Sligo Station

[Colin R]

I am sorry if this has been answered before, but does anyone know if the current Sligo station was meant to be extended and the line to be continued up to Bundoran / Ballyshannon or somewhere else?

Thanks

Colin Rainsbury

[Galteemore]

15 minutes ago, Colin R said:

I am sorry if this has been answered before, but does anyone know if the current Sligo station was meant to be extended and the line to be continued up to Bundoran / Ballyshannon or somewhere else?

Thanks

Colin Rainsbury

1875 plan allowed for a Bundoran-Sligo railway. This was abandoned in 1878 when the SLNC was authorised instead. 

[David Holman]

Given the site of the station, a fair bit of engineering would have been needed to make it into a through line. Would make an interesting model though! More than one person on this forum has pondered on the other line out of Sligo, namely the branch down to the quay. Have often thought it would have made a nice passenger line if extended up the coast a bit.

[StevieB]

I think we will find that the failure to build the GNR(I)line from Sligo to Bundoran lead to the SLNCR line from Enniskillen to Sligo. The more direct line between Sligo and Bundoran would have been interesting.

Stephen

[Mayner]

Possibly a line on a viaduct from the station until it reached the higher ground North of the river towards the hospital.

Interestingly the station building seem to be to the south side of the station with apparently a blank wall behind the buffers.

Sligo in the Victorian era would have been pretty compact as a city, the Merchant Princes and local Gentry/landowners would have had a lot of control the final say.

Would have been challenging to locate a line that would avoid the city centre apart from going via Manorhamilton on account of the short distance between the city centre and Lough Gill.

A coastal line to Bundoran and possibly on to Donegal Town might have possibly survived as an extension of Dublin-Sligo services.

[Colin R]

Since I don't have that much Irish stock at present, I am drawn to Sligo Engine Shed as a display module, I did see that Angus was building a 2mm scale version of this station, I wonder if it got finished or is it still being worked on?   

Colin

Edited May 25 by Colin R

[Angus]

Hi Colin, 

The Sligo project was always something for the future. It would need a large amount of stock to be built to effectively represent the station. I've a build underway of a fictional terminus in the Sligo area which will allow the gradual accumulation of stock without appearing ridiculous. 

That build is on hold for a couple of reasons but I hope to recommence later in the year. 

I do plan a visit to Sligo at some point in the next year or so to do some detailed photography to assist. 

Edited May 29 by Angus

[StevieB]

On 25/5/2024 at 12:31 PM, Mayner said:

Possibly a line on a viaduct from the station until it reached the higher ground North of the river towards the hospital.

Interestingly the station building seem to be to the south side of the station with apparently a blank wall behind the buffers.

Sligo in the Victorian era would have been pretty compact as a city, the Merchant Princes and local Gentry/landowners would have had a lot of control the final say.

Would have been challenging to locate a line that would avoid the city centre apart from going via Manorhamilton on account of the short distance between the city centre and Lough Gill.

A coastal line to Bundoran and possibly on to Donegal Town might have possibly survived as an extension of Dublin-Sligo services.

The idea of Manorhamilton as a junction is an interesting one. If the big companies had become involved, we could have seen Great Northern trains to Sligo and Midland trains to Bundoran. Imagination is a wonderful thing.

Stephen

[Irishswissernie]

With regard to Glengarriff & Four Masters Bridge Sligo & Donegal Junction Railway on this Forum; I worked out a plan for the Sligo Terminus and connections which envisaged a passenger Terminus at a lower level  at right angles to the 'train shed' north side . This then curved to the north east roughly next to the Sligo Quay goods line before turning right towards the Customhouse  Quay with a connection back to the Goods station for the working of through goods traffic. The line then crossed the river with  either a lifting or swing bridge to provide access to the old quay nearer the town. This gives me an excuse just to to run a local set of 2 Cravens and Generator Van or the forthcoming Mk 3 Push/Pull set rather than a long set of Mk 2's but still able to run through goods trains. The alternative is just a link to the goods station which would the involve a double  reversal to enable passenger trains to reach the main station (shades of Limerick Junction !)

EDIT. No houses or buildings are harmed in this plan!

