jhb171achill

....and yes, at least one Muskerry loco was indeed never repainted by the GSR. That's another I had forgotten! Old age is a terrible thing....

90 was repainted late in its career - about 1956 or 7. Two good colour shots I have seen show in one case what looks to be black, in another a somewhat darker shade of grey than the standard. It received an approximation of a GSWR livery which predated even this veteran before it went on display, but after leaving traffic. 184 was technically withdrawn but still usable when it was steamed in Inchicore in an even more peculiar (and utterly inaccurate) livery in the early 60s. Mayner's points are interesting - I had forgotten those one, and there could have been other late repaints as I mentioned initially. In trains of later post 1955 CIE repaints with black in a few cases, or darker grey, I was thinking originally more of GSR days rather than CIE. CBPR livery was black, lined red. All four of their locos got all over grey before they went to the C & L. At least one mid-50s repaint certainly looked black, though I would be equally inclined to think it was very dirty grey. On the other hand, 6T did indeed appear to have been repainted black by CIE. The W & T 2.2.2T was indeed an interesting case in many different ways! I always thought a layout based on this line in the 1930s would be as fascinating as any layout can be. Eye witnesses reported it (and its colleagues) as standard GSR grey, but as Mayner says, not the usual "sheep-dipped" treatment, as dome etc. were to remain polished.

True. Some of the models actually running - the modern ones, not Fry's actual models - were extremely poor. Fry himself, an absolute stickler for perfection and accuracy, wouldn't have recognised them.....

Which reminds me...... I was sitting minding my own business in an 80 on my way home from work one time and there had been some sort of "do" somewhere, and the train was full - as were many of the passengers. Sitting opposite me, and across in the adjacent seating bay, were a group of Scottish gentlemen. Well, they were Scottish. They were very drunk, very abusive, shouting sectarian obscenities, and using the foullest of language in front of young mothers and children. The conductor would have been unable to tackle them alone, but before he got the chance, the train stopped routinely at Finaghy. A group of large, well built, local males approached them and left them in no doubt as to how many of their limbs would be broken in many parts, if not severed, if they did not get off the train. Here. Right NOW. Given the nature of what they had been shouting about, Finaghy was probably not the best place for them to go sightseeing. It was still during the "Troubles". They got off the train, and the local youths got a vigorous round of applause.....

As I've often said before, as have others, it's attention to detail like this which makes an already good model absolutely top notch. For some reason, most models I've ever seen of 80s tend not to be the most convincing. But this is (as is the other painted one you showed) and it's especially good to see how it evolved out of ruthless chopping and butchery of old Mk 2's. Now all you need is a crowd of cider-fuelled yahoos sitting inside on their way back from a Saturday festival in Portrush, or a football match in Portadown!

No chance of revitalising the loco shed and filling it with working J15s and W & L 4.4.0s?

That's correct, Minister. With a stock of over 400 locomotives and the lack of money in those days, overnight repainting was never going to happen. What I had in mind the above, though, was locos that remained well into GSR days, or even into CIE, which never were repainted in grey at all. 90 and all its sisters received grey before withdrawal. As one might expect, locos on the narrow gauge lines and the W & T took a while to all be repainted. Former GSWR ones had already been under the grey sheep-dip treatment since about 1918 by the time the GSR was formed. Jhb171-Senior has no recollection of seeing a former DSER or GSWR loco still in pre-grey liveries, despite bring very familiar with both the Harcourt Street line, and the innards of Inchicore Works, from the early 20s. He does, however, vaguely recall GSWR coaches still in their old livery. Apparently there was an old passenger van in tattered GSWR livery still pottering about in or around Kingsbridge well into the 30s. Probably others elsewhere too.

In answering a query about the Cavan & Leitrim recently, something occurred to me in the form of some substance for a quiz question! Question: "How many GSR locomotives were not grey?" First likely answer: "Three. The 800 class". Wrong. Think again. "Oh yes! Four, including the 800s and the little shunter at Albert Quay which the company got from Allman's Distillery in Bandon to use as a Cork docks shunter, put a standard number plate on, but never repainted". Wrong. Think again. "Ah! Now I have it. The C & L's "King Edward", which through hardly ever being used, and scrapped early on, retained C & L lined green to the last" Correct. Douze points. (Or - were there other non-greys in GSR times?)

