Midland Irish Peat feldbahn in H0f

[Sean]

Having barely finished the last layout, I have decided to start planning another one, and I fancied a bit of narrow gauge this time around!

On my researchings, I started to lean more and more towards 2 foot gauge than 3 and when i seen some h0f models I was sold on the idea. The feldbahn or field railway is the european version of a small industrial railway, so to speak, but there were also some large systems build around factories etc!

 

There are a couple of different locations I would like to model in this scale however midland irish peat stands out for me for its quirkiness of being more of a "feldbahn" than a fully fledged railway, there is also surprisingly a lot of variation in scenery in the small runs between different bogs.

There was a small yard full of wagons which was utilised to move the harvested peat into lorries for processing at the plant further away and even a locomotive works with a small run of track not connected to the main system for testing locomotives.

 

I am aiming to build on a 1 foot wide base board however the length is yet to be decided and the track plan will be utilitarian just like it was in real life. being able to build into such a compact footprint was a big driving force in chosing the scale over something more conventional like 009.

 

The rolling stock situation is pretty straight forward, everything seemed to be built onto very generic looking 4 wheel trolleys, these are available from busch in 2 different styles, both of which i have seen evidence of at MIP and it should be enjoyable to scratch build all the little bodies onto these.there is also a 3d printable version of these generic 4 wagons available.

there were some cool looking PW and fuel trains running also!

 

There seemed to be upto around 10 locomotives on site of varying makes and models and the history of most are traceable from the factory and have now made it into preservation in the UK and Europe. I should be able to recreate at least a few of them to a reasonable standard!

 

I have ordered a starter set along with a couple of wagons and a static locomotive to get me going with the first peat train!

 

one VITAL area in which I have struggled is trackwork, Z gauge track will work but unsurprisingly looks all wrong  and should really be confined to fiddle yards. Busch set track is very expensive,  and technomodell flextrack can only be found in stock at one seller but its overpriced and so is the shipping so I would be looking at 70 euro delivered for 2 lenghts of flexitrack!

 

some heroes online have uploaded STL files for 3d printing of flexible h0f track and I have been learning how to modify these to accept code 75 rail and am exploring ways to print them. tomorrow we visit the library!

[David Holman]

I think Roy Link used to produce etched track fittings for temporary railways like this, but it may have been 7mm scale.

[DJ Dangerous]

Another inteteresting and challenging one, @Sean!

Think that @LNERW1 is also working on a peat bog style railway. You could butt heads for some brain-storming.

[Galteemore]

Great project to dig into, and am sure you won’t get bogged down by it  

[LNERW1]

17 minutes ago, DJ Dangerous said:

Another inteteresting and challenging one, @Sean!

Think that @LNERW1 is also working on a peat bog style railway. You could butt heads for some brain-storming.

Ah yeah I’ve some interest in BnM from living near a bog railway and volunteering at Stradbally with loads of BnM stuff. I’ve to get a new railway room sorted but when thats done I’ll probably be starting on a model of Coolnamona main line transfer sidings. I also have a baseboard I’ve wanted to use for a BnM project but that’s very much long term.

Anyway thats not particularly relevant to this thread specifically. I’ll be watching this with interest. If you want to have a look at some BnM stuff up close at the SWR, drop me a PM. The running season starts up again in Easter.

[Sean]

did not expect to update so soon, but there has been a development!

Sent 3d files off to my library at around 10 am and was told it would be a 2-3 day wait for the bits to come back. I was pleasantly surprised to get an email to come and pick them up at half 4!

 

The schwellenband design did not work well at all for me, the enlarged rail chairs were too flimsy and broke off in my pocket as i was walking around.

the tim1mw however was a different story.

 

the tim1mw however was a different story.

half of the sleepers were not attatched and this will have to be fixed in the next revisions, I only got track panel that was 3 sleepers long!

