Rolling stock of Dugort Harbour

[Tullygrainey]

I'm enjoying this thread. Using the Slaters 4mm kit for a MR 8 ton 3 plank dropside and working from a photo in Des Coakham's BCDR book (Colourpoint, 2010, pg 207), I had a go at a BCDR 8 ton open

 

 

BCDR 8 ton.HEIC

 

Whoops, not sure what happened to the pic there

[2996 Victor]

2 hours ago, Tullygrainey said:

I'm enjoying this thread. Using the Slaters 4mm kit for a MR 8 ton 3 plank dropside and working from a photo in Des Coakham's BCDR book (Colourpoint, 2010, pg 207), I had a go at a BCDR 8 ton open

 

 

BCDR 8 ton.HEIC 821.18 kB · 3 downloads

 

Whoops, not sure what happened to the pic there

Excellent - that's a fantastic result! How did you create the typical BCDR outside axle guards?

Cheers,

Mark

[Westcorkrailway]

14 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

The carriages will need black chassis and ends, and a new (black) roof, as they resemble WLWR prototypes, which didn’t have Triang clerestorey roofs! Got these two old Triang monsters on fleabay for £3 each…. Delivered to Daughter-in-Wales; had they been posted here, no doubt the customs, post office, VAT and Brexitstan would have resulted in an additional €397.43 in charges.

 

 

 

Applying the transfers to these coaches needs great precision to get into those areas. Is there any update on a new roof? 
 

i might pick up a few more of these as I fecked up the snails and the application of the lining wasn’t particularly good. especially If there as cheap as 3 quid…..

I’m sure something will have to be done about those white lined wheels too!

 

[Tullygrainey]

1 hour ago, 2996 Victor said:

Excellent - that's a fantastic result! How did you create the typical BCDR outside axle guards?

Cheers,

Mark

I used bits from an MJT wagon compensating fret

Alan

 

[2996 Victor]

35 minutes ago, Tullygrainey said:

I used bits from an MJT wagon compensating fret

Thanks, Alan, that's ingenious- I've got a few of those frets so I might have to give that a go!

Cheers,

Mark

[David Holman]

8 hours ago, Galteemore said:

Sorry to hear that David. Do you think some kind of fix is possible, please, either at this stage, or as part of the initial build. I have bought one which is awaiting building

Not sure and other things have taken precedence! The problem is that  the kit underframe seems very close to prototype dimensions, so unlike the usual van and open kits, there is not a lot of wiggle room to move the wheel back to backs out to 33mm. Suspect the cure may be to make new buffer beams, or add a fillet to move the buffer spacing out to 6'3. So much easier to do at the start methinks!

[Westcorkrailway]

Was in the West Cork model village and noted this. It’s quite hard to see due to the reflections on the glass but it was an 1896 CBSCR shunting competition. 

notice how the wagons and soft covers have CBSC initials. 

[jhb171achill]

16 hours ago, Westcorkrailway said:

Was in the West Cork model village and noted this. It’s quite hard to see due to the reflections on the glass but it was an 1896 CBSCR shunting competition. 

notice how the wagons and soft covers have CBSC initials. 

These are obviously plain canvas and quite new. Usually they were dark grey or black, as they were coated with some sort of waterproof stuff, and impregnated with coal smoke!

Edited May 16, 2022 by jhb171achill

[jhb171achill]

With nothing much else to do tonight, a new tube of glue, an old hacksaw I thought I’d lost, an old BR van body and £2.50 eBay “Thomas” coach lying about, I set about one of these old departmental oddities to be seen about the place throughout most of the 20th century. This one is obviously very freelance, but I think fits in. It could be a crew coach for fair days, an old tool van beside a loco shed, or a constituent part of the dreaded lifting train - a common sight in the period of Dugort Harbour.

Took me ten minutes with bits which were otherwise destined for the bin….

In scale it’s 25ft long, as were a very small number of the older six-wheelers. As departmental vehicles many ended up on four wheeled underframes, or old six-wheel ones with the centre pair removed. I just need to put buffers on this and paint it properly.

Naturally, it will also be weathered within an inch of its life…..

