Those newly announced magnetic couplings

[spudfan]

Just ordered in some of the newly announced  Accurascale "Fixed Dellner Coupling Bars - 4 Couplings".Fixed Dellner Coupling Bars - 4 Couplings  — Irish Railway Models

I intend to have them fitted to some Bachmann Tilcon JGA hopper wagons. The hard part is getting the wagons  booked into Inchicore to get the couplings removed and replaced by the new magnetic yokes. It is harder getting booked into Inchicore than it is getting your car booked in for an NCT....

[BosKonay]

Bear in mind the magnetic dellner has magnets and the fixed bar is just that. A fixed plastic bar designed for permanent coupling. 

[spudfan]

Will see how it flies..or rather rolls.

[DJ Dangerous]

What are the limitations of the magnetic Dellner couplings?

As in, what don't they work with?

I've tried them with an A and a single Container Flat, but with the notorious coupling mechanism on the older Flats, they uncouple while moving slowly over points.

@Sean has been testing these pretty thoroughly, so maybe he can list a few incompatible combinations?

Also, aside from grabbing both pieces of rolling stock to pull them apart, is there any trick for more subtle uncoupling of the IRM magnetic couplers?

Like, tapping them with another magnet or something?

 

 

Edited August 5, 2023 by DJ Dangerous
Added question from wrong thread.

[Sean]

At this stage ive put them onto a good range of IRM stuff as well as the accurascale pfa and both types of baby GM.

 

In general they are working for me on anything with kinematic or bogie mounted nem pockets but fixed nem are generally incompatible (more on that later)

For me to be satisfied they must be able to go through my set of peco settrack points crossing over, so im setting the bar a little high.

 

the only caveat that i have found is that on locomotives and certain wagons (including P42) you must space the coupler out or buffer lock will be commonly experienced , this is consistent with reviews left on the IRM site when others have tried using them on locomotives. its not really a big deal and if you put a small amount of pva onto the very end of the dellner, set it to your needs and come back the next day the glue should be solid enough to pull a train whilst still being removable from the socket later (first few times i done this the glue unstuck the next day because i had'nt added enough out of fear of permenantly sticking them in)

 

Looking at your photo it looks like you've seated them all the way into the socket so i have a feeling you will be derailing from buffer contact rather than the ol, coupling flick. Heres what my A looks like with a flat for comparison;

 

What i have found is that whenever I try them on a new piece of stock and get buffer lock on the crossover, spacing them out until the face of the magnets are sitting just proud of the buffers, they are spaced out a tiny bit on the flats but by a good amount on the loco.

 

NOW!, These photos highlight somthing that has been ticking me off for a little while.

One of us, likely me, have put the dellners on upside down! Anybody know which way is supposed to go up? I aint changing mine either way  

[Sean]

edit: Also, last night i fitted a set onto a short ballast rake, plough van and hopper as they are only to be used on straight track in my setup. this probabaly applies to mag too but no guarentees.

as per kadee etc they have to be fixed onto the bottom of the nem pocket due to the height issue.

Results were pleasantly surprising however, as I was expecting zero cornering ability at all.

Indeed a 181 violently flicked the wagon off the rails but a 121 was able to get the wagon through the points if i lightly had my finger on the roof. going to try again tonight with a 121 and some sort of weight in the hopper to see if it can make it without human intervention, I am fairly optimistic.

With regards to the remote uncoupling, I dont think thats possible at all but ive also kinda developed an ethos that its not really necessary with these as you can easily uncouple these without derailing the entire train, which is the MASSIVE drawback for Tension locks. I dont really mind using "the hand of god" here because on the real railway things are coupled and broken up by hand  and in a shunting yard all the switching is done by hand so i also end up applying the same logic to all the points on my layout.

Edited August 5, 2023 by Sean

[Sean]

Hey @DJ Dangerous

 

 

Looks like i was wrong about uncoupling  

 

now to decide if i actually want/need such a thing before i go spreading ballast!

[DJ Dangerous]

What did he do? Looks like a death ray.

[Ironroad]

I have my doubts about magnetic couplings but that video puts a new slant on things, the demo looks very good, but I have the same question as DJ, what is he using to break the magnetic field, pity that isn't explained.

[Broithe]

It seems that it might be a 'rising chock' which acts to brake the stock and the loco pulls away, breaking the coupling.

 

[DJ Dangerous]

3 minutes ago, Ironroad said:

I have my doubts about magnetic couplings but that video puts a new slant on things, the demo looks very good, but I have the same question as DJ, what is he using to break the magnetic field, pity that isn't explained.

 

The video description is useless, but in one of the comments, he says:

"Sorry - I should have been clearer. There is a Scotch block that rises just inside the rail and acts against the wheel. The slot through which it comes is discrete, and it all seems to be effective."

And then:

"Hi Bruce. The stock is held back by a rising wheel chock, detailed here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mf3d-Lq8QrQ&t=218s"

In the subsequent video, he does go into detail - it's a 3D printed actuator that physically rises up through the track:

 

 

[Noel]

Haven’t enjoyed success trying hunt magnetic couplings so sticking with Kadee’s because they are reliable, look better and uncoupling is simpler, inexpensive and reliable. The other annoying headache with magnetic couplings is the fixed polarity of wagon orientation.

