Richard Chown

Colin R · February 2, 2023

Hi Guys

The other day I was looking at someones Blog on the internet and it happen to mention the late Richard Chown's layout Castle Rackrent, this in turn got me thinking I wonder what happen to all his 7mm Irish locos, rolling stock plus of course his layouts.

Does any one have that information or have anything to add to this?

Galteemore · February 2, 2023

All sold off. @David Holmandefinitely knows something about it, and has posted here on the subject. Kicking myself, as I lived in Edinburgh from 1989-93 and could easily have seen the line working. Another opportunity missed!

Edited February 2, 2023 by Galteemore

Garfield · February 2, 2023

I seem to remember that @David Holman even purchased one of the locomotives...

I think one of the layouts was exported to a museum in Norway?

David Holman · February 2, 2023

I did indeed - the wonderful WL&WR 0-6-0 Shannon, plus his two Dublin and Meath brake vans. Later, I got an unbuilt kit of a J15, plus a signal and some wheels.

All have threads on this forum, either in my Work bench section, or the Tribute to Richard Chown thread. Met him once at the Manchester show, when we ran his Sligo Small Tank, Lissadel on my Arigna Town layout.

He seemed a lovely guy and definitely one of my heroes. Didn't just do Irish stuff either. French 0 gauge, Norwegian narrow gauge and Brecon and Merthyr among his many interests!

David Holman · February 2, 2023

A couple of pictures of stuff I got from Richard's estate.

This is Shannon, after I'd done a bit of restoration work. The model is close to 50 years old and was built by Richard for the original Castle Rackrent that he built in his bedsit! Appeared in the June 1975 RM. Not sure it was ever cleaned, but beautifully made & will relate more when I get to that part of my collection. Suffice to say it must have run many, many actual miles over the vast system he built up - as the state of the tender wheels below shows:

Looks at that groove in the tread!

Quite why he built the Dublin and Meath brake vans is anyone's guess, but they are certainly nice models, constructed from wood rather than plastic.

And here's the 101, alongside Shannon. Quite why Richard never built it is a mystery, but it remained untouched for 20 years until his executor offered it to me at Guildex back in 2018.

Colin R · February 2, 2023

They are great looking models, thanks for sharing them on here

WRENNEIRE · February 3, 2023

Do I remember a list of all his stock doing the rounds some years back?

David Holman · February 3, 2023

When Richard passed away, his executor did indeed circulate lists of all his stuff, inviting sealed bids for whole layouts and individual items. I believe his 3'6 gauge Norwegian layout went to Norway, while at least part of Castle Rackrent went to the 'barber's shop's museum in Manorhamilton, so may be on display there.

Richard could build on a grand scale and I sometimes wonder what happened to his French layout with its vast two metre high viaduct?

It would be great to hear more about his work and indeed the man himself. There were a couple of articles in MRJ and photos on the internet, but can't help thinking we ought to have more on this forum. Drew Donaldson and Tony Miles too, for that matter!

Edited February 3, 2023 by David Holman

Galteemore · February 3, 2023

Somewhere in the back issues of the RPSI mag ‘Five Foot Three’ is an obit of Drew, whilst the Gauge O Guild online archive has a series of his articles. In his inimitable style….see screengrab below. As you see, he even manages a pop at the legendary John van Riemsdijk, a highly influential figure - and manufacturer - in large scale modelling whose day job was a highly senior position at the Science Museum and later National Railway Museum! During the war, JvR was an engineer with Special Operations Executive, devising all kinds of 007 style gadgets. He was also one of the duo behind the Aster live steam brand. So no lightweight.

But Drew still thought he had got clockwork wrong! There is a lovely account in a recent IRRS journal on Bob Clements’ 1940s activities, which namechecks Drew. The Gardai got very suspicious of RNC travelling around during the ‘Emergency’ recording railway movements, which was of course classic spy activity, and hauled him in. The Guards found correspondence between him and Drew on the subject which looked extremely dubious to them. The argot of timers looks suspiciously like a secret code…..

Apologies for blue font which has appeared after cutting and pasting Mr v R’s name! I have very dim memories of Drew, (he died when I was about 6), but he was a visitor to our home when I was young, and I did see his layout working. I think that’s when the 7mm bug bit…..

Tony Miles has some nice tributes here: https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/71940-tony-miles-rip/#comment-1228251

Here’s a sample from Martin Wynne, a core member of the Adavoyle team:

Those who know the layout will know that we used P.O. type relays as point motors. At one time these were a standard fitting on many a model railway. But by the mid 1980s they were becoming hard to find. We had a few, but needed many more.