 

[jhb171achill]

Decided to “block out” another window on each side when painting….

[the Bandon tank]

Looks good,   I like it.

[jhb171achill]

While the whole idea of the Dugort Harbour layout is to recreate, albeit in a fictitious location, as true-to-life a 1950s-1970 CIE setting as possible, with as much attention as possible to strict accuracy in locos and rolling stock for the relevant period, every layout has to have a "Rule 1".

I was tipped off recently by a friend who pointed this out as being for sale by a friend of his. By coincidence, it was exactly something I had considered doing myself at some stage!

It is the unpowered Dapol BR railbus, with a professionally built motor in it, wired up for DCC, the lot. Working front and rear lights. It appears to be beautifully finished, and is en route by post as we speak.

So it needs a story. When BR were building these short-lived things in the late 50s, CIE got one as a demo. It was tried out here and there, just like the former Sligo railcar also was in 1960/1/2. But it ended up on the Dugort Harbour branch where it was used for a few years on passenger services, freeing up a "C" or a B141 for other duties.  We'll say it arrived in 1959 and ended up in a scrap siding at Mullingar by 1968......

 

The roof will have to be painted black, of course - nothing in black'n'tan EVER had any sort of grey roof; one must maintain standards, after all!

 

Edited July 30, 2022 by jhb171achill

[Galteemore]

Lovely little thing. It looks right - like a one-off from AEC. Won’t look at all out of place. 

[jhb171achill]

37 minutes ago, Galteemore said:

Lovely little thing. It looks right - like a one-off from AEC. Won’t look at all out of place. 

It's an idea I had myself many moons ago, along with the similar idea of one in UTA livery on a 1960s Fintona branch - one of these, a UG and a dozen covered goods vans, and there's the perfect small shunting layout!

[GSR 800]

2 hours ago, Galteemore said:

Lovely little thing. It looks right - like a one-off from AEC. Won’t look at all out of place. 

Park Royal iirc, so theres a bit of room to say 'ah sure ye are buying all these coaches, do ye want this railbus while ye'r at it?'

I could see her being used as an inspection car or something in her last years..

[jhb171achill]

13 minutes ago, GSR 800 said:

Park Royal iirc, so theres a bit of room to say 'ah sure ye are buying all these coaches, do ye want this railbus while ye'r at it?'

I could see her being used as an inspection car or something in her last years..

Exactly!

[jhb171achill]

A few items I’ve had for years, and which cost me a possible total of £15 all together, now in the process of conversion. I’ll comment on each individually.

First, a rake of four coaches in 1950s green. The type of model will be well familiar to all here. I need to get some "wooden" stock for 1950s use.

First, these are very definitely in the "two-foot-rule" category. The ones nearest and furtherst away from the camera are those old GWR brake thirds. These, provided a FLAT rather than clerestorey roof is fitted, are the closest resembling anything Irish - there were two Waterford, Limerick & Western brake thirds (Nos. 937 & 938) which were very like these indeed - except that they had one less compartment. The one nearest is in the pre-1955 dark green, deliberately matt to look worn. The furthest away one plus the two in the middle are in the 1955-62 lighter green, same as applied to A, C, G601 (not G611) and B101 class diesels. They need to be lined, and three of the coaches, having had their clerestorey roofs removed will need to have flat-curve roofs made. (That's in hand).

Lining, of course, will be the double pale green lines, one above and one below the windows, on the leading coach, as per the older livery, with "snails" added. The other three, being the lighter green, will have just the single thin line, waist level.

I am trying to put together a generic wooden rake to go with my six-wheelers when they arrive. The six-wheelers will work on the branch - these things above will have to do, along with a green K15 and a green Park Royal, for the main line train until or unless a credible GSWR bogie model is made by anyone.

The nearest coach will be WLWR 937. Roof, snails and new wheels needed - the existing ones are coarse scale and bump along the sleepers.

 

Next, this coach may keep its clerestorey roof, albeit with the glazing in this part painted or sheeted over. There were a few GSWR clerestorey types kicking about even into the early 1960s, but this design of vehicle which is Midland Railway (England) in origin, is not REMOTELY like any GSWR clerestorey type, but it does look the part; a temporary solution to a dearth of wooden bogie coaches. being a 1st / 3rd composite, it's the sort of thing that could have been found on a mixed train on a branch with just the one coach - 1950s branch lines which had dispensed with six wheelers often had a vehicle like this with a six-wheel full brake or six-wheel brake 3rd.

