Westport Quay and the Project 42 Inglenook

[Northroader]

Sean, that van was put up there for Kate Winslet to have her hair done between shoots, then Di Caprio says if she’s having that, I want me own tin van on the foreward hatch. They’re a terrible lot when they get out of Hollywood.

Edited July 22, 2022 by Northroader

[Mike 84C]

Just been studying the mill photos, the one which shows the wagons by those "hoods" if you look closely there appears to be the bottom of a chute from the mill which has a small horizontal platform.  I have used something similar where the bags come down the chute and drop onto the little platform at about  the right height for a man to lean back, pick the sack up and carry it on his back.

All mills have/had a weighbridge facility, never been to one that would accept a vendors weight ticket! Often the cause of disputes between buyer and seller! Milling a trade  beset with artful dodgers!

[TimO]

Sean, this is a fascinating thread.

I did a little research on the SS Kelpie. It was built in 1906 in Troon (Scotland). It was purchased by J Bannatyne & Son of Limerick in 1916 and renamed the SS Keeper so your photo is definitely before this date. Very sadly she was sunk the following year by a German submarine with the loss of 12 lives. Your photo is thought to date from 1910 and certainly before 1914. I expect she was carrying grain from Belfast or Liverpool to Westport in your photo. The area around Westport was not known as an extensive grain growing area. As mentioned by @Mike 84C it looks like the ship is being unloaded with a mechanical enclosed bucket elevator, if you look closely you can see the top (head) pulley housing and the two legs. There is a similar, shorter one visible on the back of the building. This would have been used for unloading grain from railway wagons coming from an inland grain facility. The wagons behind the silo are being loaded from chutes.

Whilst sometimes being referred to as a mill I believe this very modern and advanced elevator building was purely for grain trans- shipment. I imagine there was a facility to transfer grain to the large flat stores if they were also owned by Pollexfens. The grain wagons would have been closed up once filled, ready for collection by the local goods engine. 
 

The open goods wagons in the other photo seem to be filled with sacks of flour. I think these most likely came from a flour mill such as Pollexfens well respected flour mill in Ballisodare. Wagons from the grain elevator would not have been left open while being moved to the station! As you probably know the Ballisodare mill had extensive sidings to take in grain and almost certainly some of this came from the Westport elevator. There are photos of Ballisodare sidings somewhere on this forum.

I hope this gives you a better idea of the date of the elevator photo and some information on the potential rail traffic. It looks like the open van next to the ones with the flour sacks is full of cattle. I wonder were they coming or going? 

[TimO]

A little more consideration of your postings and some imagination.

In Father Malone’s video at about 31 seconds in you can see the ship unloading bucket elevator in its out of use position, clear of the ship and up against the building. It is the device that has the profile of a safety pin, you can also see the arms that move it out over the ship. The loaded wagons behind the elevator building would have been moved by an electric capstan or a horse and then the next empty one pulled into position. I think it is most likely they used horses here. 
 

I agree with @Mayner that the industrial building behind with the large chimney was probably a mill and either a power house or boiler house, remember this was before the ESB was formed in 1926. Most likely this was coal fired but by the 1970’s it would definitely be oil. It is also believable that the elevator was still discharging 500 Tonnes coastal ships, they still brought grain to Dublin port at this time period. By then the shunting horse would have been replaced with a tractor fitted with a buffer beam each end.

Going back to photo of the semi- covered wagons in the station. Grain, wheat, barley, oats and maize would have been carried in brown jute sacks whereas flour would have been in white cotton bags. Other commodities, perhaps cement, may also have been in white coloured bags. This is one reason I don’t believe these are sacks of grain. Interestingly the open wagon next to the one with cattle seems to have a number of wooden crates, could these be machinery for the mill or other industry?

I hope this gives you more ideas for potential traffic in and out of your planned layout. I am also thinking, why not bring in rail ballast by coastal ship and load into ballast hopper wagons on the quayside?

Thanks for posting these very interesting photos.

 

[Sean]

Thanks Tim, in theory im going to need 8 types of rolling stock,  was thinking of laden and unladen ballast  to make up 2 of these types. in reality it is seeming i could have far more than 8 different types of rolling stock and the plan would still be believeable.

