NIR Ballast Hoppers - former Spoil Wagons

[Mol_PMB]

I think we all know about the UTA/NIR spoil contract, trains of side discharge hoppers operated by the NCC WT 2-6-4Ts from 1966 to 1970.

70 wagons were built by Cravens, numbered M1 to M70, and during the course of the spoil contract they were actually owned by the Northern Ireland Ministry of Development, rather than by the UTA or NIR.

The wagons took a beating in the late 1960s, with many of them suffering derailments and others being damaged when large boulders were dropped into them. While the spoil contract continued, they were patched up and this led to a host of detail differences between individual wagons.

When the spoil trains finished in May 1970, they were put up for sale, but there were few organisations interested apart from NIR. NIR probably got the cheap, but they weren't really much use for anything other than their intended purpose. 70 was far too many for NIR's needs and so they selected the wagons in better condition for future use, and scrapped the bad ones. Apparently, M62 made it to Inchicore, perhaps as a sales pitch?

NIR used these wagons in two ways:

1. A second (smaller) spoil contract, from October 1974 until August 1975. Spoil was carried from Magheramorne to Cloghan Point, and the trains were diesel-hauled. Initially the DH 0-6-0s were tried but they lacked power and reliability, so this became a duty for the spare Hunslet Bo-Bo. As far as I can tell, the wagons were unmodified from their previous use except that they were lettered NIR and renumbered.

Jonathan Allen has a nice selection of photos of these trains on Flickr, including these examples:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/26136565608

https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/49487458087

This photo is interesting because it clearly shows that the wagons have been renumbered in a series starting with S; the two nearest are S32 and S7. They are also stencilled NIR on the upper part of the hopper:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/49525562432

In a photo, it's usually easy to identify a spoil train as distinct from a ballast train, because a spoil train has all the hoppers the same way round, whereas with a ballast train they're usually mixed.

 

2. Ballast wagons for works trains and track ballasting.

NIR rebuilt at least a dozen spoil wagons to become ballast hoppers. Whilst in principle both a spoil and a ballast hopper are designed to discharge stone, the functionality needed is very different. A spoil hopper needs to quickly dump the whole load well clear of the track. A ballast hopper needs to drop stone at a controlled rate, either in the middle of the track, or on the sleeper ends at either side. Ideally you need to be able to shut the doors on a ballast hopper while it is still partly filled. So it was necessary to carry out some major modifications. These wagons were renumbered into NIR's civil engineers' number scheme with a C prefix.

So far, the numbers I have identified include: C291, C293, C319, C321, C325, C328, C330, C335, C338, C340, C342, C344. It wasn't a continuous number series of spoil hoppers, because C300-C313 were bogie flat wagons (former coach underframes).

Most commonly seen behind a DH 0-6-0 or a Hunslet, the MVs took over these duties later on. These photos from Jonathan Allen on Flickr show how they were used:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/49724280377

https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/49496930316

https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/51561249361

In 1984, the preserved WT No.4 even found itself hauling ballast trains formed of the old spoil wagons, whilst running-in after overhaul!

Some of these hoppers were still in use on ballast trains in the early 1990s (alongside the Walrus bogie hoppers) but were scrapped not long after the new French bogie ballast hoppers were commissioned.

This photo by NIRailfan on Flickr shows some of the variety in the fleet at the end of their life:

 

They're an iconic Irish wagon, which can legitimately be hauled by a WT 2-6-4T, SLNCR 0-6-4T, DH 0-6-0, Hunslet Bo-Bo, MV Bo-Bo, and various NIR railcars. I wouldn't be at all surprised if various GM classes ended up hauling them at times too.

In subsequent posts in this thread I'll try to collate some photos showing the different former spoil wagons used as part of the NIR engineers' fleet, and hopefully make sense of the modifications.

Anyone else is very welcome to add photos or info on the topic, of course!