 

I was under the impression that code 75 meant code 75 and scale would play no part in the rail profile. I was wrong about this and all of the H0/00 code 75 that I do have is actually way too big.

so I picked up a random piece of straight n gauge track, removed the rails, offered it up and fit snugly into the chairs!

 

perhaps this was a measurement fluke, but it has proven to me that this track system works and will be workable going forward, which is great because there are 3d. printable points as well  

since i cant use the code 75 rail I have now I will order the proper z scale rail which is designed to work with this system and other h0f systems for interconnect ability.

600mm x 6 comes to a grand total of 15 euro which beats any other option by multiples!

[Sean]

 

Whilst this is not Ireland it seems to capture the atmosphere of the "torfbahn" very well and you will see a lot of the same quirky operating practices such as drivers jumping off the train to do somthing as its going along or even long double headed trains that are being controlled by a single driver who is continually jumping from cab to cab to adjust throttles in order to  keep the locos pulling together!

 

When railway operations ceased at rathowen 3 out of the 5 remaining locos were made by diema who feature very heavily in my plans!

[Sean]

Back to the library today and asked for 5 pieces of the unmodified track design as I have now ordered the correct rail for this design.

 

Went in and they had 10 pieces as they had tried 5 on different settings for me.

 

Some slight issues with the chairs on these that were not present the last day, but also they were printed by another person who may have changed the settings. 

Still it was good to be able to experiment with these. It is pretty impressive just how flexible this material is and its not a million miles away from the shiny abs plastic that flextrack is actually made out of.

 

I will go back in with todays and saturdays prints which had great chairs and show them the issue,  I think they should be able to get it right for me then :)

 

I wont have the rails for another couple of days so i can trick around with this until then.

[Flying Snail]

Very interesting project - is Midland Irish Peat 2' or 3'? I ask as you mentioned your interest in 2' at the start  - I know the BnM and ESB railways were 3' so I'm curious if there were 2' Irish bog railways too?

[Mol_PMB]

23 minutes ago, Flying Snail said:

Very interesting project - is Midland Irish Peat 2' or 3'? I ask as you mentioned your interest in 2' at the start  - I know the BnM and ESB railways were 3' so I'm curious if there were 2' Irish bog railways too?

There were 2' gauge Irish bog railways, including some operated by BnM. 

[Rob R]

Have you got a link for the .stl files?

I have a passing interest in 3d printing track (5ft 3in) and it would be interesting to see their take on it.

Thanks

Rob

[Mayner]

1 hour ago, Flying Snail said:

Very interesting project - is Midland Irish Peat 2' or 3'? I ask as you mentioned your interest in 2' at the start  - I know the BnM and ESB railways were 3' so I'm curious if there were 2' Irish bog railways too?

Midland Irish Peat (Klasmann and Deilmann) had a (possibly 2) 60cm (2') Gauge systems near Rathowen which used Continental (persumably German equipment) BNM had at least two 2' possibly 60cm systems which seems to have mainly used UK supplied equipment (Ruston & Hornsby locos & Hudson wagons) 

The BNM Kilberry (Co Kildare) Moss Peat works was originally served by a 2' gauge gauge system, converted to 3' gauge during the 1980s, BNM Glenties system (used to transport sod peat from bog to a sales yard near Glenties) may have remained 2' gauge until closure.

Apart from Guiness and peat systems 60cm 2' gauge was also used on several industrial/forestryand quarry lines incl. a short lived line in the mid 20s linking a Barytes min on Ben Bulbin with Mullaghmore worked by a Simplex petrol loco, steam worked Glenfarne forestry line, steam worked quarry line on Achill Island, possibly reservior and hydo electric projects and 

Another case of the old Irish modelling dilemma neither HOe (2'6" gauge) or OO9 (2'3" gauge) are correct for modelling 60cm or 2' gauge railways.

I guess HOf with Busch Feldbahn equipment offers an alternative to HOe or OO9 for modelling the Irish 2' gauge tempting!

[Flying Snail]

2' was more extensive than I thought, thanks gents!

