1960s and 1970s Containers in Ireland - Scans from Jane's and data/images from elsewhere too

Mol_PMB · January 2

As yet I haven't found any images of the early CIE refrigerated containers, so I'll have to pass over those for now. Let's look at the Barley hoppers.

There were only 12 of these, introduced about 1970 and I understand they were used for malting barley traffic from Tralee to Guinness in Dublin. Here's an excellent photo by Brian Flannigan on Flickr, dated 1971:

Although there weren't many of them, they were unusual enough to attract photographers. Here's an image from elsewhere on this forum:

Legible numbers on these images include CIE 480, 482, 487, so I would guess that the number series was CIE 480-492.

The IRRS has a photo of some in the yard at Heuston in 1970:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53509415685

Whilst by the 1980s one had been repurposed as part of a mobile concrete mixing train:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53527285451

Mol_PMB · January 2

A couple of posts back I described the CIE insulated containers. From Steve Parker on Flickr, here's another view of an insulated container; it appears to be number 2073 or perhaps 2078:

1978.05.24 wednesday -130Q..171.shunting at Cork

Next, the Tiltainer. Introduced in 1973, these were CIE's first 8'6" high containers and there were 100 of them.

These were open-topped and mostly open-sided, though they had low drop-sides. They also had supports for a sheet to weatherproof the box. This photo from Ernie dated 1974 shows one of them, almost brand new:

This photo from Jonathan Allen on Flickr dated 1975 shows three of them in a train of other CIE containers. Note that the sheets were numbered, probably to match the containers. They appear to be in a CIE 14xx series:

Again from Jonathan Allen on Flickr, here's a closer view of half of one, dated 1975:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/49534056868

I think the later CIE containers with full curtain sides were different from these early 'Tiltainers', although they might have been modified.

Mol_PMB · January 2

Sorry, I missed this excellent photo of a tiltainer from Wrenneire in this thread:

https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/8148-freight-containers-irish-oo-gauge-40ft-or-20-ft/page/3/

This does confirm that the sheet and the container numbers matched, and that they were in a 1400 series.

Mol_PMB · January 2

Now, I mentioned earlier that the CIE container asset listings in the annual reports changed in 1974, becoming less detailed.

The categories were reduced to:

Rail: Covered
Rail: Lancashire Flat
Rail: Other
Road: Covered
Road: Lancashire Flat

There was no split between ISO and pre-ISO, and the 'other' category swept up all the less common types.

The distribution is shown in the graph below, through to the split of CIE in 1987 and a little beyond. The 1973 totals for rail and road are also shown to provide a comparison with the previous graphs:

Between 1973 and 1974 there was negligible change in the totals for road and rail, so it is likely that the 1974 fleet was much the same as for 1973, just categorised differently.

The overall trends from 1974 onwards are:

The road container fleet gradually reduced each year until it reached zero in 1990. It seems unlikely that there were many new containers built for the road fleet in this period.
The rail container fleet increased significantly in the 1974-1979 period, and then gradually declined slightly.
Among the rail containers, the 'covered' category increased by 250% from 487 to a peak of 1703.
Among the rail containers, the 'other' category doubled from 198 to a peak of 420.
'Lancashire Flats' gradually decreased throughout the period.

The only Jane's I have for this period is the 1982 edition. That doesn't have a detailed fleet listing for CIE but states: "A total of 2035 containers and 323 flats are owned" [total 2358]. Comparing with the data in the CIE annual report for 1982, and combining road and rail, the totals are 259 Lancashire Flats and 2148 for everything else [total 2405], which isn't too far off considering that the counts may represent different dates and some of the 'others' may have been types of flat.

So from 1974 onwards we would expect to see large increases in the numbers of CIE containers, and in the variety of types, but the statistical data from the annual reports and from Jane's don't give us any specifics. We'll have to work it out from photos and I haven't started that study yet!