Having once had a (small) G scale garden railway, I'm still interested in such things. Some of the American ones have to be seen to be believed. There are numerous YouTube clips showing things like a "Big Boy" hauling over 100 freight cars. I don't think that would even fit in my garden, let alone get a run round.

That's the one, Glenderg! In dealing with unrelated matters recently, I discovered that NIR officially called these the "110" class, not the "111" class! On the company's original drawings of them, they are thus described.

Absolutely superb and thoroughly original - very well done. As in the best of the best layouts, the attention to detail is what makes it. Tractor track marks in mud, puddles and rubbish lying about! Perfect!

Thankfully, the spirit of Henry Forbes was more the norm than waste. Most Irish railways over the years have been much more disposed to recycle than waste. With the best will in the world, all the above "turkeys" have been born out of a genuinely perceived need, and I suppose railway management like the rest of us can't get it right all the time. Think of the money spent on the various high speed trains (like, for example, the British "Advanced Passenger Train") which never ran, or the criminal waste of money in BR building so many fine standard steam locos in the 1950s, only to withdraw and scrap them as little as 7 or 8 years later.... Other countries likewise.... USA for example. Meanwhile, in this country we have recycled several Mk 3 genny vans for the Enterprise. It's tempting to think that elsewhere other railway administrations would have scrapped them and ordered new builds. Sometimes a lack of money is a good thing when it comes to waste avoidance! Now, of course, against that to some extent is the scrapping of the Mk 3 fleet. But nobody wanted to buy them!

"...Smells of fudge. Quelle surprise... " Or fish.....

Interesting, josefstadt (and others).... I think it was an 071 that hauled that PWI train. Jhb171-senior was on it (as a PWI member; probably the oldest surviving PWI (Irish Branch) member there is, having started his working life on the GSR!) He took pictures of the train in Lisburn. Must try to dig them out.... Not easy, in the middle of a house move, but we'll see!!!!

I would doubt if the NIR stock and CIE stock were both in use. A bit like the exceptionally rare instances of a few Cravens being stuck on the back of a Mk 2 set, the stragglers were locked off.

Sorry to hear that, Seamus. May she rest in peace.

I'd say its a clearance run all right.

A forthcoming book will cover this in colour, Dee. PM me.

Having seen some of what they have preserved over there, I have to say I'm very taken by the LNWR "coal tank", the LSWR 4.4.2T, and the Isle of Wight 0.4.4T's! Not to mention Black 5's...... Pretty good stuff for narrow gauge.....

Not sure, probably a Presidential jaunt; brand new laminates behind. Whatever it is, it's the only pic I ever recall seeing with double headed "A"s, unless that was just a photo opportunity.

Good to see it all available. It was Jimmy O'Dea's wish that his collection would be made as public as possible instead of being salted away or jealously guarded by whoever ended up with them. Other photographers still living have very generously made their collections available over the internet - these have been mentioned here in links from time to time. My own experiences, before NLI managed to get any of Jimmy's stuff, was that their staff were more than helpful in making material available to anyone who made an appointment to view it. I am sure most photographers would be keen to see their collections shared in to way after they had gone to the Great Loco Shed in the Sky.....

There have been many, over the years. The Cavan and Leitrim's last loco, No. 9 "King a Edward" (a huge chunky 0.6.4T) was rarely used and scrapped after (I think) less than ten years, because it was too heavy for the track. My grandmother remembered that it remained in its original green paintwork all its life until the GSR took it away to be scrapped. Even the CDRJC, known for its obsessive recycling of everything, bought a tram body for conversion to a railcar trailer, but found it unsuitable and broke it up.

He looks as if he needs a bit of weathering....

Likely to be well weathered in traffic, especially post war. Use standard LMS grey.

Old Blarney, I wouldn't take that abuse. You should have reported him to the RIC.....