[Mol_PMB]

50 minutes ago, Mayner said:

Midland Irish Peat (Klasmann and Deilmann) had a (possibly 2) 60cm (2') Gauge systems near Rathowen which used Continental (persumably German equipment) BNM had at least two 2' possibly 60cm systems which seems to have mainly used UK supplied equipment (Ruston & Hornsby locos & Hudson wagons) 

The BNM Kilberry (Co Kildare) Moss Peat works was originally served by a 2' gauge gauge system, converted to 3' gauge during the 1980s, BNM Glenties system (used to transport sod peat from bog to a sales yard near Glenties) may have remained 2' gauge until closure.

Apart from Guiness and peat systems 60cm 2' gauge was also used on several industrial/forestryand quarry lines incl. a short lived line in the mid 20s linking a Barytes min on Ben Bulbin with Mullaghmore worked by a Simplex petrol loco, steam worked Glenfarne forestry line, steam worked quarry line on Achill Island, possibly reservior and hydo electric projects and 

Another case of the old Irish modelling dilemma neither HOe (2'6" gauge) or OO9 (2'3" gauge) are correct for modelling 60cm or 2' gauge railways.

I guess HOf with Busch Feldbahn equipment offers an alternative to HOe or OO9 for modelling the Irish 2' gauge tempting!

Another 2' gauge peat bog system was the Marconi railway at Clifden, which was unusual in being steam-worked by a very smart little 0-4-0 saddle tank.

Although originally built to help with construction of the radio transmitting station, the railway's later use was transporting sod peat from the bog to the power station that generated current for the radio transmitter. I've never seen a model of the line, but often wondered about making one!

[Galteemore]

7 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

Another 2' gauge peat bog system was the Marconi railway at Clifden, which was unusual in being steam-worked by a very smart little 0-4-0 saddle tank.

Although originally built to help with construction of the radio transmitting station, the railway's later use was transporting sod peat from the bog to the power station that generated current for the radio transmitter. I've never seen a model of the line, but often wondered about making one!

It also played a role in transporting Alcock and Brown after their pioneering Atlantic flight - fascinating little draisine! 

Edited 23 hours ago by Galteemore

[Tullygrainey]

4 hours ago, Galteemore said:

It also played a role in transporting Alcock and Brown after their pioneering Atlantic flight - fascinating little draisine! 

I know they survived the flight. Did they survive that thing?

[Sean]

8 hours ago, Flying Snail said:

Very interesting project - is Midland Irish Peat 2' or 3'? I ask as you mentioned your interest in 2' at the start  - I know the BnM and ESB railways were 3' so I'm curious if there were 2' Irish bog railways too?

Ive stumbled on a couple of 2' bogs in my research. Most of the original rolling stock from MIP was sourced second hand. some of which even came from other 2' irish systems

No.7 was built in 1983 for Tirconnell Peat in Pettigo Co. Donegal and moved to Rathowen in 1988, it was sold for preservation in 2009 to the UK.

 

No.2 Ransomes & Rapier 20HP 4wDM (built 1938, works no. 84): Originally delivered new to Murphy Bros Ltd, a Dublin-based construction contractor, it later moved to Shamrock Machine Turf Co. in Shane Valley near Edenderry (acquired around 1963) and then to Midland Irish Peat at Rathowen bog in County Westmeath by 1987.

It was fitted with an Ailsa Craig diesel engine and accompanied by peat wagons when moved to the UK for preservation in 2011.

Motor Rail 4wDM (built 1938, works no. 7304): Acquired from Erin Peat Products Ltd in Birr, County Offaly, which had operated a 2ft gauge peat railway since around 1959 before closing.

The running number was not known however I am led to believe that it was re numbered to 3 sometime and any photos online featuring loco 3 are incorrectly captioned as Alan Keef Works number 9 which was originally number 3 but sold around 1993 meaning any post 1993 photos of loco 3 cannot be AK9

 

Others included;

• Two F.C. Hibberd 'Planet' 4wDM locomotives (build details unknown): Also acquired from Erin Peat Products Ltd in Birr.
• Ruston & Hornsby 4wDM locomotive (build details unknown): Acquired from Erin Peat Products Ltd in Birr.