As a taster, this wonderful photo linked from Jonathan Allen on Flickr is dated 1977 and shows a long train of CIE containers:

From the front, we have:

Side door container, 8'6" high (new type)
Side door container, 8'0" high (old type mentioned in previous posts)
Bulk Freight container, 8'0" high (new type)
Side door container, 8'6" high (new type)
Tiltainer, 8'6" high (mentioned in previous posts)
Side door container, 8'0" high (old type mentioned in previous posts)
Side door container, 8'6" high (new type)
Side door container, 8'6" high (new type)
Double Side door container, 8'6" high (new type)
Side door container, 8'6" high (new type)
Side door container, 8'0" high (old type mentioned in previous posts)
Tiltainer, 8'6" high (mentioned in previous posts)
Open-top half-height container (possibly under the umbrella of the 'Lancashire Flat' group)
Side door container, 8'6" high (new type)
Tiltainer, 8'6" high (mentioned in previous posts)
Side door container, 8'6" high (new type)

Mol_PMB · January 2

Now, whilst on the subject of early containers, I would like to talk about the odd frameworks that are seen fitted to some 4-wheel container wagons in the early 1970s. I'd better state up front that this is conjecture based on photos, and I'd welcome any facts to prove or disprove my thoughts.

I'm sure many forum members will be familiar with this image of a B+I liner train, which is included in at least 3 editions of Jane's Freight Containers as well as several other publications from the early 1970s. In this photo, alternate wagons have a strange oversize framework instead of a container:

It's worth noting that there are other photos of B+I and Bell liner trains from the same period that don't have these things, just containers, like these three different trains pictured in the nli archive dated 1971:

https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000307812

https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000308267

https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000307819

Now, here's a link to a very interesting photo by Jonathan Allen on Flickr, which shows a mixed freight heading south from Lisburn around 1972. The third and fourth vehicles are 4-wheel container flats, both carrying early Bell containers. One is normal, and the other has one of the strange frameworks with the container loaded inside it. There is negligible difference between the heights of the containers, suggesting that the framework doesn't have much thickness at floor level under the container:

However, the fact that a container can be loaded inside the framework, apparently with a bit of space around it, shows that the framework must be significantly larger in footprint than the nominal 20'x8' of the wagon floor.

Being longer than the wagon floor probably meant that the couldn't be loaded on consecutive wagons without fouling each other, hence the alternate marshalling of the train in the first photo.

So now we come to this excellent photo uploaded by Wrenneire in this thread https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/8148-freight-containers-irish-oo-gauge-40ft-or-20-ft/page/3/, which shows the frameworks more clearly:

The first thing to note is that the frameworks carry the wagon number; the nearer one is 25904, one of the later examples of the 25436 series. This strongly suggests that they are attached to the wagon, rather than being a 'swapbody' or other intermodal container which would be numbered independently of the wagon (* see below).

It's also interesting that there is something loaded inside the framework, being craned in or out. The load appears to be a 'Lancashire Flat', laden with crates and sheeted over with an orange and black sheet. Very similar to the one on the adjacent road vehicle. So, as with the train at Lisburn, the framework is intended to have a container loaded inside it.

So what were they for? Why not just load the containers directly on the wagons, which would have been perfectly viable?

I suggest that they were a security measure, intended to prevent theft of the containers' contents, or other tampering. The framework would prevent access to any container loaded inside it, because the doors couldn't be opened (whether side or end door). I think they were deliberately made to signficantly overhang the ends of the wagons, so that they would also prevent the end doors of containers on adjacent wagons being opened sufficiently to access the contents. They would also provide some additional protection to sheeted loads on Lancashire Flats (as in Wrenneire's photo) just by making it more difficult to access and handle the loads.

Whatever they were, they seem to have been quite short-lived, perhaps an unsuccessful experiment?

Any more info welcome!