If this thing didn't have these curved-in ends, which in Ireland were only to be found on a handful of WLWR stock and nothing else whatsoever, it would look a good bit more GSWR-ish. The above WLWR-esque vehicle in the dark green was actually one of the very, very few prototypes which did.

 

A short break from carriages; picked this little low-sided wagon ages ago. Gawwd knows where I got it, but its a GWR wagon from Brexitland. However, repainted, but with the "G" of "G  W" deliberately showing, it can be an GSR wagon with CIE's paint wearing off. A distressed looking "snail" and CIE number, and weathering, will make it look about right.

 

Another of what will temporarily run on the Dugort Harbour local train, as a GSWR relic. Lining and snails to follow. It would look more realistically GSWR with a flat roof, but I think I'll leave that one. Can't do much about these pesky curved ends though without a lot of major surgery which really isn't worth it.

 

This came with the others. With curved ends, it has to be assumed to be a WLWR vehicle, but that compant never had any vehicle at all close to ths design; however, beggars can't be choosers. It'll do for a while. Needs new wheels too.

 

The darker green one. Lining above and below windows on this. Plus, of course, a roof.

 

The lighter green one the same; this will be WLWR No. 938, the above one 937. They were built (as far as I recall) 1896 or so, and withdrawn in 1954 and 1955.

 

 

Edited September 12, 2022 by jhb171achill

[popeye]

They all look great and will look the part. 

[Westcorkrailway]

8 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

A few items I’ve had for years, and which cost me a possible total of £15 all together, now in the process of conversion. I’ll comment on each individually.

First, a rake of four coaches in 1950s green. The type of model will be well familiar to all here. I need to get some "wooden" stock for 1950s use.

First, these are very definitely in the "two-foot-rule" category. The ones nearest and furtherst away from the camera are those old GWR brake thirds. These, provided a FLAT rather than clerestorey roof is fitted, are the closest resembling anything Irish - there were two Waterford, Limerick & Western brake thirds (Nos. 937 & 938) which were very like these indeed - except that they had one less compartment. The one nearest is in the pre-1955 dark green, deliberately matt to look worn. The furthest away one plus the two in the middle are in the 1955-62 lighter green, same as applied to A, C, G601 (not G611) and B101 class diesels. They need to be lined, and three of the coaches, having had their clerestorey roofs removed will need to have flat-curve roofs made. (That's in hand).

Lining, of course, will be the double pale green lines, one above and one below the windows, on the leading coach, as per the older livery, with "snails" added. The other three, being the lighter green, will have just the single thin line, waist level.

I am trying to put together a generic wooden rake to go with my six-wheelers when they arrive. The six-wheelers will work on the branch - these things above will have to do, along with a green K15 and a green Park Royal, for the main line train until or unless a credible GSWR bogie model is made by anyone.

The nearest coach will be WLWR 937. Roof, snails and new wheels needed - the existing ones are coarse scale and bump along the sleepers.

 

Next, this coach may keep its clerestorey roof, albeit with the glazing in this part painted or sheeted over. There were a few GSWR clerestorey types kicking about even into the early 1960s, but this design of vehicle which is Midland Railway (England) in origin, is not REMOTELY like any GSWR clerestorey type, but it does look the part; a temporary solution to a dearth of wooden bogie coaches. being a 1st / 3rd composite, it's the sort of thing that could have been found on a mixed train on a branch with just the one coach - 1950s branch lines which had dispensed with six wheelers often had a vehicle like this with a six-wheel full brake or six-wheel brake 3rd.

If this thing didn't have these curved-in ends, which in Ireland were only to be found on a handful of WLWR stock and nothing else whatsoever, it would look a good bit more GSWR-ish. The above WLWR-esque vehicle in the dark green was actually one of the very, very few prototypes which did.