Edited May 30 by Irishswissernie

[Mayner]

I once imagined a MGWR line north from Carrick on Shannon through along the west shore of Lough Allen through Manorhamilton on to Bundoran, not sure if such a scheme was promoted, but interesting Manorhamilton becoming a railway crossroads.

At one stage the Midland and Great Northern planned to take over the line and 'divide it for traffic purposes" at Manorhamilton, but the proposal was apparently defeated by Sligo interests who were opposed to the Midland gaining a monopoly position.

An end-on junction between the Midland and GNR at Manorhamilton would have been interesting potentially like the DWWR and GSWR at Ballywillan on the Bagnallstown & Wexford with each company working into the station but passenger trains not-quite connecting.  Possibly original SLNCR facilities with the addition of a turntable, each company working their section of the line with small 0-6-0s on account of the grades. The ex-SLNCR 0-6-4Ts would have been considered non-standard (an strange) by both companies.

[Colin R]

Hi Angus

I happen to agree with you on the point about Sligo as a station, my take on it is that the powers that be managed to get the existing station at Sligo extened and managed to get the railway to run at a high level throught the Town itself on a viaduct, where it then cross the river and headed north to Bundoran.

The only major issue I have with this set up is that any freight coming down from the GNR would have to reverse down into the good yard off the main line, unless I added a single line as an avolding line of the station itself, at present this is the only major issues I have, but since I am changing the layout with the addition of a GNR(I) connection, then I need to make the whole thing believable to say the least. 

 

[jhb171achill]

It is difficult to see how the current station could ever have been made into a through station. I feel what would have been far more likely, had the line been extended northwards, would have been a completely new passenger station somewhere in the vicinity of Harbour Road; as others suggest, at a somewhat higher level. Had such a line been built, it is probable that trains today would have Bundoran as a terminus, or possibly even Donegal! Now, THAT would be useful. But would the SLNCR have been built? (Galteemore, please turn over the page now...) Probably not. But a MGWR branch to Manorhamilton? Now THERE's an idea!

[Colin R]

3 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

It is difficult to see how the current station could ever have been made into a through station. I feel what would have been far more likely, had the line been extended northwards, would have been a completely new passenger station somewhere in the vicinity of Harbour Road; as others suggest, at a somewhat higher level. Had such a line been built, it is probable that trains today would have Bundoran as a terminus, or possibly even Donegal! Now, THAT would be useful. But would the SLNCR have been built? (Galteemore, please turn over the page now...) Probably not. But a MGWR branch to Manorhamilton? Now THERE's an idea!

Now I like that one and it might just work as a model

[jhb171achill]

30 minutes ago, Colin R said:

Now I like that one and it might just work as a model

A MGWR terminus in Donegal across the road from the CDRJC one!

[Colin R]

If I need to build just one MGWR steam locomotive for such a service what would it be?

[Galteemore]

49 minutes ago, Colin R said:

If I need to build just one MGWR steam locomotive for such a service what would it be?

J26 or J18

[jhb171achill]

2 hours ago, Colin R said:

If I need to build just one MGWR steam locomotive for such a service what would it be?

You mean a Manorhamilton branch line, or a Donegal extension? If the former, a J26 or G2 2.4.0 or a J18 0.6.0. If the latter, a J18, G2 or a "Woolwich" possibly.

Edited May 29 by jhb171achill

[Angus]

10 hours ago, Galteemore said:

 

 

11 hours ago, Colin R said:

If I need to build just one MGWR steam locomotive for such a service what would it be?

I've always thought the G2 2-4-0s were the quintessential MGWR engine, long lived and rebuilt multiple times so you can have a few of them each looking totally different. That said a J18 would be more practical. 

Edited May 30 by Angus

[David Holman]

All are available in 7mm scale, from Alphagraphix, along with six wheel coaches, various wagons etc.

 Go on, you know it makes sense!

[Colin R]

I have been poundering this question all day and i wonder if anyone would care to up date us with what UK OO gauge locos can be modified to look more Irish, I an think in term of the Dapol Dean goods as a starter for 10.

Regards

Colin Rainsbury 

[jhb171achill]

A "Woolwich" can be made up from one of the Southern Railway "N" class 2.6.0s - just remove the "blinkers" and drop it into a bucket of dark grey paint! (Or lined green after 1946).

As far as a Dean Goods is concerned, if it is to fit into a Sligo scenario it has to be a loco of MGWR origin ideally, though obviously WLWR & GSWR types came in off the "Burma Road".

The cab of a Dean goods is unlike most that the GSWR or MGWR had, but is not at all unlike WLWR cabs. A simple repaint will turn it into a very generic WLWR 0.6.0; it could, for the sake of argument, given a round-topped firebox and alterations to the front splashers, be turned into one of the two 235 class - but they were scrapped in 1927 & 1951.

Alter its cab to a more GSWR-ish style - a simple job with plasticard - and it's good enough as a generic loco off the Burma Road - one of the many iterations of the J15 class.

I have seen a picture of a MGWR J17 with a cab a bit like that. This would work, and would be arguably more suitable, as these would have been more typical in that area.

The only "must" would be the removal of the brass GWR dome and to put the safety valves in the normal place instead of on top of the cab.

All 0.6.0s would be plain grey up to the mid-1950s, some with flying snails, others not. Towards the last few years of steam, a small number of 0.6.0s were repainted plain black - again, some would acquire flying snails while others didn't.

[Colin R]

Thanks, In time I hope to only have prototype locos running on the layout, but for now it was to just get something running and to give me a quick steam loco to try out 21mm gauge.

What I will need at some point are drawings of J26, G2 2.4.0 or a J18 0.6.0. Locos if they still exist.

 

[Galteemore]

4 hours ago, Colin R said:

Thanks, In time I hope to only have prototype locos running on the layout, but for now it was to just get something running and to give me a quick steam loco to try out 21mm gauge.

What I will need at some point are drawings of J26, G2 2.4.0 or a J18 0.6.0. Locos if they still exist.

 

Colin - it’s probably just as easy to build an SSM kit to 21mm gauge as try to fiddle with an OO gauge model, and creating an extra 4.5mm of clearance within the body shell. At least one of the drawings you are after will be inModel Railway Constructor, early 70s  - Tim Cramer’s J26. Roger Crombleholme has main outline drawings of J18 and G2. 

[Mayner]

Colin;

If you are planning to work in 21mm gauge your better off starting with an etched kit or scratchbuilding than attempting to modify a plastic injection moulded or 3D printed body 

From experience clearance between loco body and running gear are extremely limited in assembling a TMD/SSM or one of my loco kits to 21mm gauge. My 'Gaggle of J15s" thread should give you an idea of the challenges involved in assembling a 21mm gauge loco using EM/OO profile wheels.

The SSM/TMD MGWR Small Tank is a relatively straightforward kit but its supplied in pre-1912 condition and would require replacement smokebox door, riveted smokebox, Inchacore chimney and replacement safety valves to run in late GSR/CIE conditions.

I can supply the MGWR/G2 2-4-0 kit to order.

The GSR X Boiler version of the J19 0-6-0 is on the to-do list just haven't gotten round to it, though drew the valences early this year.

GSR/CIE drawings of the J26, G2 or J18 in their GSR rebuilt form do not appear to exist. 

MGWR diagrams of the E, Ks and L,LM classes exist and were incorporated into the GSR diagram book for instance the GSR diagram of the G2 is of the loco in post WW1 superheated condition with canopy cab, the J18 is of the loco in as built form with flyaway cab. A lot of supposition and crystal glazing is involved in building a model of a MGWR loco in rebuilt condition with superheated boiler and "Inchacore cab"

The MGWR and GSR loco diagrams were published by New Irish Lines about 10 years ago, I can forward copies.

[Colin R]

Hi John, thank you, you have answered my next question as to what etch kits are still available, I already have two of your loco kits to build and three tin vans as well.

The late Richard Chown must have had some drawings but I don't know who is best to contact about them now, David Walker who built 'Killaney' all those years ago, only had five locos when the article appear in Railway Modeller in November 1985.

Reading this link has made me wonder if I should try to built the layout based on Sligo rather that attempt to build a scale model of it, just the loco shed area in 4mm will take up a space of 8ft by 3ft plus 2 4ft x 3ft fiddle yards one at each each will make it 16ft if i decide to ever take it on to the exhibition circuit.

The need for the layout is mainly to be used as a display of Irish 21mm gauge locos and rolling stock, also to help me improve on my basic modelling skills.

I am not sure what Irish standard gauge locos Worsley still do, but I am sure that both a W and a WT locos will appear at some point.