* Note: the CIE swapbodies had their own numbers; the only sensible approach as they were designed to be swapped between wagons, as shown by these photos from Brian Flannigan on Flickr:

Keg swapbody number 340, in 1971:

Pallet swapbody, number only partially visible but ends in 53, in 1971:

Mayner · January 3

On 2/1/2025 at 8:02 AM, Mol_PMB said:

Now, whilst on the subject of early containers, I would like to talk about the odd frameworks that are seen fitted to some 4-wheel container wagons in the early 1970s. I'd better state up front that this is conjecture based on photos, and I'd welcome any facts to prove or disprove my thoughts.

I'm sure many forum members will be familiar with this image of a B+I liner train, which is included in at least 3 editions of Jane's Freight Containers as well as several other publications from the early 1970s. In this photo, alternate wagons have a strange oversize framework instead of a container:

However, the fact that a container can be loaded inside the framework, apparently with a bit of space around it, shows that the framework must be significantly larger in footprint than the nominal 20'x8' of the wagon floor.

Being longer than the wagon floor probably meant that the couldn't be loaded on consecutive wagons without fouling each other, hence the alternate marshalling of the train in the first photo.

So now we come to this excellent photo uploaded by Wrenneire in this thread https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/8148-freight-containers-irish-oo-gauge-40ft-or-20-ft/page/3/, which shows the frameworks more clearly:

The first thing to note is that the frameworks carry the wagon number; the nearer one is 25904, one of the later examples of the 25436 series. This strongly suggests that they are attached to the wagon, rather than being a 'swapbody' or other intermodal container which would be numbered independently of the wagon (* see below).

It's also interesting that there is something loaded inside the framework, being craned in or out. The load appears to be a 'Lancashire Flat', laden with crates and sheeted over with an orange and black sheet. Very similar to the one on the adjacent road vehicle. So, as with the train at Lisburn, the framework is intended to have a container loaded inside it.

So what were they for? Why not just load the containers directly on the wagons, which would have been perfectly viable?

I suggest that they were a security measure, intended to prevent theft of the containers' contents, or other tampering. The framework would prevent access to any container loaded inside it, because the doors couldn't be opened (whether side or end door). I think they were deliberately made to signficantly overhang the ends of the wagons, so that they would also prevent the end doors of containers on adjacent wagons being opened sufficiently to access the contents. They would also provide some additional protection to sheeted loads on Lancashire Flats (as in Wrenneire's photo) just by making it more difficult to access and handle the loads.

Whatever they were, they seem to have been quite short-lived, perhaps an unsuccessful experiment?

Any more info welcome!

Pallet swapbody, number only partially visible but ends in 53, in 1971:

Its possible that the open topped container/framework were intended to safely carry Lancashire Flat swap bodies popular for Irish Sea unit load traffic in the 60s.

B&I Cork-Dublin Liner/Container train was introduced in 1969 following B&I withdrawl of Cork-South Wales freight services, the photo at North Wall indicate that B&I Lancashire flats overhung both the sides and ends of a 20' road trailer.

Its possible that the 'framework' containers were a quick fix for handling existing Lancashire Flats until sufficient ISO flats became available.

The bagged Fertilier swap body appeared during the late 60s and operated on 20 wagon "Back to Back" fertiliser trains until supreceeded by the bogie wagons in the mid-70s. Sometimes both Bogie and Back-to Back fertiliser wagons ran in the same train, I remember an empty fertiliser made up mainly of bogie wagons with a single Back to Back at the tail end passing Dunlaoire at speed in the 70s with a noticeable jolt as the 4wheeler ran through a facing point.

Mol_PMB · January 3

5 minutes ago, Mayner said:

Its possible that the open topped container/framework were intended to safely carry Lancashire Flat swap bodies popular for Irish Sea unit load traffic in the 60s.

B&I Cork-Dublin Liner/Container train was introduced in 1969 following B&I withdrawl of Cork-South Wales freight services, the photo at North Wall indicate that B&I Lancashire flats overhung both the sides and ends of a 20' road trailer.

Its possible that the 'framework' containers were a quick fix for handling existing Lancashire Flats until sufficient ISO flats became available.