 

A short break from carriages; picked this little low-sided wagon ages ago. Gawwd knows where I got it, but its a GWR wagon from Brexitland. However, repainted, but with the "G" of "G  W" deliberately showing, it can be an GSR wagon with CIE's paint wearing off. A distressed looking "snail" and CIE number, and weathering, will make it look about right.

 

Another of what will temporarily run on the Dugort Harbour local train, as a GSWR relic. Lining and snails to follow. It would look more realistically GSWR with a flat roof, but I think I'll leave that one. Can't do much about these pesky curved ends though without a lot of major surgery which really isn't worth it.

 

This came with the others. With curved ends, it has to be assumed to be a WLWR vehicle, but that compant never had any vehicle at all close to ths design; however, beggars can't be choosers. It'll do for a while. Needs new wheels too.

 

The darker green one. Lining above and below windows on this. Plus, of course, a roof.

 

The lighter green one the same; this will be WLWR No. 938, the above one 937. They were built (as far as I recall) 1896 or so, and withdrawn in 1954 and 1955.

 

 

I recodnise a few of those coaches! All they need is decent roof

[jhb171achill]

The “tin vans” of Dugort Harbour, two each of JM Design and Silverfox.

These cover the 1963-78 period between them (the six-wheeler ftom 1965, of course).

I will soon take delivery of a green one and a silver one, having taken care to specify a correct black roof on the former, and all-silver on the latter.

Both will be weathered before entering service.

[Westcorkrailway]

2 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

The “tin vans” of Dugort Harbour, two each of JM Design and Silverfox.

These cover the 1963-78 period between them (the six-wheeler ftom 1965, of course).

I will soon take delivery of a green one and a silver one, having taken care to specify a correct black roof on the former, and all-silver on the latter.

Both will be weathered before entering service.

Great news. I’ll look on in interest 

 

I think IFM make some of these vans now, I’ve been meaning to see if he would make a sample in silver 

[Old Blarney]

On 30/7/2022 at 9:48 PM, jhb171achill said:

While the whole idea of the Dugort Harbour layout is to recreate, albeit in a fictitious location, as true-to-life a 1950s-1970 CIE setting as possible, with as much attention as possible to strict accuracy in locos and rolling stock for the relevant period, every layout has to have a "Rule 1".

I was tipped off recently by a friend who pointed this out as being for sale by a friend of his. By coincidence, it was exactly something I had considered doing myself at some stage!

It is the unpowered Dapol BR railbus, with a professionally built motor in it, wired up for DCC, the lot. Working front and rear lights. It appears to be beautifully finished, and is en route by post as we speak.

So it needs a story. When BR were building these short-lived things in the late 50s, CIE got one as a demo. It was tried out here and there, just like the former Sligo railcar also was in 1960/1/2. But it ended up on the Dugort Harbour branch where it was used for a few years on passenger services, freeing up a "C" or a B141 for other duties.  We'll say it arrived in 1959 and ended up in a scrap siding at Mullingar by 1968......

 

The roof will have to be painted black, of course - nothing in black'n'tan EVER had any sort of grey roof; one must maintain standards, after all!

 

Ah well, young Beaumont.  Now there is a tale to tell, is there not!

  Look at photographs of CIÉ, Class U, single deck buses. The Country bus and Dublin City ones.  U 51 to 88. built at Spa Road, Works in 1954. The front on this batch of bused is as near as "Identical" to the front of your Railcar. I know and loathe the expression as near as identical. Something is or is not identical. 

Your story could be along these lines. CIÉ discovered they were in possession of an additional front panels for a bus, but they had no other materials available for its completion.  Thus, the Railway Works, at Inchicore were approached and asked if they may have a use for the surplus bus front. Remembering the Bus side of CIÉ had delivered a former Dublin United Tramways "A Class" bus to the Railway.  This was converted into a Rail-bus. Not very successful.  So, there is precedent!! 

I'm sure someone will be able to add a photograph of the city, or country, U Class Bus for your perusal.

[jhb171achill]

5 minutes ago, Old Blarney said:

Ah well, young Beaumont.  Now there is a tale to tell, is there not!

