jhb171achill

Yes, I would think so, Minister. I think I have also seen a kit of some sort of British six-wheel coach which would be more than acceptable as a GSWR type. GNR(I) carriages were in a few cases not unlike some earlier GNR (England) ones.

800 will soon grace MY rails; sending a cheque off for a kit tomorrow!

There would be extremely few exact parallels, David, though many approximations. The NCC had two LMS "Jinty" 0.6.0 tank engines (regauged, obviously), and a number of ex-LMS coaches shipped in after "native" stock was destroyed when Belfast was bombed in WW2. The GSR had a couple of locos brought from GB - I think of LNW origin, but I'd have to look it up. The Tri-ang Hornby clerestorey roofed carriages with curved ends bear a passing resemblance to the style of several (of the few) bogies coaches on the Waterford & Limerick - though to make them look even more authentic, get rid of the clerestorey. Some LMS carriage kits I've seen over the years bear a reasonable resemblance to some of the older GSWR stock, though you could only use the sides as the width is too obviously narrower. BR Mk 2 and 3 carriages look OK if repainted into orange and black, and the former in NIR livery (as an Enterprise set of the 1970s / 1980s) looks the part. In terms of wagons, the same applies. As Mayner says, Irish companies generally supplied their own designs, but these were often not unlike British equivalents, so a decent repaint can make some of them look OK - at least until you get proper ones built!

Absolutely STUNNING! Very realistic weathered paint job too.

In the past, almost every time there is a major livery change there will be a short period during which exceptions of all sorts, often a mix of old and new, can be seen. In the early 1960s it was commonplace (for a short time) to see navy and cream GNR railcars with UTA crests and numerals on them, the old GN crests having been painted out. Around 1967, 70 class railcars carried no badge of ownership for a short time, as this was the turnover from UTA to NIR. One "Jeep" (the preserved No. 4) briefly carried a UTA crest on one side tank, and a new NIR logo on the other. Shortly after 1987, locos could be seen (as descirbed above) with the IR "set of points" logo but not yet the "tippex stripes", which often only came with the first full repaint. Then, as now, economy was the watchword. Now we are going to see a period when the new "tricolour" or "sideways Z" logo slowly replaces the wavy stripes or the "three pin plug" logo. We ALMOST had a newly painted grey 071 with the "three pin plug"!

I'm unaware of that, Hidden-agenda. I can't help doubting it - I would imagine seats took up more space in Pullmans than other stock, so re-use of them might have compromised leg room. That said, we are looking at an era when anything that could be re-used, often was. I will make a few enquiries.

Locos most definitely were cleaner in days of yore. Unless we are talking about the twilight years of steam!

Yes, Anthony, I'll check. The ones left (one, perhaps?) on the scrap line in Naas about 1959 was indeed in a very sorry state cosmetically, and broken windows. I think that by that stage they had been out of use for a good while. One would make a nice addition to a layout in 40s or early 50s. Wonder what one would have looked like in black'n'tan! Probably quite well.....

Yes! And I have heard (from a reliable source) of someone seeing one in the early 60s with a wagon of beet behind it, possibly on the Limerick - Sligo line or North Kerry, but (a) it hardly matters, and (b) I don't recall. But I also know of them hauling horse boxes and standard "H" vans from time to time.

Ah! She's in new IE freight livery!!! :-)

Absolutely superb paint jobs on all of those! Love the weathering on the 201 roof.

I've seen pics of them when derelict at Naas awaiting their appointment with the scrap man. They were in faded CIE green - but with black ends, as with all coaches painted by CIE. The one thing I can be fairly sure of is that their external appearance was not altered during their lives, so if you do see pics of them at the end of their lives, that's also the way they were before. I can't recall if they had "snails" on them or not. I don't know either what classes of passenger accommodation they had - I must ask He Who Knows (i.e. who travelled in them). I suspect they were all firsts but I'll check and post here whatever I am told.

Unusual indeed! Anyone who has Brian Baker's absolutely superb DVD of the West Cork system will see the Bantry train consisting of two AEC cars either side of a Park Royal on one oc casion, and in another shot a four car set has an old 1902-vintage GSWR open third (same as 836 at Downpatrick) plus an early laminate in between; in yet another an AEC set is hauling a Midland Great Western 6 wheeler from the early Pre-Cambrian era... and I've seen a pic of an AEC set somewhere near Killarney with two cattle trucks in tow. Ideal stuff for modellers.

