New TT scale model railways from Peco

[Colin R]

Hi Guys for those of you who find OO a bit big take a look at the launch of the 1 to 120 scale TT scale from Peco and Rails of Sheffield

https://railsofsheffield.com/blogs/news/heljan-tt-gauge-class31

If this takes off then I wonder how long it will be before we start to see some TT scale irish models other than those on the exhibtion circuit?

 

Colin

[DJ Dangerous]

Heljan also announcing TT locos.

[Robert Shrives]

The development is left of field but not a boundary maker or a 6!  But it does depend where you stand. To introduce a UK finescale model system from the get go is brave and perhaps shows the shrink ray machine has been perfected. Clearly this exciting development has been under wraps for awhile.

The fun thing is that in UK a 3mm 1:100 modellers scale has been in the niche corner- historically using 12mm with varying standards for track and an uber niche gang using 14.2.  The parallels can be drawn win 16.5 and 21mm  Irish modelling.

Historically 1:120 scale on 12mm track is pretty near scale  but like the  HO/OO of old UK small loading gauge saw the track kept and scale increased to 1:100 (approx)  and Triang led the way but did not displace or compliment OO enough and the mainstream trade in UK fell away.  1:120 kept faith with two odd bedfellows - the US and USSR!  With reasonable trade support .  The European models for metre gauge models on 12mm track shine with central motor and PCBs for DCC and lighting on 12mm The steam locos are also well built but do not easily help the idea of fitting a new body represent to another company or era and is very popular across Europe with many fine evocations of the ideal "Swiss chocolate box village with a railway."  

Peco had the track sorted with HOm 12mm track with decent sleepers and points with code 75 rail. 

In 1:120 Peco have noted the fact that the track has UK spacing sleepers but at a 1:120 is now underszed for exsisting UK  12mm track users. HOm while not right looks better than the new offering.  

Seemingly a good move but not a complete model system until the news today of Heljan shrink raying a BR class 31 and suggestion of shunters in steam and diesel outline suddenly makes the 1:120 launch much more successful, however  the timescales brings in the retail dread of delay.. track June this year , loco mid next and no stock seen at anything other than early CAD.  

As a lover of 12mm TT Triang  I can see the track development as really good and there is suggest a 12mm point that is a current day replacement of the triang point which opens up a very brightly lit upland!  I have pre ordered a blue 31 and hopefully make up some sort of layout and see what comes.    

I too look forward to new layouts and a flip given to the hobby. 

Robert 

      

[Galteemore]

And a most useful development for Irish modellers seeking to do 4 mm scale 3’ gauge …..will be loads of useful bits and pieces now….as a former 3mm scale modeller I thoroughly recommend 3mm Society membership  btw….

Edited June 14, 2022 by Galteemore

[murphaph]

I love TT (if Irish stuff hadn't existed I would have contemplated a TT layout as an alternative) but wouldn't we just end up with another incorrect gauge for 5'3" with this system? If Irish models ever appear RTR in a scale/gauge other than 00 I would hope it would include a true scale gauge of the prototype. But in reality I think 00 with allowance for 21mm wherever practically possible is the limit of what's commercially viable for RTR in the Irish market, given the small size.

[connollystn]

This is certainly an interesting development, however, I can't see anything being produced in TT scale for the Irish market as I don't think that the demand is there. TT scale is something that I seriously considered but opted for HO scale in the end, however, the IRM A class is so good that I'm back into OO. I'm not overly fussed about the fact that the track for Irish stock isn't the correct scale width - there's the quality and character that exudes from the A class and, other IRM models, which more than compensates for the fact that it operates on incorrectly scale width track. In TT scale the width of the track for models of Irish prototypes would not be as big an issue as 00 models - which operate on the narrower HO scale width standard gauge track. For some people space might be the deciding factor as to which scale they model, for me, it's detail so I'd be reluctant to scale down. In the end, when it comes to railway modelling, it's about compromise.

[Sean]

An observation I have made as of late suggests to me that the gauge difference isn't all that noticeable on modern track in real life between Ireland and the UK.

I think sleeper density is much more important in the final look of the trackage and if the gauge looks correct or not.

On the contrary to this, if I see videos from the us where the rails are packed full of sleepers in a similar density to that of set track I actually do think the track looks a lot more narrow gauge. Or UK heritage lines which still seem to have a lot of wooden sleepers. They also have this narrowing effect a lot more than a modern UK line with concrete sleepers. I feel like the track looks super wide in the barrack street videos and I think that's simply because the line is chock full of a high sleeper density again which seems to somewhat emphasise the gauge more.

[Colin R]

To throw a huge spanner in the works, would 0.75mm over gauge be to much of a problem for anyone considering TT Irish 5ft 3inch?

 

Colin Rainsbury

 

[David Holman]

What Sean says about sleeper density is certainly interesting, because the big issue with Peco Code 100 is just that - it has never been right, even for 'standard'  gauge. The new Code 75 looks better, even portraying 5'3, because rail size and sleeper spacing are correct for 00 track on these islands.

 Let's hope other manufacturers pick up on what Peco have done.

 In some ways, it is perhaps surprising that we don't see 3mm Irish models on 16.5 track, but on the other hand, considering the lack of anything rtr in that scale it makes more sense to do as per the wonderful Ballyconnell Road and do the right gauge in the first place.

 Another way of doing Irish broad and narrow is to do American 0 Gauge, which is 1:48. 32mm track is pretty close, while 18mm, EM is spot on for 3' of course and there are plenty of scenic items like figures and road vehicles available. Unfortunately, wheels are a big problem because a 36mm wheel would have fewer spokes in 7mm scale (5'2) than 1:48, where it would be about 6'.

 Anyway, enough of that - makes my brain hurt just thinking about it!

[Sean]

@David Holman I think this clip illustrates it well. in the parts where the guy looks down  the trackwork, the first few glances i was like hey that looks a lot like settrack. and from memory this is the tightest sleeper density i have seen on any kind of railway.

 

 

Us railroading videos have been fascinating me lately.the sheer size of the locos and consists are out of this world. literally.

[Mayner]

Peco and Heljan settling on 1:120 rather than the established 1:100 for "British TT" is an interesting one.

Like the original Code 100 Streamline (HO Scale) track system of the 60s Peco are also looking at the American and Continental 1:120 Scale TT market.

While a nice intermediate size/scale between OO and N, its difficult to see the advent of the new track system and British outline TT 1:120 models having an affect on the Irish railway modelling scene.

I cannot see IRM or Murphy Models introducing a range of rtr 1:100 or 1:120 scale Irish locos and stock, let alone a bespoke 5'3" gauge track system.

Irish TT is very much a scratch/kitbuilders scale, I know of one MRSI member Brian McCann who modelled the Donegal during the 1990s in 1:100 on 9mm or N Gauge track, and of the Ballyconnell Road 5'3" gauge layout, Worsley Works supply Irish scratchbuilders parts in TT scale. 

While Irish 5'3" and 3' gauge is feasible in TT (1:100 scale) on OO and OO9/N gauge track and a way to get something running reasonably quickly, the track is a different scale to the model and as no suitable rtr stock is available you may as well follow the example of the Ballyconnell Road group and hand lay the track to the correct gauge as you already have to build the loco and rolling stock chassis. 

The existing Peco HOm track system is ideal for Irish 3' gauge in 4mm and in my opinion a more reliable track system than the Tillig H0m system. (I had to replace the Tilling points with Peco on my Irish 3' gauge layout).