 

5 hours ago, Mayner said:

Midland Irish Peat (Klasmann and Deilmann) had a (possibly 2) 60cm (2') Gauge systems near Rathowen which used Continental (persumably German equipment) BNM had at least two 2' possibly 60cm systems which seems to have mainly used UK supplied equipment (Ruston & Hornsby locos & Hudson wagons) 

The BNM Kilberry (Co Kildare) Moss Peat works was originally served by a 2' gauge gauge system, converted to 3' gauge during the 1980s, BNM Glenties system (used to transport sod peat from bog to a sales yard near Glenties) may have remained 2' gauge until closure.

Apart from Guiness and peat systems 60cm 2' gauge was also used on several industrial/forestryand quarry lines incl. a short lived line in the mid 20s linking a Barytes min on Ben Bulbin with Mullaghmore worked by a Simplex petrol loco, steam worked Glenfarne forestry line, steam worked quarry line on Achill Island, possibly reservior and hydo electric projects and 

Another case of the old Irish modelling dilemma neither HOe (2'6" gauge) or OO9 (2'3" gauge) are correct for modelling 60cm or 2' gauge railways.

I guess HOf with Busch Feldbahn equipment offers an alternative to HOe or OO9 for modelling the Irish 2' gauge tempting!

Theres also 006.5 which would represent 18 inch gauge.

4 hours ago, Flying Snail said:

2' was more extensive than I thought, thanks gents!

There were a lot of smaller gauges in industrial use all throughout the country but they are not so well documented. I hit gold by asking grok about some of these systems as it was able to look into resources I did not even know existed online.

 

https://www.irsociety.co.uk/Archives/13/bord_na_mona.htm

 

I believe this was a first jumping off point for me.

[Mol_PMB]

Those locos and stock are very characterful! I can see the appeal of modelling MIP and look forward to watching your progress.

Are you going to try and replicate the terrible track quality? Could be a challenge keeping things on those rails in such a small scale. 

[Sean]

8 hours ago, Rob R said:

Have you got a link for the .stl files?

I have a passing interest in 3d printing track (5ft 3in) and it would be interesting to see their take on it.

Thanks

Rob

https://www.printables.com/model/678039-h0f-track-65mm-spacing-code-80-rail

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:6683822

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5028536

 

There are a couple of approaches, I am using the tim1mw variant because the chairs seem to be the easiest to reproduce on a filament type 3d printer.

[Sean]

11 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

Those locos and stock are very characterful! I can see the appeal of modelling MIP and look forward to watching your progress.

Are you going to try and replicate the terrible track quality? Could be a challenge keeping things on those rails in such a small scale. 

it has actually crossed my mind but derailments annoy me way more than they should 

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5028562

 

these wheels kind of give the impression of running on bog track in the example video when compared to the torfbahn video i posted earlier, so anything is possible 

[Mol_PMB]

I have once seen a layout where the builder very carefully made all the stock with suspension or compensation capable of coping with really terrible track quality, and then deliberately built the track to be prototypically awful. It did work, derailments were avoided, and the locos and wagons rocked and rolled over the uneven weedy track in a very convincing way. In its own way, it was a remarkable piece of modelling and really stood out at an exhibition. But I think you would struggle to achieve that in the small scale you're working with - not enough space for the suspension and the rolling stock wouldn't have enough inertia to rock and roll convincingly. Mass and inertia don't scale very well. 

MIP has enough character of its own in the locos, wagons and scenery!

[Rob R]

Thank you Sean.

I will have a play when I get the printer back up and running.

Rob

Edited 14 hours ago by Rob R
Spelling

[Sean]

7 minutes ago, Rob R said:

Thank you Sean.

I will have a play when I get the printer back up and running.

Rob

Let me know how you get on, I am very much learning as I go,