The bagged Fertilier swap body appeared during the late 60s and operated on 20 wagon "Back to Back" fertiliser trains until supreceeded by the bogie wagons in the mid-70s. Sometimes both Bogie and Back-to Back fertiliser wagons ran in the same train, I remember an empty fertiliser made up mainly of bogie wagons with a single Back to Back at the tail end passing Dunlaoire at speed in the 70s with a noticeable jolt as the 4wheeler ran through a facing point.

Now that is an excellent observation, John! Because B+I's Lancashire Flats were 24' long:

I should have read all the information I posted a bit more carefully! The fleet list above is from 1971, the same year as these photos with the 'framework'.

Mol_PMB · January 5

This link to a photo from Jonathan Allen on Flickr is one I saw a few months ago and then forgot where I'd seen it. I've found it again so I'll link it here.

It's one of those wonderful transition-era trains with some bogie container flats at the front, 4-wheel container flats in the middle, and a rabble of old goods vans on the back. Jonathan dates this as 1979 (slightly uncertainly). However, the date can't be far off as the bogie flats with Y33 bogies were only introduced in 1978, and the traditional goods vans vanished in the late 1970s.

To me, the item of most interest here is the 1970s Manchester Liners container, broadly of this type as available from C=Rail:

https://shop.c-rail-intermodal.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=72_73&product_id=272

Having studied the Manchester Liners containers in detail, it's always nice to see them in unexpected places!

Edited January 5 by Mol_PMB
comment on date

Mol_PMB · January 9

There are some new additions to the IRRS photo archive which are relevant to this thread. The best one is this lovely shot at Derry Waterside in 1965, showing 3 pre-ISO alloy containers and 3 25201-series fitted flat wagons:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54255476775

Note also the mobile crane, the man standing on top of the container to attach/detach the chains, and the Swilly flatbed truck. Visible in the background are some more flat wagons which appear to be carrying 'Lancashire flats'. A proper intermodal scene!

Two of the containers are the type with both side and end doors, branded 'C.I.E. ROAD RAIL MERCHANDISE SERVICES' while the other one is the older non-insulated type with end doors only, branded 'C.I.E. ROAD FREIGHT SERVICES'

Going back a few years, there is a nice selection of photos of steam locos at Broadstone in 1960/1961. In the background there are dozens of containers of the older wooden type, similar to the BR 'BD' type.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54255303079

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54255495975

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54255299703

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54255300013

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54254175782

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54254175877

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54255299053

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54255071131

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54255303904

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54255072361

There are plenty in a fairly plain light-coloured livery, but some more interesting ones too. Look out for:

GNR FURNITURE REMOVALS with the wording in an attractive arc the full width of the side, and a number in a circle below. Numbers 11 and 12 can be seen in different photos.
Dark-coloured CIE containers with a broad pale diagonal stripe from corner to corner of each side, and a Snail logo. There are at least two (maybe 3) in this livery but with quite different construction - one is diagonally planked without side doors, and the other is horizontally planked with side dooes and what looks like a roller shutter door on the end.
An elliptical demountable tank.

jhb171achill · January 9

1 hour ago, Mol_PMB said:

Dark-coloured CIE containers with a broad pale diagonal stripe from corner to corner of each side, and a Snail logo.

Standard dark CIE green and pale green diagonal.

Mol_PMB · January 12

A nice closeup view of an early alloy Bell container, in 1969:

https://www.kennellyarchive.com/media/462aef0d-846b-4ca5-94ce-a67d7fd63275

Note that this one is lettered BELL FERRY. Others in this early period carried BELL LINE or just BELL.

This could be done quite effectively on Arran's 20x8 flush sided box. I believe the BELL FERRY lettering was in petunia - note that the FERRY is in outline letters. Plenty more of them here seen more distantly:

This link has a rather nice selection of Bell containers too:

https://www.trucknetuk.com/t/looking-for-bell-line-pics/104367/31

I think the boxes on top of the stack on the far right are the same as in the Kennelly Archive picture linked above, which gives us an idea of how the lettering was arranged on the door end.