Tony and his wife were in the habit of lunching at a pub in a nearby village. Returning one day pleasantly refreshed he noticed a truck parked outside the village telephone exchange. Tony being Tony he stopped to find out what was happening. A lone telephone engineer was carrying out racks of equipment and throwing them into the back of the truck for scrapping. Seeing that they contained the very relays we needed, Tony asked if he could have them. The engineer replied "No chance, I have to take them back to the depot". But Tony worked his spell and the engineer added "of course, while I'm inside I can't see what's happening out here". So every time the engineer went into the building for the next one, Tony "rescued" the last one from the truck and placed it in the back of his car. The engineer soon saw what was happening, and started placing the racks carefully on the ground by Tony's car: "these things are heavy, I'll chuck it in the truck in a minute". He later found that a £5 note had got caught under the windscreen wiper.

Edited February 3, 2023 by Galteemore

David Holman · February 3, 2023

Gold dust!

These folk are so important to our hobby and it is wonderful to hear more about them.

Northroader · February 3, 2023

I was lucky enough to catch up with Castle Rackrent a long time back, on one of the rare times it came down from Scotland. Was it one of the first layout designs for the BLT/ fiddle yard format, and with a kickback to mask the fiddle yard? Then was Allendenac, with that huge viaduct. You had to marvel at the audacity of anyone building something that large, and bringing it to a show. I saw it at Telford, and thought it must have required a furniture van to shift it? There’s a nice write up with some good pictures here:

https://highlandmiscellany.com/tag/richard-chown/

Edited February 3, 2023 by Northroader

Galteemore · February 3, 2023

A bit more on Tony Miles……

Colin R · February 3, 2023

So If I have this right Tony's first layout still exists somewhere in Ireland and his second Adavoyle layout is now with the South Dublin Club is that right?

StevieB · February 3, 2023

I had the pleasure of visiting Ashford Carbonnell many years ago with, now defunct, Worcester Circle to see Adavoyle Junction in action. It was a truly lovely day. I am pleased that it survives in the care of the South Dublin MRC.

Stephen

leslie10646 · February 4, 2023

I met Tony M a few times. Once, of all places, at Chippenham where the local society decided to have an Irish-themed exhibition. The Syndicate was there raising funds for the RPSI, but to enter into the spirit of the thing, we had an exhibit of Father John Brennan's O Gauge Irish locos. Adavoyle was right next door to us, so when we weren't selling books, we watched trains and Tony regaled us with endless hilarious tales of railways and the Navy.

The immortal Drew was a great friend both as a modeller and when we were both trying to fill RPSI tours in the troubled years of the 1970s. Galteemore's estimable Dad was doing his magic (and a lot of very hard work) to keep the Society financially afloat.

About twenty-odd years ago, I had the effrontery to give a talk to the London Area of the IRRS on Irish railway modelling. Who should turn up but Richard Chown who completely eclipsed anything I was showing with what he produced from his case! A remarkable man.

No, they were ALL remarkable men!

David Holman · February 4, 2023

It pains me to say that as a long time member of the Chatham & District Model Railway Club, I have little or no memory of Adavoyle being at the Dockyard show. However, the year in question sticks in the mind for other reasons. We had lost the use of the Fitted Rigging House (a vast area of warehouses fronting the river) so for reasons best thought at the time, decided to hold the show in a large marquee, set up on the 'pea shingle'.

This was a parade ground type area which proved far from level, or indeed stable. Needless to say, it chucked it down that weekend and the tent leaked, damaging at least one layout. I was doing a model buildings demonstration that year, so had little time to look round and hence missed Adavoyle, which must have delayed my entry into Irish models by several years.

As for Richard, he was well known for turning up with things of interest to share and I believe even took a layout to shows by train, though not the epic Allenedac of course! When I met him at the Manchester Show, I got an invite to take Arigna Town to Glasgow, which I couldn't do and hence missed the chance to have other Castle Rackrent locos on my layout. At the time, I think I had the only other 7mm scale Irish broad gauge exhibition layout and then Richard died the next year - a huge loss to the hobby.

Horsetan · February 4, 2023

1 hour ago, David Holman said:

It pains me to say that as a long time member of the Chatham & District Model Railway Club, I have little or no memory of Adavoyle being at the Dockyard show....

I do. I was on the operating team for Adavoyle at Chatham one year, and still have a few non-digital photos from then.

Mayner · February 4, 2023

I was lucky enough to see Richard Chown's Castlerackrent in the flesh at a small exhibition in rural Perthshire, possibly Abernethney during the 1990s and the late David Walker's Killanney layout a Yorkshire Castlerack offshoot.

I met Tony Miles at a Bristol exhibition in the late 80s and was invited into the operating well of the partially completed second Advaoyle layout.