  Look at photographs of CIÉ, Class U, single deck buses. The Country bus and Dublin City ones.  U 51 to 88. built at Spa Road, Works in 1954. The front on this batch of bused is as near as "Identical" to the front of your Railcar. I know and loathe the expression as near as identical. Something is or is not identical. 

Your story could be along these lines. CIÉ discovered they were in possession of an additional front panels for a bus, but they had no other materials available for its completion.  Thus, the Railway Works, at Inchicore were approached and asked if they may have a use for the surplus bus front. Remembering the Bus side of CIÉ had delivered a former Dublin United Tramways "A Class" bus to the Railway.  This was converted into a Rail-bus. Not very successful.  So, there is precedent!! 

I'm sure someone will be able to add a photograph of the city, or country, U Class Bus for your perusal.

Indeed, OB, I've seen that vehicle (in picture form!) and you're quite right! Good thinking...........

Edited October 27, 2022 by jhb171achill

[Old Blarney]

Not the best image of a U Class. 

 

Edited October 27, 2022 by Old Blarney

[jhb171achill]

A man in a red suit came down my chimney (I don’t actually have a chimney) at some stage during the night of 24th / 25th. He left these behind him. It said “Silverfox” on the boxes they were in, though I know it was Santa.

I’ll post the pics first, then comment.

Top class weathering by my expert friend in Newry, known to all here.

 

[Galteemore]

Looks well JB. 

[jhb171achill]

Now, comments.

The first box I opened was the un-numbered 1951 CIE coach, seen in the last picture. It actually looks better in real life than the pic on SF's website. Very impressed, and runs nicely.

The GNR one is structurally perfectly satisfactory, and again to me looks better in the flesh. Having specifically instructed Silverfox to paint the roof black - they have a habit of producing CIE stuff with light grey roofs - that was done. But the green.......

The GNR was taken over at the end of 1958. Repaints into CIE or UTA livery started in 1959. CIE stopped painting things dark green in 1954/5. Not one solitary GN vehicle was ever turned out in dark green, yet here it is; and while the waistline is in the correct pale green (not clear in artificial light above), the "snail" is WHITE.

I know I bang on about this, but why, oh why, oh why, cannot a manufacturer get such tiny details as a correct colour - correct! This coach now looks to be a UTA repaint, not a CIE one; in fact, I may well obscure the "snail", put UTA roundels on it, and concoct some tale that it's turned up at Dugort Harbour on a pigeon special from Lisburn. Complete repaint another option. Silverfox folks - if you're reading this, see the Park Royal adjacent to the ex-GNR K15; it's in the correct green. Not one thing the GNR ever possessed ever got this dark shade - plus, can we put pale green snails on things - please? No coach EVER had a white flying snail. Nor did ex-GNR carriages have the prefix "C" to the numbers; it would have been 181N - the "C" was only on railcars.

This is really frustrating. I do not want to criticise a manufacturer of Irish models, especially (a) we need you all, (b) the SF range covers quite a few prototypes that there is no other commercial model of, and in many cases may never be in my lifetime, (c) as a fan of the BR "Blue" era too, i see that SF do a very impressive range of British Rail railcars which I'm unaware of anyone esle doing. But time and time again, Silverfox Irish liveries are tragically, and completely needlessly, wrong.

I might add that on two occasions I have supplied details of corrections on various matters of that nature directly to SF, but had no answer. So I don't know what the problem is with getting such things right. There's no excuse for it.

Despite all of that, I remain a very satisfied customer; while €87 is plenty to pay for a coach in the wrong livery, at least it can be repainted. Awkward, though, with the glazing on a K15, but necessary.

The tin vans; again, very happy with them, though one pair of wheels on the "dirty silver" one keeps falling out - a little attention will secure it, though. But the green one - just no. None of them ever carried that livery. Silver, then LIGHT green, then black'n'tan.

Will I be back for more SF stuff? Quite possibly - but I will stick to black'n'tan ones; I'm tempted by another of the above CIE 1951 coach. Until they get their CIE green livery right, it can't be recommended.

Edited January 2, 2023 by jhb171achill

[David Holman]

Nice models JB, while we are all grateful for that hair shirt you wear!

 Such knowledge is so valuable and therefore essential it is used properly.