jhb171achill

That's got to be the best weathering jobs I've ever seen... the graffitie'd one makes me want to go out and find whoever is spraying them and tie him to the rails! And yet, it would look fantastic on any layout. Was there (I hope not!) a prototypical graffiti job as bad as that on a loco?

Yes, 186 was done by these morons. Disgusting.

Frank - about half, maybe just over half, were brown. Yes, the fitted / unfitted idea was the same here, though beware: from memory (open to correction),wagons started being fitted before the brown started, so it was possible (I am nearly sure) to get fitted grey ones. Those wagons left in grey by the early to mid 70s generally had CIE roundels, but there were more than a few faded "snails" about. Not so much on cattle trucks, though - more on standard covered "H" vans. Beware also the modellers (and preservationists!) frequent error of picking chassis and body ironwork out in black! This was standard on most British companies, but you will see from photos it was almost unknown in Ireland at any time, right up to the end. If you ever saw a newly painted grey, or brown, CIE wagon - just like today wheels, bogies, buffers and couplings - everything - is "sheep dipped" in the body colour, roof and all. Chassis would of course get discoloured a brownish colour by brake dust, while roofs turned darker due to wear and tear and loco exhausts. Roofs should almost always, and certainly always in later years, be the same as the body colour

W O W!!!!! that is amazingly realistic!

Excellent work - keep 'er lit!

Very realistic!

There was a similar type of book published a couple of years ago about the greater Dublin area. All in black and white, but some amazing and long-forgotten pics. Can't remember title, but it was in the RPSI book stock on the tour. Re the Midlands, anything's possible!

GSWR D14 (4.4.0), MGWR D16 (4.4.0), GSR B1a (800 class 4.6.0), CDR Class 5 (2.6.4T), GM 121 class. Ah, there's more. MGW J26 (0.6.0T), GNR(I) "S" Class 4.4.0, Tralee & Dingle Nos 1-3 (2.6.0T), Cavan and Leitrim 4.4.0T, DSER (RPSI!) 461, "Bandon Tank" 4.6.0T, Isle of Man 2.4.0 tank locos, and my all-time favourite loco, an Indonesian 3ft 6in gauge "B50" class 2.4.0T, a wood-burning 2.4.0 tender looco, some examples of which survived in passenger traffic as late as 1987. Or an Indian Railways YP 4.6.2 metre gauge express passenger loco.

My recollection is also of a mixed bag, though in later years the vast majority seemed to have separate short ones.

This weekend, DCDR and Down Museum host "Railways At War" again, after a very successful pilot a couple of years ago. Courtesy of a DCDR member resident in Dublin, a "taxi service" will be provided for limited numbers in Dublin. You will b e picked up and left back to your door. The cost for the trip to Downpatrick plus an all-day ticket on the DCDR is €30. Numbers are very limited and this trip will only operate if every seat is filled. Please email jhb171@aol.com to express interest. Departure time will be finalised later. The trip will operate (subject to support) on Sunday 3rd June only. Modellers will be able to have access to non-operating rolling stock and locos through guided tours though inspection of operating locos / stock will only be possible from normal public platform positions. See ye there!

FrankS - the green used by British Railways on steam locos would be somewhat closer. SR green is a quite unique (though attractive) shade. But there vwere several definite versions of SR green - one more limey / yellowy, the other more like the BR. The pic of A2 above is somewhat lighter than the pre-55 green, and somewhat darker than the later; however this could be due to the vagaries of the internet. If it is called BR multiple unit green, that would indeed be the case. The darker CIE green can be seen on Loco 800 in the Ulster Folk and Transport Museum. That said, the pic of A2 above looks very well indeed and has been very well finished. At the end of the day, the only arbiter on what colour your models would be, is your good self; if it's right for you, then it's right! I wish you well with your endeavours.

The wagons referred to first were made from old long-wheelbase CIE flats. Only one of the carriages had an interior; the bodies were of little more than plywood but really looked the part. They were loosely modelled on what would have been running on railways out of London in the 1850s - the time and place the film was set. The BR-liveried carriages pictured in scenes of "Educating Rita" were done in Pearse (Westland Row) and are CIE "laminate" type carriages of the day. As mentioned above, they were painted on one side in water-soluble (and washable) paint; very convincingly too. The scenes in the "Quiet Man" are true gems, showing a GSWR "60 class" in steam, and showing carriages of varying GSW and MGW origin. The station paintwork, footbridge detail and painted stones round flower beds, as well as the grey paintwork on the loco and 1945-55 period darker CIE green livery are very accurately shown. This should all be of great interest to modellers. The only thing non-authentic is the "Castletown" station nameboard. As most here will know, the scenes were filmed at Ballyglunin, between Athenry and Tuam.

The flying snail lasted on some wagons (always grey) well into the 80's - I photo'd several in Ballina about then. CIE wagons were grey all over (note - NEVER black chassis / buffers / metalwork - a common mistake as British wagons had black in those places). Roofs were grey too - but got dirty. Vacuum braked stock started being painted (again, ALL OVER) brown in the early 70s, and as loose coupled stuff was withdrawn, everything surviving became brown, so that by the mid 70s after which loose coupled stock was withdrawn, brown became the norm. By the mid 80s, wagons only carried stencilled numbers and the application of CIE roundel logos was discontinued just before IR / IE took over - under their watch (post '87), no logo has been put on wagons. Exceptions were the initially blue Tara wagons, the dark green and white ammonia wagons, and the cement bubbles. The latter started in grey, then became orange, then cream with "Irish Cement" on them; latterly all over covering in cement obliterated any livery. All repaints of Taras were brown, until graffiti artists and dirt rendered them livery-less.