Maybe the Aussies might build a replica! Possibly cheaper......... :-)

Why does the last digit of the numb er vary, and why can't they make the "077" bit larger, or even a different colour, as on railcars? Also, why can't they seek exemption due to inability to mix with other ralway operators in mainland Europe - as some self contained railways have been able to do?

I'd seen those right enough - excellent stuff. The "down at heel" grey van no. 240 is in fact 240N - it's ex GNR, as can be seen with faded "G N" on the side under the CIE paintwork.

WOW! Models look amazing. Likewise, I like it more now it's seen (and well photographed) out'n'about. Interesting that some se a "bluish tint" in it; same was said of newly painted Inchicore locos back in the day. My father, who was very familiar with Inchicore from the 1920s, used that exact description of newly painted locos. The grey used 1918 - the very end - on all locos pre 1950, and most post 1950, was a shade darker, as witnessed on 186 - which according to him, is exactly the right shade of grey. The new 071 livery has a yellow patch in place of a red buffer beam as the onle and only relief from all-over sheep dipped grey - same as steam engines in the past. Just when we all thought the last of the old Inchicore traditions had gone, up comes this! Even the new logo (OK, go on, shoot me) looks fine to me with that livery.

Very much in tune with my observations and records, Leslie - yes, there were even exceptions! I suppose one important thing for modellers is that post 1955 anyway, very heavy weathering over paintwork so badly faded it was hard to make out at all, and sometimes bare wood in between, became increasingly common until the last of the older all-wood wagons disappeared in the very early 70s.

Possibles that I think might be marketable - all RTRs - first steam: GNR "S" class, 461, NCC "Jeep", 400 class? Maybe an NCC 4.4.0? Diesel: 121, UTA MPD railcar, 80 class, 70 class... Carriages: Park Royal, "Tin Van", GNR wooden stock, one or two types, GSWR bogie, MGWR 6-wheeler.... Standard CIE and GNR brake vans... Just a thought...

Richie O'Carroll Kelly? :-)

Most certainly is!!! More on the May Tour!

Wha' ya looking ah! :-)

Prior to 1970, there were very few bauxite wagons in Ireland, though what few there were would have been primarily on the GNR and NCC. CIE started to paint wagons bauxite-like brown in earnest during the 70s. Rules applying to BR were nothing to do with anything that went on here. As Glenderg implies, any similarities were more likely to be co-incidental, though CIE did plan things to some extent along similar lines. BR wagons had other unrelated livery differences too - roofs were not necessarily the same colour as body sides, as they generally were here, and chassis were inevitably black in GB, whereas here almost all companies used the body colour in almost all cases. Ironwork, too, was generall picked out in black on most British livery variations among different companies and BR - though I am by no means expert on what I suspect might have been many exceptions. Here, picking ironwork out in black was extremely rare, and not seen at all on CIE, GNR or UTA wagons. (NIR did, though, on a a small fleet of ballast wagons repainted a very light grey about 1970).

I'd say she will, Heirflick. However, she spent a long period sidelined in the 90s when 461, 171, 4 and 85 were all bumbling about - at any one time, three of the four of them anyway. She is very useful in many ways, especially things like Santas, and crews are familiar with her, but main line speed especially tender first is a problem on things like long distance day trips and the May tour. There is much to be done with other engines, so she might be out for a while. 184, on the other hand, may not see steaming again - at any rate, for a very long time, as she requires little short of a total rebuild. In relation to 171 and 131, the cost of restoration of either - and in the case of 131, fabrication of many many missing parts - is astronomical. Work will proceed as funds and time permit, but as mentioned by others they will both be long term as a result. As a general rule nowadays, given patterns of usage and the logistics of maintenance, repair and restoration, any steam engine can be considered to be in traffic for 6 to 7 years out of every ten. After each ten year period, even if they are currently in traffic, very major 10-year exams are required for insurance and health and safety purposes. This type of exam requires a boiler lift at least; itself producing a bill for the finance officer of the day to mull over. This applies to anything steam that the RPSI has, north or south, main line or Whitehead site; also anything on the DCDR.

And gone are all the old cattle sidings! What would Tatlow and Atock think! :-)