Apart from his considerable technical/modelling ability effectively developing fine scale 4mm standards or P4 independently of the Model Railway Study Group, he seems to have had a great ability to recruit groups of like minded modelers to work on his two Adavoyle Layouts first on Merseyside, the Aberyswyth before finally settling in Ludlow.

Richard Chown a BR engineer likewise recruited a large team to regularly operate his Castle Rackrent, basically an Irish pre-amalgamation American style operating layout with several stations which could be arranged in different format for exhibitions.

I was inspired by Castle Rackrent ever since it appeared in the Modeller some time in 75-76 but never got round to building a successful Irish 5'3" gauge layout though I have managed to build a fair number of locos and stock during the last 40 odd years.

Colin R · February 4, 2023

1 hour ago, Mayner said:

I was lucky enough to see Richard Chown's Castle Rackrent in the flesh at a small exhibition in rural Perthshire, possibly Abernethy during the 1990s and the late David Walker's Killanney layout a Yorkshire Castle Rackrent offshoot.

I met Tony Miles at a Bristol exhibition in the late 80s and was invited into the operating well of the partially completed second Advaoyle layout.

Apart from his considerable technical/modelling ability effectively developing fine scale 4mm standards or P4 independently of the Model Railway Study Group, he seems to have had a great ability to recruit groups of like minded modelers to work on his two Adavoyle Layouts first on Merseyside, the Aberyswyth before finally settling in Ludlow.

Richard Chown a BR engineer likewise recruited a large team to regularly operate his Castle Rackrent, basically an Irish pre-amalgamation American style operating layout with several stations which could be arranged in different format for exhibitions.

I was inspired by Castle Rackrent ever since it appeared in the Modeller some time in 75-76 but never got round to building a successful Irish 5'3" gauge layout though I have managed to build a fair number of locos and stock during the last 40 odd years.

Hi John

Thanks for that as it clears up one mystery for me, I have wondered for some time what happen to David Walker, so as he is no longer with us again I wonder what happen to that layout, I guess that unless anyone took an interest in it, it may well have ended up in the local council skip.

As for Richards big layout I don't recall seeing to many photos of it in full operation or any articles, I understand he used to produce a magazine about it, but again I have never seen any of those, I just wonder if there is enough information about his layout weather or not a a book like the white series from Wild Swan could be viable?

Galteemore · February 4, 2023

There are several Model Railway Journal references, Colin, esp 127, 202 and 234

Edited February 4, 2023 by Galteemore

David Holman · February 4, 2023

Dave Walker - another pioneer. I had dinner with him once, in the company of Gordon and Maggie Gravett, plus Andrew Burnham of Continental Modeller. It was at the old St Albans show. Dave was into Gauge One by then and it was another opportunity missed. I sometimes think I must go around with my eyes and eyes closed!

Horsetan · February 4, 2023

3 minutes ago, David Holman said:

..... I sometimes think I must go around with my ears and eyes closed!

Sometimes 'tis better that way.

Colin R · February 4, 2023

58 minutes ago, David Holman said:

Dave Walker - another pioneer. I had dinner with him once, in the company of Gordon and Maggie Gravett, plus Andrew Burnham of Continental Modeller. It was at the old St Albans show. Dave was into Gauge One by then and it was another opportunity missed. I sometimes think I must go around with my eyes and eyes closed!

Sometimes the name and a certain layout do not alway come to mind at the same time, had a similar experience at an exhibition with the late Ian Rice, I knew the face but could I remember his name at the time no how embarrassing that is.

Galteemore · February 4, 2023

I unwittingly walked past Iain Rice at Railex a few years ago, when he was drifting around the show unaccompanied. What an opportunity. But on balance, it was probably best for both of us. I suspect he’d have been channeling BA Baracus by the end of the encounter.

Edited February 4, 2023 by Galteemore

jhb171achill · February 4, 2023

18 hours ago, leslie10646 said:

I met Tony M a few times. Once, of all places, at Chippenham where the local society decided to have an Irish-themed exhibition. The Syndicate was there raising funds for the RPSI, but to enter into the spirit of the thing, we had an exhibit of Father John Brennan's O Gauge Irish locos. Adavoyle was right next door to us, so when we weren't selling books, we watched trains and Tony regaled us with endless hilarious tales of railways and the Navy.

What became of Fr. John's models? I wonder is he still with us? He used to be a regular on the RPSI May Tour - very nice guy.

Horsetan · February 4, 2023

12 hours ago, Horsetan said:

I do. I was on the operating team for Adavoyle at Chatham one year, and still have a few non-digital photos from then.

I have exhumed the few scans of the Chatham gig. It was in late Spring 2002. I had been called in at fairly short notice so it was straight from the office in Shepherds Bush on Friday evening, driving direct to Chatham to help set up - I think it took the best part of three hours - then back to the hotel for dinner and drink. To my horror I had left my toothbrush and toothpaste at home, so woke up on the Saturday with distinctly furry teeth.

That was the year the rain really came down, making the show tents a humid place to be. Unfortunately one tent roof partly collapsed under the collected volume of rainwater, and a trading stand was underneath it - I understand a substantial insurance claim had to be made.

Note that Tony's eyesight appeared to be not as good as it used to be..... He sent me a letter of thanks after, and I'm happy to post it up here if you want a look.

David Holman · February 4, 2023

Fabulous! Thank you.

leslie10646 · February 5, 2023

6 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

What became of Fr. John's models? I wonder is he still with us? He used to be a regular on the RPSI May Tour - very nice guy.

John is still the Parish Priest of Chipping Camden and he still delights in his models.

I called to see him for ten minutes on New Year's Day 2020 and was there over an hour later. Always excellent company. It appears that the True Church doesn't let you retire!

jhb171achill · February 5, 2023

1 hour ago, leslie10646 said:

John is still the Parish Priest of Chipping Camden and he still delights in his models.

I called to see him for ten minutes on New Year's Day 2020 and was there over an hour later. Always excellent company. It appears that the True Church doesn't let you retire!

Give him my regards next time you see him!

Colin R · February 5, 2023

Anyone got some photos of his models they care to put on here?

Colin

Galteemore · February 5, 2023

4 hours ago, Colin R said:

Anyone got some photos of his models they care to put on here?

Colin

Johnson and O’Rourke’s book on Irish modelling contains a number of photos on pages 74-75. They are exquisite- including 800 Maedb in proper GS green, and GSWR/GN locos in their respective greens. The complex liveries look spot on. He also, I know, has an SLNC Lissadell from the North Star kit, painted plain black and seen below, from the New Irish Line archive. It has the correct plain black buffer shanks. At least some of his models are to 36.75mm gauge.

Edited February 5, 2023 by Galteemore

jhb171achill · February 5, 2023

On 2/2/2023 at 9:07 PM, David Holman said:

A couple of pictures of stuff I got from Richard's estate.

This is Shannon, after I'd done a bit of restoration work. The model is close to 50 years old and was built by Richard for the original Castle Rackrent that he built in his bedsit! Appeared in the June 1975 RM. Not sure it was ever cleaned, but beautifully made & will relate more when I get to that part of my collection. Suffice to say it must have run many, many actual miles over the vast system he built up - as the state of the tender wheels below shows:

Looks at that groove in the tread!

Quite why he built the Dublin and Meath brake vans is anyone's guess, but they are certainly nice models, constructed from wood rather than plastic.

And here's the 101, alongside Shannon. Quite why Richard never built it is a mystery, but it remained untouched for 20 years until his executor offered it to me at Guildex back in 2018.

Any idea where he got the Dublin & Meath drawings?

David Holman · February 5, 2023

Not a Scooby, JB. Took me long enough to find out what prototype they were based on!

Curious choice, especially with Richard tending to favour the WL&W, whereas [I believe], the D&M became part of the MGW. As for why he built two...

Photos of Castle Rackrent show at least one of them as part of the 'Mail Goods', something I've tried to replicate on Belmullet. Hauled by Shannon, it made a nice train - more of which anon on my Collection thread

Horsetan · February 5, 2023

21 hours ago, Horsetan said:

.....

As can be seen from the photo, Tony's K1a/393 no.395, was a fabulous thing. Almost entirely scratchbuilt.

It was only years later when I was able to track down the dimensions of the Woolwich Moguls that I realised Tony had made an error in the relationship between the greater width of the footplate and the cab. When the Moguls were assembled in the late MGW/GSR era, the engine frames were spaced wider, and the overall width of the footplate was wider. What did not change was the cab width, resulting in an appreciable ledge between the cabside and the footplate edge. The same applied to the tender tank, which remained the same width as the original SECR/SR design.

If you look at the above photo of 395, the cabside is too close to the footplate edge, which suggests Tony widened the cab when there was no need to. The same goes for the tender.

That said, his is the only model of a K1a I have ever seen, in any scale. Maybe it's still the only one ever built.

Edited February 5, 2023 by Horsetan

Northroader · February 5, 2023

Aahhh... the Chippenham show with the Irish theme, I had the good fortune to be there, Sunday I think i went, 29th October, 1995, taking totally rubbish photos, so if you’ll indulge me...