Morons indeed. The same raggle taggled people who "occupy" places and say that their defacement is "art".

That's the thing.... three weekly inspections will be no deterrent to whatever scumbags - ethnic or not - want to steal stuff like this. Insurance will be claimed, shoulders shrugged, and life goes on. A few less valuable or irreplaceable artefacts, a few slightly better off scumbags with a few more shillings to spend on drink and drugs. Ho hum! Sooner the scrap trade is regulated - and the harder it hits unethical ethnic scrap dealers - the better.

A nice touch on a layout might be a heavily vandalised coach, and beside it a van load of cops pinning the yobs, spray cans and all, against the side of the coach while they put cuffs on them! I saw alayout once at an exhibition and a detail outside the station showed a parking warden arguing with a driver who was parked on a double yello line... looked well!

I would agree. A 141-class at €100 might be better around €80.....???

Hahah could be, Broithe! Years ago there used to be a rumour that whenever the GNR needed to paint a loco in Dundalk, they went to the nearest paint supplier and got the closest they had! In reality, the myth couldn't have been further from the truth, as the GNR was very meticulous about paint shades being exact, and even employed a paint chemist / specialist, part of whose remit was to ensure the maintenance of such standards. I knew hom as a youth, alas, he is now in that Great Locomotive Shed in the sky; surrounded, no doubt, by endless blue 4.4.0s hauling varnished carriages around.................

Actually the first cable theft i've heard of it Ireland.... I wonder if there have been others. In South Africa a few years ago, a devasting blow was made to the preservation movement there when several stored ssteam locos in full working order were almost scrapped by thieves. They knew what they were at, and the locos were left with axles cut up, etc etc, boilers wrecked, beyond restoration. And over there it seems that scrap thieves are even armed at times. DCDR is currently improving its fencing and has CCTV installed - this work was already in progress. Perhaps the inability of thieves to get into the newly securer Downpatrick station and area persuaded these scumbags to go almost 2 miles out the south line looking for what's stored out there. I remembere standing in the yard with the railway's Publicity Officer a few years ago and as we stood there, scumbags threw stones and broke the window of a Wickham car. We chased them. It is very lucky indeed for them that we did not catch them!

Waffles, I can't help you with which brand of paint best matches it, but there were several shades of green! From inception of CIE to the mid 50s, the green was a dark brunswick green, with light green bands above and below window level. These light bands, as well as the "flying snail" logo, and numerals and numbers to denote class, were all lined in gold. The gold-lined "snail" can be seen now on the RPSI's loco 461. From about 1955/6, the lighter green started to appear. This was accompanied again by the light green "snail" and numerals, but by now with just a single thin light green line along the waist line. It may be noted that from 1950, some dark green vehicles had variations. AEC railcars carried the thin waist line from the start, never the two broader bands. Narrow gauge coaches were exceptions too: while two Schull & Skib four wheelers got the full livery, Cavan & Leitrim coaches had a single light-coloured band above window level, with none below. West Clare coaches, including Tralee & Dingle imports and the railcars and trailers, had all over green with no lining at all. The railcars and trailers didn't have snails either. Some very old coaches in West Cork had strange variations, such as one bogie with all ov er dark green, no lining, and two white "snails"! Plenty of room for manoevre for you! Hope that helps. The lighter shade of CIE green (post '55) can be seen on the RPSI's Dublin[-based wooden carriage set.

Scrap prices are quite high now, and this will encourage the sort of filth who carry out these raids. Hopefully the PSNI will be successful in tracking them down. As an aside, the whole scrap trade needs to be regulated. Currently you can walk into any scrapyard and they'll weigh what you have and pay you cash, or cheques that can be cashed. In an age where money-laundering detection is up there with health & safety for strictness in compliance, this is a very obvious loophole.

FrankS - mid sixties is an interesting era. You can have the very last of the green coaches up to '67, 121's in grey, the long-gone A, G and K class; B101's (Sulzers), coaches of laminate, Park Royal, Craven and Bredin origins, plus bogie mail coaches and 4 and 6 wheel passenger vans, cattle specials, mixed trains (a la Loughrea) and black or black'n'tan A and C class. No 071's - you'd have to await 1976 for that, although the beauty of a model railway layout is you can re-write history if you want! I always thought a goods-based layout based on somewhere like Newcastle West or Tuam in the mid 60s would be fascinating... mine would be awash with black'n'tan 141s......

Heirflick, you'd be welcome. There were comments on these boards about a day for IRM-boarders at the DCDR when arrangements can be made to view / measure / photograph items of rolling stock including those not normally on display to the public, or in sidings in out of the way places. Obviously there are issues re walking on track on operating days etc, and other H & S issues, but at some stage in the summer I would offer my services to take a guided tour of the place to anyone interested, as I had intimated before. I can arrange transport for small numbers from the greater Dublin and Belfast areas with the co-operation of the DCDR's Operations Officer and a friend of mine, a DCDR member who lives in Dublin. The idea would probabloy be (and I'm just jotting this down off the top'o'me'ead) a pick-up at Central Station and also somewhere in Dublin, with (seating permitting) a pick up in Drogheda / Dundalk / Newry areas, and on to Downpatrick. The cost would be sharing the petrol plus an all-day ticket on the railway, maybe €15-€20 a head? Drop back in evening. As I say, if something broadly along those lines appeals to a sufficient numb er of people, myself and the others mentioned above would be pleased to organise. Post a few thoughts here, if interested, about what you might like to see or do, and we'll see what looks feasible.

Correct, Eiretrains. I remember seeing wagons parked there in v early 1970s - prob dropped off from Mayo for further south, or vice versa.

many thanks, gentlemen!