jhb171achill

Note to moderator: I'm not exactly sure where best to post this, but I'll leave it in your capable hands. To the modelling community: these are rough scans. If you PM me I can get you decent copies.

They certainly do look grey, BSGSV. I think the leading one is just weathered, and thus did make prime black look greyish. But as you say, the next one and the van look grey. It's possible a few were done like that, but also possible it's weathering. Certainly, black was the official version. In model making, roofs can take on all manner of weathered characteristics. Look at how many CDRJC and GNR locos appear to have black domes; all were painted red! (or blue). In recent timed, orange-painted loco and coach roofs often looked dirty. Equally, nice shiny black hot dumbed down pretty quick. Green CIE roofs - no. Above black / grey - for me, I'd say the jury's out! Interesting.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]17238[/ATTACH] There's Bessbrook & Newry in the midst of this lot. [ATTACH=CONFIG]17239[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]17240[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]17241[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]17242[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]17242[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]17243[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]17244[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]17245[/ATTACH]

Top two from CIE 1972 WTT. Below from 1935 GSR Appendix to WTT. UTA 1965 WTT below.....

Interesting, Broithe.....! Here's more..... CIE stuff is 1972 WTT if I remember correctly - maybe '73.

Clifden line timetable above from the MGWR 1920 working time table. More from this source:

Anyone ever hear of the Cleator & Workington Junction Railway? I have a large collection of the tops of headed paper, the logos and railway names off envelopes, and suchlike. This is but one example.

The further meanderings through the shelves..... The CIE timetable of Ballinacourty is 1973.

That's back when pussy was a kitten........!

True. My father, aunt and grandparents spent many years going back and forth to that area here they had relatives, and spent many summer holidays there. Senior was taken to see the "stolen remains" in the 1920s, at which time much was still visible. Here's more stuff. GSR crest on later (post 1933) GSR maroon paint, and an old railway letter seal of ancient parentage...

The "green-roofed" items were confined entirely to the railcar world, and the description is actually misleading. It was just the front part of the roof, ie the curved bit, which was green, and in at least one example which I saw photographed in West Cork, there were stripes on this green patch which looked to me to possibly be pale yellow. I would be extremely doubtful if any dining car had any green on its roof. West Clare railcars were an exception to normal rules. Both the dark green and the later lighter green were carried; in neither case was there either "snail" or lining of any kind. In some cases these had all-black roofs, in others all-green. If any 5' 3" gauge vehicle ever had a completely green roof, it would have been an extremely short lived one-off experiment, a bit like the one "A" class which for a very short time had an orange, instead of red, buffer beam. In such a case, they were possibly vehicles included in a railcar set. In 1959, some railcars still wore the dark green, and would have been undergoing repainting into the lighter green. This is when the amendments you mention would have taken place.

I know..... no matter what I do, either they, me, my iPad, or you the reader - are upside down. To prove the point, here we go again:

A few more odds and ends....

That's the man. I had forgotten, myself, what his actual role was....

There is an extremely comprehensive set of photographs showing every stage of construction of this loco, taken by one of Bullied's cronies, in the National Railway Museum archives in York.

That's stunning! Looks real.

When built, they carried a shade of green not unlike that on the RPSI's 461 now - it was described as "mid-green" with frames etc, and wheels, all green. Lining was black and yellow, and number and name plates polished rims and numerals on dark blue backgrounds, as on 800 in Cultra. The tender had the letters "G S" in cream, with the full colour GSR crest mounted between them. When CIE took over, they received standard CIE green, as can now be seen on 800, in fact the paint job on it is authentic, having been done in Inchicore before it left CIE ownership; thus, obviously, the black and white CIE lining is authentic! CIE replaced the GS and crest with a standard gold-lined, light green "flying snail". They repainted the backgrounds on the numberplates from blue to red on 801 and 802, but not 800, which remained blue until withdrawal. Modellers beware: 800 as it is in Cultra has CIE livery, but G S on the tender instead of a "snail". The UFTM put that there. If it was to be in GSR livery, the green would be lighter and more blueish tinted, and the lining would be yellow and black.