 

Funnily enough I have just stumbled upon some more information that suggests it was actually a flour mill all along! however in the 1970's in its last year of use it was used by the government to store grain.

It was originally built by RH Hall from plans by architech James Friel who also designed the RH hall elevators and it later became pollexfens.

https://www.buildingsofireland.ie/buildings-search/building/31308726/roman-island-westport-quay-mayo

this man explains it better than I for sure.

Pollexfens headed paper showing a steam train.

Telephone number - 3.

 

[Sean]

somthing of major interest i have just spotted.

the chutes and elevator at the side have been discussed a lot here. but actually, looking at later photos this section has been convered in by a canopy.

The reason this is interesting me, I have been looking for somthing suitable for this building however the walthers kit might actually be too big for the tiny little space i have allocated. This one however fits with room to spare.

https://scalescenes.com/product/t037-low-relief-grain-silo/

its not exactly what i am looking for but it may just work for the available space nicely. the additional red brick parts could suggest a bigger facility being located here with only the facade of the silo modellable in the space......

IT does have a canopy over the elevator/chutes just like is seen in the above photo.

 

https://www.28dayslater.co.uk/threads/kidlington-water-eaton-grain-silo-oxfordshire-january-2013.77110/ The protoype itself is not too dissimilar. 7 stories

 

I wonder would it be hard to stick a few windows into the scalescenes kit and change the red brick area for solid concrete. then i couldnt say no.

Edited July 24, 2022 by Sean

[Sean]

135 rolls onto the dock for the first time. 

 

Marina water attempt one. Bit browner than I'd liked but the brown kinda suits it now.

 

 

[Galteemore]

Looking good and atmosphere is building. Keep it coming please ! 

[jhb171achill]

This entire thing is a brilliant concept from start to finish. I have going held that Westport Quay, either in its actual form or as a "tweaked" version, for example with a passenger service o loco shed added, makes probably the most perfect prototype for a small terminus layout; in joint first place with Fintona and Courtmacsherry.

Most of the pics above are out of "Rails to Achill"; while this book was about the Achill branch specifically, I felt at the time that inclusion of the Quay line was of connected interest, hence a chapter on that line alone.  

The one taken from the sea, looking in at a boat with wagons outside the mill behind not is a picture I have never seen before, hence my earlier comment that I had yet to see any pics of the mill area. So that one is of considerable interest to me.

The wagons seen are standard MGWR soft-tops, a kit for which is available. Almost all of the traffic down the quay line would have been covered vans of this or other sorts. On many shunting-type or terminus layouts, realism would require clearly laden wagons going one way, empty the other. For this reason, a layout where the bulk (or all) of the traffic is covered vans, you dunno whether there's anything in them or not, so they are ideal! Open wagons, for example a beet location, won't look real if they have permanent loads in them, or are permanently empty! Another reason why any sort of mill is deal as a prototype.

To recap on then history of the line, the main line into Westport opened in 1866, with the Quay extension following in 1874. It was just under 2 miles long. In 1880 a seasonal passenger service was provided as a result of encouragement by the Harbour Commissioners; not so much to access shipping, as such connections might usually have ben assumed to be - but for "bathers". A few years later there was a year-round service. This did not last, as by 1889 it was seasonal again. In November 1901 passenger services were abandoned for good. It is believed that the branch train was a single six-wheel brake third. In 1897, then timetable for which has survived, there were two return passenger trains per day plus one mixed from Westport to the Quay, and in the uphill direction (most of this at 1:65) one passenger, one mixed and one goods-only; this latter, plus the downhill mixed, were subject to a footnote in operational instructions to the effect that if goods (mill) traffic warranted it, more then one run could be made. Journey time was generally 5-10 minutes, though the 3pm downhill mixed was allowed 15 minutes due too the necessity to pin down wagon brakes.

After 1901, two scheduled goods trains per day operated, though it is almost certain that when quiet, both did not operate, while at busy times extra runs were made. In 1931 the branch lost its full signalling and the small cabin, details of which have not survived, but likely to be like the one at Loughrea, was removed.

In 1943, even the scheduled goods trains stopped and afterwards goods was run on then basis of when required. By the late 1960s, little went down the branch except a tank wagon of diesel to the place where they kept and refuelled the local CIE bus. Occasional traffic, however, was to be seen into the 1970s. By this stage the old cattle bank was derelict, and the station building locked up for many years.