At this rate the model will be turninig into a cross boarder layout or a number of speicals may be run as well.   

[Colin R]

3 hours ago, Galteemore said:

Colin - it’s probably just as easy to build an SSM kit to 21mm gauge as try to fiddle with an OO gauge model, and creating an extra 4.5mm of clearance within the body shell. At least one of the drawings you are after will be inModel Railway Constructor, early 70s  - Tim Cramer’s J26. Roger Crombleholme has main outline drawings of J18 and G2. 

Hi Yes it is going to take a lot of time to build some thing to this standard, but it will be a major challenge, as it so happen I do have some SSM kits which I brough years ago and again they all need to be built

[Colin R]

Another question but what do you guys think about using code 70 rail is that about the right size for Irish mainline track in the 1950's or should I use code 83? the reason I am asking is that since it will have to be hand built track i would like it to look as realistic as possible, I am undecided as yet but I might use EM standards as opposed to P4.

Edited June 5 by Colin R

[David Holman]

Code 70 better for lightweight track Colin. Nothing wrong with EM standards. Indeed, have used 4mm finescale standards on Fintonagh for 3' gauge, 21mm track in 7mm scale. So 1mm flangeways through the points, standard finescale wheels/flanges and 19.2mm back to backs. Has worked well over the years.

[Colin R]

Thanks David,  Since the period I hope to model is 1950's to 1960's I wasn't to sure if code 70 might be a bit light or if I should use code 83?

Colin

[Horsetan]

On 31/5/2024 at 7:08 PM, jhb171achill said:

A "Woolwich" can be made up from one of the Southern Railway "N" class 2.6.0s - just remove the "blinkers" and drop it into a bucket of dark grey paint! (Or lined green after 1946).

Not quite as simple as that - the overall width over footplate was at least 6 inches wider than the N, as was the width between the frames - once you notice it, you can't "unsee" it.

[Colin R]

1 minute ago, Horsetan said:

Not quite as simple as that - the overall width over footplate was at least 6 inches wider than the N, as was the width between the frames - once you notice it, you can't "unsee" it.

I think you said this else where and yes it might only be 1mm extra each side but that extra bit does help, I think the cab was also wider.

 

[Horsetan]

10 minutes ago, Colin R said:

I think you said this else where and yes it might only be 1mm extra each side but that extra bit does help, I think the cab was also wider.

 

The cab structure itself was not wider. That retained its British width. The same thing happened on the K1a as well.

[David Holman]

In 7mm scale, if you want to do 36.75mm gauge, the instructions say you simply solder the top hat driving wheel bearings back to front, which gives a decent spacing for the drivers, plus a bit of side play which can be taken up by washers if required. Sounds a bit crude and when I made my first J26, I did consider making plasticard overlays for the frames to hide the gap. However, perhaps because we mainly see our models side on, the difference hasn't been noticeable and over many exhibitions, nobody has yet commented on this and all subsequent kits have been built the same way.

 Presume it would work ok in 4mm scale too, but if the bearings stick out too far, it would be a simple matter to file them down a bit.

 Another thought on 21mm gauge is curve radii. On Fintonagh, the points are 900mm radius, which has been fine for the 0-4-2Ts and railcars, but when I built the Barclay 4-6-0T, found this was a bit tight as I'd made the frame spacers the same width. Hence a rebuild may be necessary with narrower spacers to enable a bit more side play.

[Horsetan]

6 hours ago, David Holman said:

In 7mm scale, if you want to do 36.75mm gauge, the instructions say you simply solder the top hat driving wheel bearings back to front, which gives a decent spacing for the drivers, plus a bit of side play which can be taken up by washers if required. Sounds a bit crude and when I made my first J26, I did consider making plasticard overlays for the frames to hide the gap. However, perhaps because we mainly see our models side on, the difference hasn't been noticeable and over many exhibitions, nobody has yet commented on this and all subsequent kits have been built the same way.

 Presume it would work ok in 4mm scale too, but if the bearings stick out too far, it would be a simple matter to file them down a bit....

After all, the LMS did something similar before sending the two Jinties to work on the NCC; they turned the driving wheels centres inside out on the original axles, gaining the necessary clearance and wider gauge that way. An Irish solution for an Irish problem!