (GSWR) D17, and two J26 tanks, one each in green and grey. Carriages would have a standard first, second and third plus a full brake or brake third in each train set - all six wheeled. After the mid 1910s, it tended to be two six-wheelers and a brake instead of the aforementioned: a three coach set instead of four. All would be brown, unless you're setting it in the mid 1910s where for a brief time, some (maybe just one on the layout) would be blue and white (not cream) with gold lining. While the "Tourist Express" never went to Achill, coaches painted thus appeared now and again all over the Midland system, a bit like an "Enterprise" liveried 201 turning up on a timber train in Waterford. (Belmond 201 on the weedspray in Navan, anyone?) Modeller's Licence could have the Tourist Train travelling to Achill. Had it done so, a destination might well have been Mulrany itself, due to the railway company's hotel there, rather than Achill, so turning it and stabling it would be a possibility, as would the use of modeller's licence to allow larger MGWR express engines to arrive, e.g. the big "Mail Engines" (drooling recommences). Freight traffic in Mulrany was by far the lightest on the line, with barely a wagon a day in GSR days. Yet, the place retained both its sidings until the end. The goods shed was of interesting construction too, as was the signal box, with a large store attached. At the time the line was opened, cattle traffic was initially buoyant on fair days but this declined soon after, as the emphasis moved away from the small cattle fair there to those at Achill Sound and, above all, Newport; the latter remaining very busy until closure. In fact, goods traffic was so busy at closure time that serious consideration was given to retaining Westport - Newport as a good-only line, as much incoming mixed goods was apparent as well as outgoing cattle. On a model, why not Mulrany instead? Another "might-have-been" for Mulrany was turf traffic, which was being proposed just as closure was being planned. A Bord na Mona style operation was proposed a few miles on the Newport side, though it never even began to provide enough to fill a few wagons a week at most. Could a 3ft gauge turf line, on a model, feed turf to Mulrany's goods siding? A few thoughts and ideas off the top of my head. If I think of more I'll post accordingly. I often thought of doing a layout based on Achill as if it had survived into the 70s, allowing me to run a branch train of a 141, a Park Royal and a tin van - or the like.

Good work all round!

Michael McMahon's detailed tome on GSR locos is a good place to start.

A layout based on Mallaranny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I can't answer this post at all, as I am drowning in drooling at the prospect..... There are huge possibilities in modelling. D16 4.4.0's, six wheeled Midland coaches, and as for the wagons!! Ian, PM me and I'll answer in detail when I calm down....... ......and, I can show you actual MGWR brown paint, which was a shade darker than LNER or GNR (I).