Early Bell containers seen in colour here in the IRRS archive:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53527508288

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570895910

Mol_PMB · January 12

In this thread, Leslie posted a photo of a container that looks like the Tardis, loaded into a wagon:

Well here's another Tardis-like container, though not quite the same, in a corrugated open wagon:

https://www.kennellyarchive.com/media/730d4686-b00b-442e-940c-8dc46c88082a

This is a BR insul-meat container that has ventured as far as Tralee:

https://www.kennellyarchive.com/media/39c56ad9-d5c2-4fcd-953e-c6112f4cf106

And some miniature Jacobs containers also on a CIE lorry in Tralee:

https://www.kennellyarchive.com/media/c048e730-dd69-4c1c-89d3-a3df79c41335

Then, in the background of a pigeon release, some nice closeups of more BR containers in Tralee:

https://www.kennellyarchive.com/media/af458547-4b99-4cff-8bdf-6f9ab9a75dd6

https://www.kennellyarchive.com/media/4e6c2451-1832-4873-bc2f-b2bf24f391b1

https://www.kennellyarchive.com/media/ba9cf93b-07b7-4dd5-a1fd-1045d8472d57

https://www.kennellyarchive.com/media/01043e76-b155-4e24-865a-9346b038bc33

On the right, I think these are some of CIE road freight division's Livestock containers. I expect these were used as swapbodies rather than containers. as I can imagine that lifting a container full of cows could end badly.

https://www.kennellyarchive.com/media/037e5e44-9cd4-4ffb-a6c4-94a0e9aa5113

Mol_PMB · January 14

Nice view of an Irish Ferryways 20' box here at Loughrea; I don't think there were facilities for lifting containers here so presumably it was unloaded at the end dock?

I'm presently looking at options for modelling an Irish Ferryways container, either 20' as here or 30'.

Mol_PMB · January 17

This is a lovely colour shot of a pre-ISO CIE insulated container in snail livery, on fitted flat wagon 25314; photo dated 1964:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54251527403

Mol_PMB · January 26

A few more container photos to add to the thread.

First from Roger Joanes on Flickr. Just to the left of the loco's smokebox in 1964 is a pre-ISO open box container, on a 25201 series 20' flat wagon:

Askeaton. 186 & railtour for Foynes. 7.6.64

Possibly something similar in bright red livery on an 'LB' flat in the background of this IRRS photo also dated 1964:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54251291181

This is a slightly later design of open container, ISO-compatible and suitable for palletised traffic. It seems to be in black livery with a roundel on the end, and carried on a 25436-series wagon:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511479228

From ML125R on Flickr, some interesting photos around North Wall around a decade later.

This one is undated but probably late 1970s. A selection of CIE open-top coal containers on the left, and perhaps a CIE 40' insulated container in grubby white just to the right of the loco:

Among the CIE and Bell containers, there are several Ellerman Lines boxes in this late 1970s view:

This image is dated 1984 but looks a few years earlier to me. A fine array of CIE containers of many types and sizes, as well as a lot of CTI, and a couple of MOL.

A couple of the 10' bulk glucose container here:

From Colm O'Callaghan on Flickr, some later images of ISO containers including some interesting ones.

CIE curtain-sided boxes on the left, and note the pair of Uniload 10' on an air-braked 60' flat just behind the loco:

Two photos of the open-topped coal containers; there was a variety of types of these, the older ones being 8' high and the later ones 8'6". Some may have been conversions from normal dry boxes:

Super shot of an acrylonitrile tank freshly painted in IR livery:

One of the less common grey 10' containers just behind the loco here:

From the IRRS archive, one of the early ISO CIE insulated containers:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570887180

Mol_PMB · January 26

Having shown some of the glucose containers in my previous post, here are two of the IRRS archive images showing them in the original white livery:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53527507088

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511556515

jhb171achill · January 27

On 14/1/2025 at 8:39 AM, Mol_PMB said:

Nice view of an Irish Ferryways 20' box here at Loughrea; I don't think there were facilities for lifting containers here so presumably it was unloaded at the end dock?