The actual quay sidings beyond the station limit were derelict by 1964, and partly removed by 1969/70.Around 1978, other pieces of track at the Quay were being dismantled and the rest of the line was lifted in the early 1980s.

The photos reproduced above, out of the "Rails to Achill" book, were taken by Barry Carse in 1975, the last year that much use appears to have been made of the line. Little traversed it after that, and certainly nothing on a regular basis. 

There were TWO mills down there - Halls & Polloxfens. MGWR working instructions stipulated that locomotives were not allowed along the quay to Hall's Mill - horses had to be used there. The larger one at least was built about 1910 hence its absence in one of the photos above.

My own Dugort Harbour - if you look at it - is largely inspired by this place. In its planning stage, the idea was that it would be an exact replica, albeit with a passenger service still in the 1960s. However, lack of MGWR locos, rolling stock or anything else at that time pushed me south, as kits of GSWR 6-wheelers were (and are) available. I am glad to say that some MGWR stuff is now available, thanks to SSM and JM Design; I await IRM's all-singing, all-dancing MGWR six-wheelers some day!

I'm looking forward to seeing the "Inglenook" develop!

Edited July 27, 2022 by jhb171achill

[Sean]

[Sean]

This module is really beginning to look like something now

Weigh house 

The scalescenes stone goods shed. Turned out significantly better than my initial scalescenes attempts on the other layout as I took the time to source more appropriate card this time. Working door.

 

Bought the scalescenes silo. Decided as silos are quite basic shaped structures in general im Using it as a template to try my hand at scratch building my own pollexfens silo!

Staff entrance 

Employee parking

water now looking way better after a few days. Had pretty much no working vans in my collection of rolling stock at the moment so just stuck these few dapol kits together today also. Although not prototypical to Ireland they will fill a stop gap just fine till I find somthing better. Might even paint them up as specialised CIE fish vans for a nearby food processing plant as it would make another unique piece of rolling stock for inglenook purposes.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 27, 2022 by Sean

[jhb171achill]

There were actually two rail-served premises at Westport Quay at one time - so you’ve an excuse for two separate types of traffic alongside the odd wagon of beet being loaded in December, and fish too.

[Sean]

Another interesting angle is that the order of wagons can be completley random on an incoming train, so in order to correctly deliver the correct wagon to the correct part of the siding the dock traffic will have to be taken out and reshunted at the station before it can be finally delivered down to the dock.

 

Will reply properly to your longer post tomorrow, as ive been mostly posting pictures from the phone it doesnt really lend well to writing replies to longer posts.

[Sean]

B125 on her first run to the quay!

[Galteemore]

Some excellent views just uploaded to IRRS Flickr site https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/52251649176/in/photostream

 

[jhb171achill]

Excellent stuff all round. The only thing I might suggest is to make the goods platform have a stone front facing to it, rather than being on stilts on the Scalescene model. Looking forward to seeing the whole thing developing!

 

[Sean]

That's actually a great call JB as those stilts never did look quite correct.

 

Have had other commitments since posting up b125 so "nothing has happened on the layout lately"

 

I did kindly obtain some rolling stock from a generous donator on here that will actually see use on the layout. Those are yet to be revealed along with a few more vans but nothing special really.

 

Did a small bit with the corner module before the heatwave hit but I haven't been in the train room for a little while now.

 

[Sean]

One great thing about the modular nature of this layout; as the bug bites back and work has commenced on the third and final module, this can sit proudly in my living room in diorama mode looking all nice

 

more to come soon

Edited February 1, 2023 by Sean

[DJ Dangerous]

Lovely shot!

[Sean]

had planned to make a bigger update but with the ongoing postal debacle I have been working on other aspects of the train room.

a new fourth module has been born! and a little spontaneous modelling to boot.

 

Initially just a lump of wood  to connect to other layouts, the usual old problem has reared its head of millimeter differences in the different baseboards  causing uneven areas in the trackbed that would eventually lead to derailments all round if the trackwork was simply pinned down to the uneven surfaces  (Which i have learned the hard way in the past!)

 

So a different approach has been attempted  here and i think it is going to work out quite decently once the glue has dried. I have ballasted the track as if it were a real trackbed with a larger pile than usual and this has created the slight little gradient that the track is following and will take up any slack that would have otherwise been present on this board and the trains will be rolling over solid even trackage. I will probabaly end up doing some scenery on this additonal board now after i have taken the time to do this ballasting experiment but time will tell on that front. its not really a module as such as a means to bridge two locations together

 

the little "street" with the mini running down it happened by accident however it is now staying as i think it would look quite well once the bridge has some railings and i put down tarmac underlays etc. after this bridge is where I will be connecting into the next baseboard, however this one does not actually exist yet as the layout in question is still only a figment of my imagination.

 

but what about the third module i hear you ask?  back to that soon

.

threw together a little fiddle yard then to make sure  the new trackwork actually does all work properly, so far it seems solid but i havent ran a powered train over it yet.

This fiddle yard will be replaced with another layout as soon as i commission the base board. also scored this table for free today which will eventually have an oval of track set up on it which will also be connected into both micro layouts. (all sounds very convoluted but im getting there now)

and finally some new kids on the block, I figured that these PFA's will suit me fine as a 20 footer flat stand-in until IRM decide to produce one, Usually high level of IRM quality with these babies too however and a very impressive weight for such a bare chassis! definitely a huge upgrade from the home cut up plastic hornby chassis of yesteryear and i think they look quite smart behind a 121 with these CIE containers onboard.

 

Sean

 

 

Edited February 10, 2023 by Sean

[Sean]

So rather predictably the next day that ballasting job turned out to be an absolute shit show 

although at this stage it didnt really matter as i had discovered the table was wide enough to take an oval of track! and along with that there is now space for an old forgotten layout to come out once again

This will be the "train set" area of the room, for when i just want to chill and watch trains.

 

more time had to be spent working out how to make a reliable link between boards, So now it IS merely just a bit of wood to bridge the 2 layouts and whilst it doesnt look pretty trains are running over it reliably, so it works and it is what it is until im motivated to build and model something a little prettier.

with this I had been left with an open space behind the new branchline and after some consideration i thought it would be a good place to erect another board and start on a little PWD siding area.

I had wanted a run around here, but at this stage i was rapidly running out of usable space, and track! this is why the spoil siding is curved at the end. 192 has been sent from dublin for PWD duties to be stationed here.

Finally the rail spur to the new layout was started, nothing on this  new board yet except for the trackwork, and since its a seperate project I will give it its own thread in due course

 

Now with the boring stuff outta the way,  future updates can focus on all that has gone on at westport quay and surrounding areas in recent times.

 

[Sean]

One thing immediately became clear to me upon returning to the train room was that  I was never totally happy with the station plan and that if i wanted to motivate myself to finish the layout then certain parameters would have to change.

the track plan had always been a bit of a compromise to use up old track and i knew well from the outset that it would never really be able to run modern rolling stock without sucking all of the fun out of things, hence setting the layout in an earlier time period. Not a problem except  my collection of modern  rolling stock grows whilst my collection of older trains slowly dwindles and this layout takes up a rather large portion of my room. so i would prefer compatibility with as much stock as possible.

and so the P42 inglenook was born!

whilst not based on any prototypical place the intention is to create a small rail yard based in the IR era which conforms to the rules of the inglenook shunting game. 

the bottom road is a through road to the running table putting all of the sidings on a back shunt. and off to the left the road heads down to the quay(which is still westport quay btw), whilst slightly awkward looking, this ensures that a pilot will always be assigned to the yard to build up outgoing trains  and connect them to  a road engine for pulling away.   it will not be permitted to push any trains on or off of the running table, they must be hauled engine first, compounding the necessity for a pilot to be always stationed at this yard.

for ease of build, reduced footprint and overall realism the 3-2-2 variant was chosen and 2 specific industries will serve the yard which will be based on a rural setting to serve short liner trains which were prototypical of the IR era.

Industries were chosen based upon owned wagons and with short containers and beer in mind it actually became quite easy to come up with 5 unique wagons where a lot of the completed trains would actually look somewhat prototypical.

2 unique container loads

1 guinness loaded

1 guinness unloaded

1 bare flat which could belong to either industry, with the bare flat i thought the chances of getting a prototypical train load increase dramatically, the exceptional few cases where you might have a container on either end and a guinness in the middle or somthing are probabaly few and far between so its a happy medium for me for the moment. for the most part i will be seeing 3 car trains with the 2 industries properly coupled out with the odd train being an unprototypical mix. I can always reshuffle if i want a totally realistic train.

 

So where is this going?

its small so i can model it out quickly and focus on actually finishing it, along with the other modules which are not looking all that bad at the moment either. then i can start to focus on some actual proper detailing and maybe even a little weathering, this one is gonna stick around for a while now so I will continue to refine things on it and improve my skillset.

because its essentially a small single loco layout I have finally been able to justify a single loksound because its just for this layout and not the whole fleet! (famous last words im sure because i really like the sound features now .)

Finally, since its a shunting game, I want totally hands free running,I have invested in some uncouplling ramps and DCC point motors which will be added tonight,  points are also the larger type. after that its definitely time to stop building and start playing trains for a while. it would be nice to restrict the speed of the shunting train so that i could give other people a go of the game without worrying about them crashing the trains or breaking any stock.

Sadle with the ceiling height a backscene will not be possibile, but at the same time, with such ceiling proximity it probabaly isn't needed either.

Next we are heading down to the quay for a look at recent developments. update might come tonight or i may postpone until the morning  as that will allow me to take nicer photographs.

 

Edited February 20, 2023 by Sean

[Sean]

+

as we roll into the 90's

 

In an alternate timeline the rail spur has miraculously survived, mainly due to the primary school having being refused planning permission on the proposed site of the old station.

With this IR seen opportunities to create a small barrack street style spur on the old station site and the railway survives for a few local businesses who visit the inglenook yard when they wish to convey goods over longer distances.This in particular includes many of the local publicans who still receive their kegs via rail.....

the old station still had to be demolished to make way for this yard and thats where the inglenook sits now.

the two warehouses in the background are now apartments. the mill has long closed off and has been fenced away to rot.

 

a few customers particularly near to the quay are lucky  enough to be able to take deliveries from the quay directly. only served by the sundries store.

Typical deliveries to the quay will be a cage of kegs and a sundry container to be manually unloaded however occasionally these deliveries will be bound for a boat which will take them off to some of the local islands.

 

Atmospheric shot, kega are the only suitable load i have at the moment  for here but ill change that soon enough.

 

modded the silo a bit to look more prototypical, not in a rush to finish it off really as i dont posess the skill to finish it to a standard that i would like just yet. All in good time.

 

Harbour wall was a kit, meaning i had to cover up my nice waterwork,  will be worth it to redo it in the longer term

 

Back at the yard everything seems to be functioning well, I was however quite annoyed at having to mount one of the point motors on the top of the baseboard.

 

That being said, I did a pretty good job at hiding it within a pair of containers. and i was able to work out how  to handle the other three that ive got for the hard to reach points on the running loop.

So thats it for  now, as things are up and running im sure you can expect some running videos soon enough, and an update of what to expect from the mystery board, as plans always change in that regard!

 

Edited February 23, 2023 by Sean

[Sean]

have just been mostly testing things this week and getting the tracks cleaned up as well as learning the ins and outs of CV's but after a brief hiatus i did get some more building done that will shape the rest of the layout and the room. no videos yet as im still getting to grips with all the fun sound features like drive hold and making the notching sound more realistic.

 

After a decent bit of consideration, Particularly the fact that i am still getting to grips with the concepts of compromise, extrapolation and minimalise in relation to model railways  coupled with  the idea that I would like the trains from the inglenook to have a destination to go to/from and that I kinda need somewhere to run passenger stock to/from with all the nice upcoming releases.

This final board  might just suit my needs perfectly until I have the confidence to expand it into a large running loop that goes around the whole room( thats a WHILE away though just a pipe dream for now)

 

somehow against the odds i have managed to fit in a small passing siding on the main loop without breaking geometry, its usefulness is a little limited though however and might be better suited to a tight siding on the first radius that i could squeeze a rake of coaches around, time will tell on that one as i have now officially used up all of my track except for a pile of hornby points that will be put nowhere near this layout 

 

 

one thing i actually didnt want to compromise on however was the size of the running loop as overall this would limit the possibilitys of what can and cannot be done.

so another country terminus was actually perfect. its also a coy place to station yet another pilot engine.