 

Mol

[Mol_PMB]

Before I get started on the ballast hopper conversions, I'll highlight a couple of variations among the spoil hoppers. Here's a couple of Ernie's photos showing the sloping underside of the hopper of a 'standard' type. Note the regular grid of ribs on the sloping surface, but it doesn't extend onto the triangular corner pieces:

The early hoppers were different - the ribs went onto the triangular corners. In the book 'Steam's Last Challenge' (Cassells) there is a very clear photo on page 5 of wagon M1, newly delivered, with these ribs on the corners.

This photo shows a normal one behind the loco, but the hopper on the edge of the photo has the ribs extending on to the triangular corners. The wagon appears to be M2:

The leading wagon here also has the corner ribs, though we can't read the number. I don't know how many of these there were - maybe just the first few wagons were built like this?

In this photo, the second wagon also has the extra ribs on the triangular corners. But the first wagon shows another common modification - in the middle part of the grid of ribs, extra closely-spaced ribs have been added. In the book 'Steam's Last Challenge' (Cassells) there is a very clear photo on page 57, showing a grubby wagon with this middle section of the hopper underside very clean and freshly painted, with the extra closely-spaced ribs. I'm pretty sure this was a modification or repair, as a consequence of boulders being dropped into the wagons and damaging this part of the hopper.

So, when we come to look at these wagons in their later ballast-carrying guise, we can keep an eye out for these changes. In this photo by Jonathan Allen dated 1989, there are several different permutations:

Nearest is C291, which at first glance is 'standard' but perhaps some of the ribs have been replaced with a heaver section channel.

Next is C335 (we'll see 'Tony Chrisy' again later) which has the early-type arrangement of ribs extending onto the triangular corners, as well as the modification of the closely-spaced ribs in the middle section.

Third is C328, which has the normal type corners, with the modification of the closely-spaced ribs in the middle section.

[Mol_PMB]

Let's now look at the central discharge ballast hopper conversions. As built, the spoil wagons could only discharge to one side, but some ballast needs to go in the 'five-foot' so a group of wagons had a central discharge chute added. Known numbers for these wagons are:

• C291
• C293
• C319
• C321

It's likely that there were more, but not a continuous number series over this range, because C300-C313 were bogie flat wagons (former coach underframes).

This is the clearest photo of the hopper side of C291, from NIRailfan on Flickr. Note the rectangular chute between the wheelsets. There is also a two-handled operating crank on the side of the chute (just above the fine chain that can be seen dangling down).

This side and the end of C291 can also be seen here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/51656948659

Here's the other side, of C293 this time. The original side discharge door remains in place but secured closed. Note that both these wagons retain the chamfered top to the hopper (although it is a bit dented in places)

The second and third wagons in this train are C321 and C319, the other two known wagons of this type. They're facing in opposite directions, and we have photos of both sides of the train thanks to Jonathan Allen. Note that both of these wagons have lost the chamfered top of the hopper, on the former door side:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/49724280377

https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/49724279882

There are subtle differences in the hopper support ribs on all four of these wagons too. None are identical to each other!

 

Tomorrow I'll write about the side discharge ballast conversions, and those that survived in original 'spoil' condition. And then I'll give @leslie10646 some free advertising

Cheers,

Mol

[leslie10646]

I've learnt something - I didn't realise that the Muck wagons were renumbered.

Sorry - I ain't producing new transfers! You get M for Muck plus numbers 01 - 60-ish.

[jhb171achill]

1 hour ago, leslie10646 said:

I've learnt something - I didn't realise that the Muck wagons were renumbered.

 

Nor me - yet the evidence was hiding in plain sight!

[Mol_PMB]

I'll now look at the wagons converted to side-discharge ballast hoppers. Known numbers for these wagons are:

• C325
• C328
• C330
• C335
• C338
• C340
• C342
• C344

These are all higher numbers than the central-discharge version discussed in my last post. It's likely that there were more, and I think these could have been a continuous number series over this range. The 'Courtaulds' wagons were also numbered in the C3xx series by NIR, but I think they had higher numbers.

These side-discharge ballast hoppers had their original side door sealed up, and most of the bottom half cut away. Within this hole, a smaller door was fitted, with a control mechanism comprising a two-handled crank.

Again, NIRailfan's photos on Flickr provide some nice clear views. This is C340 at the end of its life:

Operation of the ballast door would not have satisfied today's health and safety requirements - you would have to walk alongside the moving train to wind the crank handle, and when the door opened it would shoot ballast at your legs! C340 has some extra slots cut into the sloping chute, perhaps to encourage more ballast to fall nearer the rails. I haven't seen these slots on other wagons of this type.

Note that the chamfered hopper top has been entirely removed on this side, along with some of the old door operating mechanism.

This photo from Jonathan Allen shows a rake of four hoppers of this type, all from the door side. They are C344, C328, C325, C342:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/49497154272

And on the same occasion, a useful overhead view of C342:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/49496930316

C338 and C330 appear in this rake:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/49724280377

 

From the hopper side, there were no visible modifications for the side-discharge ballast role. Here's C335, one of the first few wagons built (with the extra ribs on the triangular corners of the hoppers). We know that M1 and M2 were like this, possibly a few more. So this proves that there isn't a direct link between the M series number and the C series number.

This wagon has also recieved the modification with the extra closely-spaced ribs in the middle portion of the hopper underside:

The hopper side of C338 can also be seen fairly clearly here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/49724279882

And this shows the hopper side of C344, C328, C325, C342, not so clearly but it does confirm what their hopper undersides looked like:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/49502241483

 

We'll finish with a photo of C338 behind MV 106 in 1990, not long before these wagons were withdrawn in favour of the new French bogie hoppers:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/51684028742

 

 

Edited November 9 by Mol_PMB
correcting typo

[Mol_PMB]

Now I'll look at the wagons which were not modified as ballast hoppers, but survived into the 1990s.

As we saw in an earlier post, many of the spoil wagons were re-used by NIR on a second spoil contract in the mid-1970s, and these were renumbered with an S prefix; S32 and S7 are visible here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/49525562432

This photo from 33Lima on Flickr is a much later view, from 1992. It shows spoil hopper S31, in the same livery and condition as they were used in the mid-1970. It appears to be full of rubbish and half-grown trees so clearly hasn't been used for some years. At some stage 'RETAIN' has been painted on the solebar, perhaps to save this one when the majority were culled:

But it wasn't a unique survivor, because 33Lima also took this photo on the same occasion. S31 is on the right, but I can't make out the other two numbers:

I don't know if these unmodified wagons were actually used for anything between 1975 and 1992, or whether they were just dumped in a siding.

 

[Galteemore]

I travelled into York Road daily from 83 to 89 and that siding never changed too much ! 

[Mol_PMB]

Now, for those of us who have enthusiastically pre-ordered an IRM Hunslet, we'll need a train to hang behind it, so what better than a rake of spoil or ballast hoppers?

@leslie10646 tells me he is planning a new run of his spoil wagon kits, which you can see here and in his photos linked below:

https://provincialwagons.com/kits-available/

These look like a very good representation of the as-built wagons, and it would be easy to add a few extra ribs on the underside of the hopper to depict the common variants.

I'd be tempted to replace the buffers with something like these: https://www.wizardmodels.ltd/shop/wagons/abwc026a/

I think both variants of the ballast hopper conversions would be pretty easy conversions too, cutting away some parts and adding others from plastikard.

The attraction of the ballast hoppers is that for a realistic train you only need 3 to 5 wagons rather than a dozen or more.

 

Cheers,

Mol

 

[leslie10646]

Ah, the buffers!

Michael (aka "My Man") supplied ear studs, I think - very cheap, roughly right, ready-made!!!!!!!

[Mol_PMB]

Found elsewhere on the forum, here's a photo from @jhb171achill showing C338, one of the side discharge ballast hoppers. Note that this one retains its UT lettering:

[LNERW1]

17 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

Nor me - yet the evidence was hiding in plain sight!

Protect this man at all costs- he knew something JHB didn’t, he is clearly a genius beyond our comprehension!

Edited November 9 by LNERW1

[John-r]

Really enjoying this thread Paul, and very welcome to the forum. The spoil wagons are by far my favourite wagons, I suppose it's because I remember seeing them running when I was much younger. The spoil wagon kit from Leslie is very rewarding to build and will look great behind the forthcoming Hunslets, as well as the Jeeps ( hint, hint lads ), anyway thanks for posting all the photos and information from different sources into one thread . also didn't realise there was a difference between the wagons. Regards John.

[Mol_PMB]

10 minutes ago, John-r said:

Really enjoying this thread Paul, and very welcome to the forum. The spoil wagons are by far my favourite wagons, I suppose it's because I remember seeing them running when I was much younger. The spoil wagon kit from Leslie is very rewarding to build and will look great behind the forthcoming Hunslets, as well as the Jeeps ( hint, hint lads ), anyway thanks for posting all the photos and information from different sources into one thread . also didn't realise there was a difference between the wagons. Regards John.

Many thanks John! I enjoy the research aspect of the hobby. Sometimes, careful study of photos shows things that may not have been recorded officially. By bringing the information into one place and sharing it, often others chip in with more info and photos from different sources and that helps everyone interested.

I'm hoping to build a few of Leslie's spoil wagon kits (as ballast wagons). I quite fancy making a little NIR works train to go behind an IRM Hunslet.

[Colin_McLeod]

Paul this is an excellent thread and your history of the spoil wagons is both fascinating and very informative. 

In their latter years as ballast hoppers they became prone to derailment and this resulted in a number of operational restrictions such as speed and loading.

[jhb171achill]

3 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

Found elsewhere on the forum, here's a photo from @jhb171achill showing C338, one of the side discharge ballast hoppers. Note that this one retains its UT lettering:

Whatever about renumbering, from recollection the vast majority retained “U T” until their demise….

[Mol_PMB]

Agreed, though there were some exceptions. In this photo of the 1975 spoil contract, at least the nearest 4 wagons have NIR painted on the upper hopper side, and the S series number.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/49525562432

The much later photo of some survivors shows that a red panel was painted on the wagons, before adding the NIR and the number.

The upper red panel may have obliterated the UT on some wagons, but that depended on the position of the UT and how the red panel was painted. For example, S31 has ended up with U NIR T:

 

Some of the ballast hopper conversions had a similar arrangement of red panels for the renumbering, like C293 here. This seems to only appear on C291 and C293 which are in a different number series from the rest - perhaps they were converted at a different time?

However, the wagons either side (C338 and C340) have the solebar painted black and the numbers are considerably larger on these too. There was no attempt to obliterate the UT or add NIR on these. The majority of the ballast hopper conversions seem to have been like this.

C319 seems to have had a complete repaint and a number in black figures, with no UT or NIR lettering.

These ballast hoppers certainly give the modeller an opportunity for a short train where every wagon is subtly different from the others.

 

Incidentally, there is a 1968 photo of apparently unmodified spoil hoppers being used for ballast, on page 32 of 'Steam's Last Challenge' (Cassells). I expect this involved a lot of manual shovelling afterwards!

 

[jhb171achill]

In reality, if you take any batch of any type of wagon ever built here (or for here in this 9rare) case), you will find that after not too long a time, at the very least lettering styles, positions of wagons numbers, location of logos or lettering, and even fonts used, can vary significantly. These hoppers were very short-lived by wagon standards - very short-lived indeed, and limited in where they went. They never saw Newry, Omagh or Enniskillen, let alone West Cork. Compare with batches of, say, goods vans, built in 1890 by one of the bigger companies such as the GSW, examples of which were still to be seen bumbling around the place seventy or eighty years later - think of the potential there for "no two alike"; and we're still only talking of livery! Add to that differing wheels over the years, differing buffers, changes to the side strapping, non-standard doors, different ends after some sort of reconstruction, and so on.

Wagons weren't seen as being as "glamorous" as carriages, so often there could be hastily improvised alterations. Going back to liveries, back in the day care would be taken to adhere to the company livery policy if a coach was altered, repainted or rebuilt - but that wasn't seen as being so important with wagons, which were basically workaday Amazon Prime boxes on wheels.

[Mol_PMB]

Absolutely - although tackling the variations in the standard goods vans is too big a job for me to contemplate! However, I am wondering about a similar article on the 'Courtaulds' wagons that survived into NIR usage, in both original and cut-down forms. There's already some good info on various threads here, but it might benefit from being brought together in one place along with a trawl of photos online.

Your photo here gives some interesting evidence on the re-numbering. They were UTA C1 to C300 (probably C = Courtaulds), but the NIR renumbered the cut-down wagons in their Civil Engineers' series also with a C prefix but with numbers above C300. Your photo shows UTA C16 renumbered as NIR C352. Downpatrick had C32 (original) and C378 (cut down). C355 is another cut-down wagon seen in a photo. These seem to follow on from the number series of the spoil wagons converted to ballast hoppers (highest number known is C344).

Meanwhile, this photo from Jonathan Allen on Flickr might be evidence of renumbering of a full-height wagon in a lower number series. It's C37 but the 37 is much bolder and newer than the rest of the lettering:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/27914640039

 

But back on topic for this thread, here's a photo on Flickr by John Law showing centre-discharge C291 just sneaking into a photo of 102. This number would have clashed with a Courtaulds wagon number, which may indicate that this spoil wagon conversion was carried out after the Courtaulds wagon with the same number had been withdrawn or renumbered itself.

 

 

 

[Mol_PMB]

I seem to have overlooked this image from Ernie showing a rake of ballast hoppers in 1983. C291 is the nearest one and the second one may be C293:

 

[jhb171achill]

1 hour ago, Mol_PMB said:

 

To add further to the mix, the day I took this picture at Antrim, there were about half a dozen ballast wagons in that siding. On one at least, there was a metal makers plate, "LMSNCC BUILT 1922". I couldn't get it off. Another wagon had a similar plate which I did take of. These Courtaulds wagons were of bog-standard normal traditional design, so I am assuming they were simply repaints of ordinary (older) traditional opens, no longer needed due to the cessation of goods traffic in the north in 1965? This picture would have been taken about 1977/8/9, I think.

[airfixfan]

Till this day a few spoil wagons lie in a jungle at Magheramorne

[Mol_PMB]

5 minutes ago, airfixfan said:

Till this day a few spoil wagons lie in a jungle at Magheramorne

One would make a fine 'gate guardian' at Cultra!

[Down distant]

Fantastic thread and some weapons-grade research has certainly gone into this. Who knew there was such variety in the fleet? (stupid question - clearly MoI_PMB did!). Intrigued that one or more might lie fossilised in the undergrowth at Magheramorne and if so, the possibility of their extraction should be investigated (I know, who'd pay for that?). Now that the Game of Dragons people have cleared off, is drone flying allowed in that area? Surely a brief reconnaissance flight might shed some light on the matter.

[Mol_PMB]

2 minutes ago, Down distant said:

Fantastic thread and some weapons-grade research has certainly gone into this. Who knew there was such variety in the fleet? (stupid question - clearly MoI_PMB did!). Intrigued that one or more might lie fossilised in the undergrowth at Magheramorne and if so, the possibility of their extraction should be investigated (I know, who'd pay for that?). Now that the Game of Dragons people have cleared off, is drone flying allowed in that area? Surely a brief reconnaissance flight might shed some light on the matter.

I didn't know myself until I started looking at the photos and then went down a rabbit-hole trying to find out more! I do enjoy research as much as building the models. I'm hoping @leslie10646 will produce another run of his kits as I'd like to build a few with the different variations.

[leslie10646]

2 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

I didn't know myself until I started looking at the photos and then went down a rabbit-hole trying to find out more! I do enjoy research as much as building the models. I'm hoping @leslie10646 will produce another run of his kits as I'd like to build a few with the different variations.

They're on order, a finite number so if folk want them, now's the time to put your name on a few.