I'm presently looking at options for modelling an Irish Ferryways container, either 20' as here or 30'.

Correct, there was never a container crane here. They used containers coming into Loughrea just like ordinary goods vans - they just opened the doors and unloaded them, and sent them away empty.

Weshty · January 27

There's the makings of a good reference book in all those fine photos, great work done in collating it.

Mol_PMB · Thursday at 13:07

A few more nice Irish container photos found whilst browsing t'interweb...

From the RPSI website, a whole row of pre-ISO side door containers on the 'Derry fitted'; they are lettered 'C.I.E. ROAD/RAIL MERCHANDISE SERVICES' and seem to be numbered in the 800s. Most are mounted on 25436-series flats but there's at least one 25201 series flat amongst them:

From CIE's own website, a lovely image of early containers dated 1974 but I think it's earlier than that - more like 1970-71. Lots of alloy Bell boxes, both ribbed and flush-sided.

I think the blindingly white stack on the right is new CIE insulated containers. Also visible is a CTI and a TRANSLODE (these turned up in Manchester too in the 1960s).

Also to be seen centre-stage are the frameworks fitted to some 25436-series flat wagons, and on the left a couple of small demountable tanks:

Back to the RPSI website, and a couple of 1972 images:

In these we can see a variety of 20x8x8 boxes including CIE side-door and insulated, Irish Ferryways, Manchester Liners, Freightliner, and several variants of B+I:

Another RPSI image in rather lurid colour, dated 1976, including a variety of early CIE, B+I, Bell and a Duckhams tank:

In the IRRS archive, another photo of the days when Bell containers were alloy rather than blue and petunia:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53526429592

Dialling the date back to 1969, some pre-ISO CIE containers in the wagon works yard at Limerick, with some livery variations:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511509608

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53510446947

Whilst further north at Donegall Quay in 1960, some Belfast Steamship Co containers on the right:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53508809449

Weshty · Friday at 09:43

That photo is striking. Pin-sharp and great colour. It could have been taken today only for the COMPLETE lack of uniforms and PPE. The lads look like like they're doing a bit of work in between saving the hay and heading off for a sneaky one.

Horsetan · Friday at 10:45

On 27/1/2025 at 10:55 AM, Weshty said:

There's the makings of a good reference book in all those fine photos, great work done in collating it.

Could there possibly be a kit or two on this theme from SSM in future?

skinner75 · Friday at 11:46

That Duckhams tank looks like it'd fit into a Tippex livery set no bother!

Weshty · Friday at 11:52

1 hour ago, Horsetan said:

Could there possibly be a kit or two on this theme from SSM in future?

Definitely a new transfer set or two. Just need the interest!

Mol_PMB · Friday at 12:20

15 minutes ago, Weshty said:

Definitely a new transfer set or two. Just need the interest!

Physically, the Duckhams container is similar to the CIE tank containers, as also used on your Ammonia barrier wagon kit. It would be nice if these were available separately...

I'm developing some transfer artwork for some of the early containers. I was going to get them made as a one-off by Precision Decals, but if others are interested then I'm happy to discuss options.

For many of the early containers, it's hard to find a suitable moulding to use as a basis. Which is why I've been modifying some of Arran's 20x8x8 boxes.

However, the smooth-sided Bell 20x8x8 is directly suitable for Arran's moulding. A nice closeup view here in the Kennelly archive, the same type is seen on the wagons behind the track gang a couple of posts above.

Kennelly Archive | Two Men With A Truck

Work in progress on the transfer artwork:

And I've got artwork for the CIE Insulated and Bulk Freight variants prepared too. I'm working on some early B+I, both blue stripe and red stripe.