 

and so the result is that i have actually gone back to the old westport track plan and rebuilt it over  this side of the room as it offers several advantages, once a train has loaded up at the inglenook  it can be driven here and a few cars can be switched in and out and the train can be sent back to the yard and shunted again in order to reset the game and one can repeat this as many times as they would like in a given running session. since this is the original quayside station again and no run around is available, 121's must run bonnet forward here to and from the quays in order to ensure the layout keeps operating smoothly. the main running loop shall be considered single track mainline and bonnet forward is not allowed during continuous running.

 

the loop itself can accomodate 6 mk2's and a dutch van which would be a prototypical rake, however the only downside is that on my main running loop such a train gets to look as if it is chasing its tail (lol) hence the future plans to expand, I will mostly run prototypical half rakes unless there is a special event running which requires the use of a full rake..

 

looks a bit awkward with the computer but its actually okay,  Im considering running a blue curtain along the back of this board in order to act as a backscene that i can open and close as is needed.

 

One conclusion i have reached during this process is that at this scale I really am into the idea of building super detailed micro layouts rather than vast continuous runs of track, mostly for space/practicality and financial reasons. it can be very difficult to get even the most modest of running loops up and running in oo gauge, the idea of basing a larger layout around smaller modules also really works well for me and my average attention span. 

 

To that effect I am considering jacking up the n gauge layout approximately 6 inches so i can put a solid backscene along  the front of the running loop and could model another scene along here. it would be a great place to squeeze in a micro "bog road" type layout that would overall actually only be a few feet long.

 

 

[Sean]

as discussed in my last post, it really did only make sense to tidy this area up and to turn the passing loop into a tight inner siding.

 

Down the other end ive torn out the PWD yard and tidied up the trackage into the goods yard. this has allowed me to stretch out my running loop by almost double the amount of straight.

 

n gauge layout jacked up and back-scene added, this gives me approx 5x1 feet to create a nice little scenic branch line section on a blank canvas that fits in perfectly with the theme of everything else.

Edited March 19, 2023 by Sean

[Patrick Davey]

Impressive use of space - enjoying your updates!

 

[Sean]

been a bit busy so i havent flooded the forum with my usual sleuth of updates but things have been moving along.

 

I really enjoy making up micro modules in small amounts of time and then taking a break before moving onto the next one so the way the room is setup is playing well into that idea. 

made up this bridge using bits off the old layout, not really conforming to any prototype its just a bridge for now.

 

That escalated quickly. nice aul mountainy stretch to throw a few models cars onto the road when all is done.

 

just finished some ballasting and mud scattering in order to test the waters with this type of ballast, its a lot more forgiving than using n scale ballast and since this is technically a different part of the network, i decided ah sher lets use a fresher looking ballast than old tired looking stuff on here. Grass mat is a bit stained from the pva and water mix but i had always anticipated i would be covering most of it with scatter again anyway so it should be grand later on.

 

 

This yoke started off as the dapol bungalow kit, but it never fit where i wanted it so after about 3 failed kitbashes i was left with this little shack. a crossing keepers shack. 

 

this weekend should focus on the somewhat boring but still oddly satisfying building of a field the right hand side is still mostly a blank canvas so the field will somewhat  make things feel a little bit more complete before i spend ages painting and scattering the hillside.

Edited March 31, 2023 by Sean

[JasonB]

On 20/2/2023 at 6:28 PM, Sean said:

 

Is that forklift taking steroids?  

[Sean]

its a 1/32 jobbie but i want to convert it into one of those reach stackers from the era

[JasonB]

20 minutes ago, Sean said:

its a 1/32 jobbie but i want to convert it into one of those reach stackers from the era

I think I have one of them in a box in the attic. Corgi by any chance? 

[Sean]

Ballasting in progress!

[Sean]

[Sean]

[DJ Dangerous]

11 hours ago, Sean said:

That backscene looks familiar...

Oh, wait, of course, it's set in the Canaries.

 

[Sean]

hey ireland looks like that usually once a year