Very interesting, bsgsv. I had often wondered about not only that, but a few other aberrations in the GSW numerical list. The MGWR seemed a little more clear on what was rebuilt or not, but there has been a tradition at Inchicore from GSWR times right through to the present day of vehicles appearing in various incarnations, with up to three or four running numbers, within their lifetime. The Enterprise genny vans are the latest!

Wow!!!!!!!! Think how space-age they must have looked when new in an Inchicore populated 100% by plain grey, unlined, unnamed locomotives of all shapes and sizes.....

So, am I right in thinking that if the Dun Laoghaire city fathers believe they can attract cruise ships, since same won't fit, it means said city fathers are even thicker than most local politicians? And that's saying something!! :-)

It became an ambulance vehicle, from memory, early sixties but I'd have to check for sure. It was originally a tricompo. If you look at the compartment side window profile, and the first two compartments you'll see they have wider seats and more leg room. They were firsts. Next compartments were second class, and there was another 2nd class compartment where the (RPSI installed) disabled loo now is. The open bit was always thus, with fixed seats, third class. The conversion for Knock Specials was achieved by removing these seats and installing double doors each side instead of single doors.

Love the weathering, Nelson - extremely realistic.

Experience with cruise liners worldwide shows that while any country where they land does indeed benefit, the port area often doesn't because, as mentioned above, the people simply get out of the tub and into a bus, to go and spend their dollars inland. The benefit to the actual port of Dun Laoghaire of cruise ship passengers is, I hope, likely to be tangible, but I wouldn't get over excited by it....

Broadly speaking, GSWR carriages built before about 1910 had the roof profile as seen on 836, or for those who have been inside the RPSI's Mullingar Shed, 813. Later, the higher distinctive design as seen on 1287, 1097 and 1142. These were not built for the Rosslare Express - they were later. The special set (five carriages) for the Rosslare Express were specially constructed at Inchicore for that purpose in 1906. The RPSI's 861, currently under long term restoration, is the sole survivor, one of very very few twelve-wheeled carriages ever to run in Ireland. The livery 836 used to have was not correct, in that it wouldn't have had cream upper panels, and the lining had the wrong colours and style. The procedure regarding liveries for these coaches was this: the GSWR's standard livery was as shown on 836 now - this is authentic - sadly, one of the few properly authentic liveries in preservation. After the Rosslare Express was introduced, white upper panels began to appear on main line stock (which would not include carriages like 836). However, the popularity of this was such that it began to spread to other main line stock also, and by the time the GSWR was about to become part of the GSR, it was widespread. For obvious reasons, few if any six-wheelers received the cream upper panels. It is likely that 1142 and 1097 had cream upper panels originally, but not certain; they could well have been placed in traffic in plain "lake". When the GSWR took over everything, for a short while Broadstone (deep maroon by then - not dissimilar) and Grand Canal Street (mid-maroon) just used up what paint they had, but with the new GSR numerals, crest and lining style borrowed straight from Inchicore, but this soon gave way to a deep maroon for all, i.e., as far as GSWR stock was concerned, a bit lighter and more reddish. I suspect it was similar to what the MGWR had been using since they abandoned brown in 1918. Just as the GSWR had its own "main line" style, soon the GSR followed suit, and very soon a GWR-style chocolate and cream scheme was introduced for main line stock only - other stock remained the deep maroon. GSR crests, large class numerals on doors, and gold shaded coach numbers were standard on both liveries. The only difference was that the GSR used black lining on the choc / cream livery instead of gold on the rest. Once the "steels" (the wooden framed but steel-clad "Bredins") came out, the initial batch in 1933, then more in 1935 and 1937, the company introduced a new livery for carriages which was as good as identical to the English LMS, and by extension, the NCC. This mid-maroon, which modellers may purchase in any shop in England that advertises authentic "LMS red", was a good bit lighter than the old shade. By degrees, everything started being painted in this colour, six-wheelers and all; no cream or cream panels on any of it. Lining was identical to LMS style. Now we're into 1945 and the dark Brunswick green of CIE appears, with light green lines above and below windows; the upper one being thicker than the lower one. these, as well as numerals and "snails" were themselves lined in gold. Hope that helps.

Wow! excellent