For something more 3-dimensional, a model of one of the CIE pre-ISO containers would be lovely. Anyone fancy a trip to Dromod with a tape measure?

Weshty · Friday at 12:42

There is one of these up in Howth as well! Delapitated but extant.

Mol_PMB · Friday at 12:47

1 minute ago, Weshty said:

There is one of these up in Howth as well! Delapitated but extant.

There were 3 or 4 different variants - the chances are that the Howth one is a different type, so we could have two...?

The type at Dromod has vertical channel ribs which might be a challenge to represent in 4mm scale.

Mol_PMB · Saturday at 18:57

Whilst on my obsessive search for container photos, I have stumbled across a resemblance that might make an easy model.

Perhaps something for @leslie10646 and Dapol / @Robert Shrives to look at?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53500993248

This is a Dapol product, which has been produced in the past as special editions for certain model shops. Looks pretty close to me (the container, not the wagon, but we have IRM LB flats to put them on, or open wagons to put them in)

Also visible in the background of this image from Ernie:

img478 Broadstone JT 91 1960-10-23 GT Robinson

The CIE horizontally-planked ones were less common than the alloy-sheeted ones, but they aren't available RTR.

Mol_PMB · 2025-02-02T12:03:23Z

On 31/1/2025 at 11:46 AM, skinner75 said:

That Duckhams tank looks like it'd fit into a Tippex livery set no bother!

The colours on that photo are rather lurid. I think the Duckhams tanks were actually yellow with a blue band and tippex

Here's another Duckhams tank, in a photo by Jonathan Allen on Flickr, at Adelaide. They would make a nice and distinctive model, could potentially be based on the SSM 20' tank, or the 3D printed one made by @Past-Avenue

jhb171achill · 2025-02-02T13:10:50Z

On 2/1/2025 at 10:36 AM, Mol_PMB said:

MOST interesting what’s behind the engine - the tin van will be newspaper traffic between Connolly and Portadown / Belfast - but behind that - an NCC “brown van”!!

These were regular enough carrying newspapers and mailbags between Great Victoria Street and Portadown (I think the picture is near Moira, where the main line crosses the Lagan Navigation Canal), but far more often on the back of railcars, rarely in a goods train.

As an aside, I’m unaware of any reports, let alone evidence, of any brown vans ever seen south of Portadown. While Warrenpoint was still operating, it was all GNR (and CIE) vans to be seen in those parts.

Edited 17 hours ago by jhb171achill

Mol_PMB · 2025-02-02T13:16:02Z

1 minute ago, jhb171achill said:

MOST interesting what’s behind the engine - the tin van will be newspaper traffic between Connolly and Portadown / Belfast - but behind that - an NCC “brown van”!!

These were regular enough carrying newspapers and mailbags between Great Victoria Street and Portadown (I think the picture is near Moira, where the main line crosses the Lagan Navigation Canal), but far more often on the back of railcars, rarely in a goods train.

As an aside, I’m unaware of any reports, let alone evidence, of any brown vans south of Portadown.

I do love these little challenges you set - now I can spend hours more poring over photos of Dundalk, Drogheda, and Connolly looking for brown vans!

Incidentally there's another photo of this train by Jonathan Allen on Flickr:

spudfan · 2025-02-02T14:54:56Z

I remember the horses, the tractors then the Scammels. It was not unusual to see a horse drawn unit pulled up outside a premises, nosebag on the drive unit (the horse) while the driver was in with a parcel...not a scanner in sight. Don't think the unit had a tracking device either and I never saw on fitted with a tachograph either. Was not unusual to see one of the delivery units stopped on the quays while the drive unit slaked it's thirst at one of the drinking troughs on the edge of the footpath. Sometimes you would see a horse drawn unit pulled up outside the metal latrine that used to be there too while the driver used the facilities. Very quiet units with the rubber tyres but the drive unit could be a tad noisey. Marrowbone lane was cobbled at the time and the sound of the drive unit's feet clip clop reverberating off the nearby walls on both sides was a sound to behold. Funnily enough the horse drawn units were very advanced for the time. People marvel at the voice controlled ALEXA thing (don't have one) but these horse drawn units were also voice controlled. The horses knew basic commands and were easily controlled. High spirited units had blinkers to keep them calm.

