Hard Standing

[Davenport]

Hi all,

 

Just wondering how do you guys build hard standing concrete effect  for a engine shed?

Tks

[Mol_PMB]

I've got a fair bit to do as well, representing tracks set in concrete. I'd also welcome ideas.

My current plan is to use 1.5mm card just below the level of the rail tops, paint it pale grey and dust on talcum powder to give a bit of texture.

Other ideas welcome!

[David Holman]

Think that sounds about right. Even in 7mm concrete has zero texture, so card and talc should work well. The difficult part with concrete is the colour. Humbrol concrete just isn't right, but then the shade varies according to age, weathering, dry or wet.

 Tullygrainy's probably the master. Let's wait to read what he suggests!

[Tullygrainey]

 I wish I had the definitive answer to that one! The challenge, as David says, is that there's no 'concrete' colour as such since age, texture and weathering affect the colour and appearance of concrete in widely varying degrees, not to mention the ingredients used to make the stuff in the first place.

My experiences in wrestling with this suggest to me that a single flat colour won't look convincing. A mixture of shades in the finished surface will look much better. I generally use cheap artists' acrylics from tubes in three colours - Mars Black, Titanium White and Raw Umber. Mixed in different proportions, these can produce an infinite variety of suitable tones. The process is distinctly trial and error. I just prod away until it looks right to my eye. Thin washes allow different colours to show through in random places on the final surface. I think we're agreed too that talc can add a bit of texture. Some dry brushing using the raw colours and sometimes some yellow/green to hint at moss or algae also contributes to the overall look. 

For largish areas of concrete, remember that it will likely have been laid in bays, with lines of tar between the sections. For modelling this, I scribe lines into the card surface and run black paint into these. Cracks can be modelled by drawing lines with a pencil.

I'll leave the last word to the Grand Master, Gordon Gravett in his book Modelling Grassland and Landscape Detailing (Wild Swan, 2013). "For concrete slabs, I use Humbrol matt enamels: No.110 Natural Wood, No. 64 Light Grey, No. 34 White and just a touch of No. 81 Pale Yellow in varying proportions".

 

Edited 21 hours ago by Tullygrainey
typo

[Georgeconna]

14 hours ago, Davenport said:

Hi all,

 

Just wondering how do you guys build hard standing concrete effect  for a engine shed?

Tks

I tried clay and it failed. Air dry stuff, All cracked up. Went carboard in the end. 

had this pop up on my feed recently. Loads of others.

 

 

 

Edited 21 hours ago by Georgeconna

[murrayec]

Air dry clay needs to be done on sealed surfaces in small sections to avoid cracking, like laying the real thing!

Card is much easier and it can be painted with varying shades of grey, again it can be marked/embossed with pencil lead to imitate construction lines. See link to the Greystones layout timber yard below;-

Eoin

[Broithe]

6 hours ago, Tullygrainey said:

 there's no 'concrete' colour as such

Concrete, like tarmac, is never the same colour as another piece.

They used to say, of the US colour TV system, NTSC* - Never The Same Colour...

In real life, patching hardstanding will never merge in, even over considerable time. If you ever need to hide a body under some, put it in from the side, without disturbing the visible surface.


* OK - color, in the example given...

[Horsetan]

1 hour ago, Broithe said:

..... If you ever need to hide a body under some, put it in from the side, without disturbing the visible surface.......

*makes notes for future reference *

[ttc0169]

21 hours ago, Davenport said:

Hi all,

 

Just wondering how do you guys build hard standing concrete effect  for a engine shed?

Tks

I used artists grey card-suitably weathered,worked well for me. 
 

[Darius43]

I have used 2mm thick card painted with BR rail grey enamel.  The concrete inside the real shed is likely to have a non dust/non slip coating so no need for a textured finish.  
Outside the slab surface may be tamped in real life for grip and frost protection so perhaps apply the talc to external hardstandings with slab joints scribed in with a sharp knife.  

Cheers

Darius

Edited 14 hours ago by Darius43

[Mayner]

I was responsible for concrete paving on housing and commercial projects down the years!

Concrete paving practice changed significantly down the years

(a) originally concrete paving/hardstanding was laid in bays up to 6-8' square 6'' mixed and placed by hand. Concrete bays on roads/footpaths and large areas tended to be cast in alternate bays to counteract shrinkage. Rebates (gen 1'X1") were formed at joints in road paving and filled with bitumen to prevent water seeping through to the sub-base and damaging the road.

(b) Bay width increased to a max of approx 12' from the 1920s onwards with longitudinal joints every 15-20', rebates again formed in joints in roads and filled with bitumen, typical Dublin Corporation road of the 20s-80s era. Roads had a tamped finish (improve traction/skid resistance), with a smooth (bullnosed) trowel finish at joint. In Ireland and the UK footpaths and paved areas where people were walking received a brush finish, joints barely noticeable in the smaller scales. The length of bay that could be physically be placed by a (4 man) gang in one day increased significantly 60'+ plus with the arrival of readymix concrete during the 1960s

During the 90s we received a particular "brushed finish" spec for the floors in the Masonite Plant to overcome issues with wood dust and the adhesives used.

(c) Significant change in practice occurred form the late 80s onwards with the widespread use of the power screed and the machine cutting of joints post placing. 

What does this mean to the modeller?  Square/retangular bays up to 8' in bays placed up to the 1920s. Max 12' wide bays with longitudinal joints every 15-20' (bitumen filled joints in roads) concrete placed 20s-80s, barely noticeable joints concrete placed late 80s onwards. Relatively smooth non-slip finish in paved areas where people were walking/working, tamped finish on roadways.

The main advantage over concrete over tarmac or stone/gravel paving is its duarbility & restistance to oils/chemicals and can be power washed

Photos from Inchacore revealed some interesting points.

2'X2' paving slabs used on running shed apron during 80s/90s. 

Concrete paving with non-slip (oil/chemical resistant) floor paint finish inside Diesel No1 Mid 90s

Deisel No2 /Ramps area tidied up with (fine) stone fill to rail level for Inchacore 150. Interestingly paving slabs apparrently in use of walking routes through Ramps area.

Before the clean up! late 70s ballast/fines in in Ramps area filled rail level to allow access for maintence and repair work. 

Whenever visited the 'surface" in the Ramps area was very slippy with oil grease and water!

It basically looks like anything goes in a loco yard from a concrete slab, to paving slabs or ballast brought up to rail level

I seem to use 3-4mm mdf coated with fine dark grey scatter on the paved areas (roads and loading banks) of my 1950 ish rural Irish layout.

 

[Mol_PMB]

Many thanks John, that’s very comprehensive and helpful. I shall joint my concrete panels accordingly. 
 

Going off at a tangent, do you know what that little tank wagon 254A carried?  

[David Holman]

Colour wise, everything from pale grey onwards, it seems - all down to what is going on, on site.

Gordon Gravett's new layout in in this month's Continental Modeller by the way - and debuts at Manchester next month. Back to French metre gauge, very simple but (as you'd expect) very, very good.

[Mol_PMB]

1 minute ago, David Holman said:

Colour wise, everything from pale grey onwards, it seems - all down to what is going on, on site.

Gordon Gravett's new layout in in this month's Continental Modeller by the way - and debuts at Manchester next month. Back to French metre gauge, very simple but (as you'd expect) very, very good.

I am very much looking forward to the Manchester show. I’ll keep an eye out for it.