The plan is to have supply by Bangor next year, but they'll probably arrive long before that.

[Horsetan]

Did any of these spoil wagons make it into preservation?

[Galteemore]

No. Freight stock is a huge gap in Irish preservation generally - for understandable reasons. The RPSI’s raison d’etre was keeping locos and stock fit for main line running and by the time Downpatrick came on stream little was left to be preserved.
The absence of a cattle wagon is a particular deficit. The spoil wagons are of historic interest given their role as the last main line steam consist in these islands. But if anyone has a winch and a brush cutter, Magheramorne may yield up its treasure…..

Edited Tuesday at 23:06 by Galteemore

[Horsetan]

20 minutes ago, Galteemore said:

No. Freight stock is a huge gap in Irish preservation generally - for understandable reasons.…..

Aha. In that case, I'll refrain from signing up for one of Leslie's re-run.

[jhb171achill]

On 18/11/2024 at 6:54 PM, airfixfan said:

Till this day a few spoil wagons lie in a jungle at Magheramorne

Really?

Are there many?

 

[Galteemore]

A mere handful. Two I think - as you know, these things languished for years in various sidings. This few simply got forgotten as the wilderness overtook the quarry sidings. May originally have been shunted to siding ends due to hot boxes or sticky brakes. 

[airfixfan]

About 3 were left abandoned in the former Spoil sidings there.  Have seen a photo somewhere? Anyone else help?

[NIRCLASS80]

On 9/11/2024 at 8:28 AM, Mol_PMB said:

I'll now look at the wagons converted to side-discharge ballast hoppers. Known numbers for these wagons are:

• C325
• C328
• C330
• C335
• C338
• C340
• C342
• C344

These are all higher numbers than the central-discharge version discussed in my last post. It's likely that there were more, and I think these could have been a continuous number series over this range. The 'Courtaulds' wagons were also numbered in the C3xx series by NIR, but I think they had higher numbers.

These side-discharge ballast hoppers had their original side door sealed up, and most of the bottom half cut away. Within this hole, a smaller door was fitted, with a control mechanism comprising a two-handled crank.

Again, NIRailfan's photos on Flickr provide some nice clear views. This is C340 at the end of its life:

Operation of the ballast door would not have satisfied today's health and safety requirements - you would have to walk alongside the moving train to wind the crank handle, and when the door opened it would shoot ballast at your legs! C340 has some extra slots cut into the sloping chute, perhaps to encourage more ballast to fall nearer the rails. I haven't seen these slots on other wagons of this type.

Note that the chamfered hopper top has been entirely removed on this side, along with some of the old door operating mechanism.

This photo from Jonathan Allen shows a rake of four hoppers of this type, all from the door side. They are C344, C328, C325, C342:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/49497154272

And on the same occasion, a useful overhead view of C342:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/49496930316

C338 and C330 appear in this rake:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/49724280377

 

From the hopper side, there were no visible modifications for the side-discharge ballast role. Here's C335, one of the first few wagons built (with the extra ribs on the triangular corners of the hoppers). We know that M1 and M2 were like this, possibly a few more. So this proves that there isn't a direct link between the M series number and the C series number.

This wagon has also recieved the modification with the extra closely-spaced ribs in the middle portion of the hopper underside:

The hopper side of C338 can also be seen fairly clearly here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/49724279882

And this shows the hopper side of C344, C328, C325, C342, not so clearly but it does confirm what their hopper undersides looked like:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/49502241483

 

We'll finish with a photo of C338 behind MV 106 in 1990, not long before these wagons were withdrawn in favour of the new French bogie hoppers:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/51684028742

 

 

Thanks for the photo credits. It was a more interesting railway scene then. 

[Mol_PMB]

2 minutes ago, NIRCLASS80 said:

Thanks for the photo credits. It was a more interesting railway scene then. 

Many thanks for taking the photos and sharing them on Flickr!

[jhb171achill]

On 27/11/2024 at 6:51 PM, NIRCLASS80 said:

Thanks for the photo credits. It was a more interesting railway scene then. 

Way more interesting!