[Past-Avenue]

Hi 

I have started to use the Magnetic Dellner and find that they work great for me . As some of youmay know that my layout has inclines and was not great looking at trains bunch up and then take up the slack.  I first used them on my MK3 push pull that I recently finished and they worked once I got rid of the buffer lock.  I have fitted them to my pallet cement wagons witch are on a Daplo chassis. I've the IRM Fertiliser and some 42ft flats done but I had a little bit of modification to do to get rid of the buffer lock.  All said they have made a great improvement to the appearance and running trains on my layout. 

[Ironroad]

5 hours ago, DJ Dangerous said:

 

The video description is useless, but in one of the comments, he says:

"Sorry - I should have been clearer. There is a Scotch block that rises just inside the rail and acts against the wheel. The slot through which it comes is discrete, and it all seems to be effective."

And then:

"Hi Bruce. The stock is held back by a rising wheel chock, detailed here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mf3d-Lq8QrQ&t=218s"

In the subsequent video, he does go into detail - it's a 3D printed actuator that physically rises up through the track:

 

 

Clever and I'm sure the makers of magnetic couplings may be interested in producing this, he should patent it. (and as noted the design has other potential uses)  It looks like  a great deal of precision is required to get it to act as a chock against a wheel flange.  It seems to me it would be  less fussy and easier to to install  if it simply held an axle. That would still be very discreet.

[Sean]

Sadly it did not work as the magnets themselves are just too strong and the loco wheelspins instead of pulling away gracefully.

 

Ive got somthing else to try but i reckon i will be happy enough with hand uncoupling for the forseeable. its one thing i really dont mind too much.

[DJ Dangerous]

7 hours ago, Sean said:

Sadly it did not work as the magnets themselves are just too strong and the loco wheelspins instead of pulling away gracefully.

 

Ive got somthing else to try but i reckon i will be happy enough with hand uncoupling for the forseeable. its one thing i really dont mind too much.

 

What were you trying that was getting the locos wheelspinning?

 

20 hours ago, Past-Avenue said:

Hi 

I have started to use the Magnetic Dellner and find that they work great for me . As some of youmay know that my layout has inclines and was not great looking at trains bunch up and then take up the slack.  I first used them on my MK3 push pull that I recently finished and they worked once I got rid of the buffer lock.  I have fitted them to my pallet cement wagons witch are on a Daplo chassis. I've the IRM Fertiliser and some 42ft flats done but I had a little bit of modification to do to get rid of the buffer lock.  All said they have made a great improvement to the appearance and running trains on my layout. 

 

I like the 'phone box!

And is that a DAF 2800 with a fuel tanker?

Edited August 7, 2023 by DJ Dangerous

[Northroader]

With those couplings, they’re formed round small button magnets. To attract each other, you need a North Pole facing a South Pole,  so you need the different poles facing out at the opposite ends of the vehicle, and if the vehicle is turned round, they will repel each other.
Watching the video, you can see the one coupling dip as it uncouples. This says to me you have an electromagnetic coil under the base board, and when this is switched on, the field will attract the one coupling down towards it, and push the other coupling up away from it, so you can pull the wagons apart. I don’t buy into the idea of having a retractable stop coming up to hold the wagon, and you use extra pull from the loco to force the vehicles apart.

[Ironroad]

2 hours ago, Northroader said:

With those couplings, they’re formed round small button magnets. To attract each other, you need a North Pole facing a South Pole,  so you need the different poles facing out at the opposite ends of the vehicle, and if the vehicle is turned round, they will repel each other.
Watching the video, you can see the one coupling dip as it uncouples. This says to me you have an electromagnetic coil under the base board, and when this is switched on, the field will attract the one coupling down towards it, and push the other coupling up away from it, so you can pull the wagons apart. I don’t buy into the idea of having a retractable stop coming up to hold the wagon, and you use extra pull from the loco to force the vehicles apart.

I'm not too sure about any of this either. The concept of a stop in the track bed does not

exactly sit well with me.  But the explanation indicated that a retractable stop was being used to hold the wagon and perhaps one of the couplings drops slightly simply because there is a bit of droop in it.   Initially it seemed to me that the magnetic attraction itself was being broken but I think it would call for a very strong magnetic field to push one of the couplings upwards and pull the other downwards and the distance involved adds to the power of the field required. It would also mean that some vertical play in the couplings is needed.  And at what point does the magnetic force result in up ending a wagon by pulling on the axle.

I'm also reliably advised by DJD that in the case of the IRM magnetic couplings each coupling has two magnets a positive and a negative, (this gets around the need to be consistent as to which way round rolling stock is placed on the track and solves the problem if a turntable or reverse loop is used) so activating a magnetic field under the baseboard is not going to act against them. 

 

Edited August 7, 2023 by Ironroad
typo

[JasonB]

On 6/8/2023 at 12:15 PM, Past-Avenue said:

  I have fitted them to my pallet cement wagons witch are on a Daplo chassis.

I see the pocket is fixed in place with a small screw. Does this allow the pocket to move slightly left and right when running on curves? I didn't think it was possible to use the Dellner on non bogie stock. 

[Past-Avenue]

Hi Jason  yes it dose and it needs to be fixed like this if the coupler is attached to the boggie as well to allow movement . 

Enda 

[Ironroad]

3 hours ago, Past-Avenue said:

Hi Jason  yes it dose and it needs to be fixed like this if the coupler is attached to the boggie as well to allow movement . 

Enda 

This might be a better solution http://www.symoba-schniering.de/supp-dateien/daten.htm

[JasonB]

4 hours ago, Past-Avenue said:

Hi Jason  yes it dose and it needs to be fixed like this if the coupler is attached to the boggie as well to allow movement . 

Enda 

Cheers, Enda. Thought so.