I mentioned before when I moved from Cork Street flats (very modern in the day. They were new when we moved in) to Drimnagh our furniture was brought on a horse drawn unit. This was exCIE, don't know about the horse. Yeah, fond memories.

I ,

Mol_PMB · 2025-02-02T15:19:25Z

22 minutes ago, spudfan said:

I remember the horses, the tractors then the Scammels. It was not unusual to see a horse drawn unit pulled up outside a premises, nosebag on the drive unit (the horse) while the driver was in with a parcel...not a scanner in sight. Don't think the unit had a tracking device either and I never saw on fitted with a tachograph either. Was not unusual to see one of the delivery units stopped on the quays while the drive unit slaked it's thirst at one of the drinking troughs on the edge of the footpath. Sometimes you would see a horse drawn unit pulled up outside the metal latrine that used to be there too while the driver used the facilities. Very quiet units with the rubber tyres but the drive unit could be a tad noisey. Marrowbone lane was cobbled at the time and the sound of the drive unit's feet clip clop reverberating off the nearby walls on both sides was a sound to behold. Funnily enough the horse drawn units were very advanced for the time. People marvel at the voice controlled ALEXA thing (don't have one) but these horse drawn units were also voice controlled. The horses knew basic commands and were easily controlled. High spirited units had blinkers to keep them calm.

I mentioned before when I moved from Cork Street flats (very modern in the day. They were new when we moved in) to Drimnagh our furniture was brought on a horse drawn unit. This was exCIE, don't know about the horse. Yeah, fond memories.

I ,

Super, many thanks for the memories! All we need now is a minature DCC horse. Accurascale/IRM's next project...

spudfan · 2025-02-02T15:34:19Z

Ex CIE carts were also used by coal men delivering coal.

Mol_PMB · 2025-02-02T18:22:54Z

There was a lot of variety among the pre-ISO containers. As well as the CIE ones, there were a lot of British Rail ones which travelled by rail in Ireland, and of course those from the GNR and private companies such as Lyons Tea.

Some types of BR containers have been made either RTR or as kits, and may be suitable for use on models representing Ireland. Some may also be suitable to be repainted in CIE livery - though it must be noted that most CIE containers had sides made of the same alloy-faced ply used on the H vans, whereas most BR containers were planked.

Let's have a look at the smaller type 'A' containers, which seem to have remained in use until the late 1960s.

CIE inherited some planked ones from the GNR which were very similar to the BR type made by Bachmann.

These IRRS photos show the GNR/CIE ones very well:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511437118

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511582084

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511437123

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511613489

They can be compared to the Bachmann models:

CIE also had a ply-bodied type, seen here in reality:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54257002703

This is very similar to the kit produced by Cambrian:

CIE also had a type with prominent X-bracing, seen here in reality:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511703975

This was very similar to a batch of LMS containers, which are available from Unit Models. However, the LMS ones were planked and the CIE was ply. Nevertheless the planking is much less obvious than the bracing and these are nicely distinctive:

Of course, the BR versions of these are equally valid in Ireland in the same period. Most BR containers were shades of red/bauxite, whereas the CIE ones were grey/aluminium or in some cases green, and I think GNR ones were Oxford blue, so they can be identified by colour.

Three BR 'A' containers (like the Bachmann model) can be seen in a block train of containers at Rosslare in the early 1960s. Note how the short containers are all at the end of a wagon, not in the middle.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53449386736/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511318943/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53508492151/

And a load of them in Tralee in 1966:

https://www.kennellyarchive.com/media/af458547-4b99-4cff-8bdf-6f9ab9a75dd6

Some at Kingsbridge, photo from Ernie: