Worsley Works retiring and closing down. Irish items apparrently out of stock.

[Mayner]

Contacted Alan the other day to order for some CIE Laminates and C&L Narrow Gauge items.

Alan apologised that he 'had not got any" and is retiring and closing down.

 

[flange lubricator]

I think I got the last two Laminates off him about a month ago they were not complete just the sides and ends I will have to produce my own under frames for them . 
I did ask if anyone was taking over but he has had  no offers yet. 
 

 

[Galteemore]

The next issue of ‘New Irish Lines’ will have a short piece on what I think was his very last Irish SG etch. Shame to see him close down 

Edited Tuesday at 17:18 by Galteemore

[commerlad]

Right then, The statement below is as I know it.

From someone who has been trying to get in touch with Allen to try to discuss purchase, only to be put off in time wise (But not from wanting to purchase) by Allen

 

1 of the members of the North West 009 group "Stan" has been holding a "Fire sale" of 4mm narrow gauge etches, (seems they got everything in a bulk deal off of Allen). 

They also put out this statement on NGRM back in February.

"The Merseyside & SWest Lancs NG Group have been is discussions with Allen Doherty (Worsley Works) and this week have taken over his range of 4mm Narrow Gauge Kits, plus some other items.

There are no plans at present, to produce new items.

Our aim, is to help bring back into the hobby, some of the modelling skills which have been effected by the rtr models.

Once we have sorted all the stock, these kits will be offered at very low prices, so if someone makes a mess of the kit, they will not be crying in their soup.

Any interested parties, can contact me on here or send an e-mail to  johnwilliams509@btinternet.com"

Note they do not say that they have bought the rights or the artwork. All the Irish Narrow Gauge items have been taken and pretty much most everything else has been sold.

The 3mm society has had all the 3mm items from stock  (This includes chassis units that are otherwise used for 4mm scale 00n3) 

I was lead at the time from a statement put out to members to believe that they also purchased the artwork for the same but also have no plans at present to produce any new items. I now have doubts that they purchased the artwork.

Also having talked to the person currently in charge of said stock while at York show, They also got other items not 3mm, not labeled/identified. they plan on bringing this to the East Mids members  day later this year for me to look through.

 

Allen is still having some new items etched if the order is worthwhile, Last thing I had from him was on 2nd April (Just under 5 weeks ago) Delivered direct to me from Grainge & Hodder the etching company, As far as I know this was his last Irish etch "15mm scale West Clare Bogie Diesel" unless someone else has had some since. I ordered this the beginning of February.

 

I have plans to try phoning again later this week. But have heard from more than 1 source that his cognitive abilities are starting to decline.

 

If anyone else has any facts (facts only please not rumours / 2nd hand posts ) to add to the above please let me know as I would like to try to get this sorted before to long.

Edited Wednesday at 06:10 by commerlad

[Mol_PMB]

Thanks for the info. It's sad to hear about Allen's health. About a year ago I ordered a G class kit and he delivered it to my door himself rather than post it (I'm only about 5 miles away from Worsley). He seemed fine at the time. 

[Mayner]

On 6/5/2026 at 4:39 AM, commerlad said:

They also put out this statement on NGRM back in February.

"The Merseyside & SWest Lancs NG Group have been is discussions with Allen Doherty (Worsley Works) and this week have taken over his range of 4mm Narrow Gauge Kits, plus some other items.

Any interested parties, can contact me on here or send an e-mail to  johnwilliams509@btinternet.com"

Note they do not say that they have bought the rights or the artwork. All the Irish Narrow Gauge items have been taken and pretty much most everything else has been sold.

The 3mm society has had all the 3mm items from stock  (This includes chassis units that are otherwise used for 4mm scale 00n3) 

Allen is still having some new items etched if the order is worthwhile, Last thing I had from him was on 2nd April (Just under 5 weeks ago) Delivered direct to me from Grainge & Hodder the etching company, As far as I know this was his last Irish etch "15mm scale West Clare Bogie Diesel" unless someone else has had some since. I ordered this the beginning of February.

If anyone else has any facts (facts only please not rumours / 2nd hand posts ) to add to the above please let me know as I would like to try to get this sorted before to long.

Provided groups/ individuals come to an agreement to take over Worsley Works items, the simplest & cheapest way to resume production would be to continue using Grange & Hodder to carry out the etching as they are likely to control the photo tooling used to carry out the actual etching.

It only becomes necessary to access the "artwork" if there is a problem with the existing tool or intend to use a different etching company. Basically the "artwork" is prepared by the person that designed the original model, 'phototool" prepared by the etching company.

Etching companies have a 'set up' or tooling cost for producing a phototool for a particular model and a separate production cost for each sheet etched. Not sure about Grange and Hodder but some etching companies charge a flat rate for each sheet etched & do one off/small orders.

It seems a pity that no Irish Model Clubs or Historical Groups appear to have come forward to safeguard WorsleyWorks Irish Broad gauge items which appear particularly significant to modellers of Ulster's railways with Worsley Works collection of sctratchbuilders parts for GN, NCC/UTA locos and coaching stock and distinctive railcars.

[commerlad]

3 hours ago, Mayner said:

Provided groups/ individuals come to an agreement to take over Worsley Works items, the simplest & cheapest way to resume production would be to continue using Grange & Hodder to carry out the etching as they are likely to control the photo tooling used to carry out the actual etching.

It only becomes necessary to access the "artwork" if there is a problem with the existing tool or intend to use a different etching company. Basically the "artwork" is prepared by the person that designed the original model, 'phototool" prepared by the etching company.

Etching companies have a 'set up' or tooling cost for producing a phototool for a particular model and a separate production cost for each sheet etched. Not sure about Grange and Hodder but some etching companies charge a flat rate for each sheet etched & do one off/small orders.

It seems a pity that no Irish Model Clubs or Historical Groups appear to have come forward to safeguard WorsleyWorks Irish Broad gauge items which appear particularly significant to modellers of Ulster's railways with Worsley Works collection of sctratchbuilders parts for GN, NCC/UTA locos and coaching stock and distinctive railcars.

OK I have said "Artwork" when i do mean "Phototool" which is drawn up from the Artwork but semantics really.

And I agree that continuing to use Grainge and Hodder would be the easiest option so accessing the actual artwork is not entirely necessary, But purchasing the "Rights" to use the artwork is required else any future production is in effect copyright theft. Similar to the sales of overproduced Murphy Models items being sold from China.

I am considering/trying to purchase said "Rights" from Allen,  Primarily the 3 foot Narrow Gauge Range (YES Irish, I.O.M. & Southwold in the various Scales remaining 4mm, 7mm, and 15mm. (3mm? and 5.5mm having already been taken by the 3mm Society and Neville Kent, NDrive) Depending on the cost of the above I could consider more eg, The Irish Broad Gauge but I have not got as much Idea about the range and amount purchased. A quick look shows about 20 - 35 Scratch Aid Kits over each of 5 Scales. (I am primarily a modeller of 3 Foot Gauge) 

That is why I stated that the North West Group although having a "Fire Sale" on premade etches have not conclusively stated that they have bought the "Artwork and Rights" Also my own doubts about the 3mm Society (I need to speak to Peter Leach about this)

The immediate statement that they have no plans to produce further etches would make it pointless purchasing the said artwork. (Other than to store for possible future use if they feel that enough demand existed) Maybe a case of a certain number of Pre Paid orders leading to a run of a particular quantity of a certain model or short run batches only to top up some time after when certain lines have "Sold Out". (Much like the business model of certain RTR manufacturers now).

 

 

[Maitland]

It would be tragic if the artwork were lost. WW has been a major resource for years, and a project to digitise Allen's work (crowdfund it)? would be a gift to the future.

[Mayner]

It goes without saying that someone would first have to acquire/purchase the re-production rights before starting production. I would expect that Grange and Hodder would require Allen's permission to use his tooling/artwork for another customer.

In my experience in as a manufacturer, demand for Irish outline etched kits and scratchbuilders parts is quite limited. 

In general there has been sufficient demand to produce a single run of a loco/coach kit or coach side overlays, (10-12), in general once an item sells out there is insufficient demand to produce a repeat run of 10-12 items. All sales are pre-orders.

Pete McParlin had a similar experience with disappointing sales when he introduced an extensive range of Backwoods Miniatures 4mm Irish 3' gauge locos and stock during the 1990s and later shifted to British and American outline locos and stock. Peter told me that he only sold one Clogher Valley 0-4-2T locomotive. 

In recent years I have found it worthwhile to supply etched parts direct from the etchers to individual customers (mainly in the UK) the company I use has no minimum order quantity and charges a flat rate per sheet regardless of quantity. 

 

 

 

[Galteemore]

Asking completely without knowledge but wondering if there is scope for brass laser cutting to replace simple etching ? A firm here in GB can cut sheet down to 20thou, which is a little thick (normally 15-18 thou is used) but it’s getting close. 

[Mol_PMB]

While laser-cutting can engrave, it can't provide smooth areas of half-thickness etch that we make much use of in etched kits. 

Hobby desktop laser cutters like my Creality Falcon 22W machine won't cut even the thinnest metal, they are the wrong wavelength and not sufficiently powerful. You would need a professional machine.

In the past when I had access to a water jet cutter I managed to get that to cut 10 thou brass quite neatly. It could also cut 2" thick steel on the same machine! But again, no equivalent of the half-etch.

In my view, etching is the right technology. It can be done at home with a hobby setup though I prefer to pay a professional to do it.

[commerlad]

6 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

While laser-cutting can engrave, it can't provide smooth areas of half-thickness etch that we make much use of in etched kits. 

Hobby desktop laser cutters like my Creality Falcon 22W machine won't cut even the thinnest metal, they are the wrong wavelength and not sufficiently powerful. You would need a professional machine.

In the past when I had access to a water jet cutter I managed to get that to cut 10 thou brass quite neatly. It could also cut 2" thick steel on the same machine! But again, no equivalent of the half-etch.

In my view, etching is the right technology. It can be done at home with a hobby setup though I prefer to pay a professional to do it.

I fully agree that although hobby etching can be done at home I would not bother.

Spent time in a Gold Plating Shop and regularly used stuff that is now on the Internationally "Banned" list. eg. TriChloroTriFlouroEtano while at work so do not see the point of turning the house into a Chemical Lab now I have "Retired"

 

Edited 17 hours ago by commerlad

[Paul 34F]

With regard to acquiring the Artwork from Allen.  The drawings for the photo tools were in a digital format over 20 years ago.

He produced the digital diagrams for the CDRJC Class 5 in 15mm scale from my original hand drawn effort.

Paul

[commerlad]

53 minutes ago, Paul 34F said:

With regard to acquiring the Artwork from Allen.  The drawings for the photo tools were in a digital format over 20 years ago.

He produced the digital diagrams for the CDRJC Class 5 in 15mm scale from my original hand drawn effort.

Paul

 

I don't really care what format it is in, Just as long as it is usable by the etching company.

It's the legal bit of "Rights" and being able to have an etching company use them.

[Colonel]

The Big question appears to be: How Much?

How much would it cost to buy the rights to use the art work

How much time would be required to manage the art work - liaising with potential customers, the etchers, running a website and so on

How much time would be required to manage sales

 Always had the impression that Allen was a one man band, while you don't have to be a genius to work out nobody gets rich from running niche operations like this.

 Am guessing that with WW already starting to fragment, the best we can hope for is someone to take on the Irish elements - if only to ensure the artwork isn't simply lost. Trouble is who? Maybe if the cost of acquisition was known, it might tempt a group or individuals to put their hands up?

 I think there are other factors to consider as well. In particular, going forwards, how popular will etched kits be compared to  the ever increasing use of 3D printing? From what I see on this forum, I think the latter could well be overtaking the former and as home printers get ever more affordable and the files themselves ever more accessible, will etched kits simply start to disappear for lack of interest? There is cost too - the new Finny7 kit for an 0 gauge LNER B1 looks superb (and the cab detail is jaw dropping), but it will set you back £1000 and is by no means the only one that has crossed this rubicon. Remember, this is a kit, not a finished model.

 Ideally, whoever takes on WW - and indeed other cherished brands as their owners give up, need to be young enough to ensure their survival going forwards - otherwise I can see scratch and kit building disappearing, simply for want of the components to do so.

 Incidentally, how easy might it be to convert 2D drawings for etches into 3D ones for printing? Is it an AI thing???

[Angus]

I had quite a few emails conversations with Allen before he shut up shop. I had a large outstanding order with him that he was struggling to fill due to issues with the photo tool (it wasn't any of the Irish stock that was affected).

I finished up doing a deal with him to secure his remaining 2mm fine scale LMS kits and sides in lieu of what I actually ordered.

The email exchange was a bit hit and miss so I came to the conclusion his health wasn't great. This was just speculation on my part though

One thing people miss when talking about etching is the quantity required to make an order viable. The whole sheet needs to be produced which can contain several items.

This means if you want an individual coach you have to order the whole sheet (which could be duplicates, something appropriate that may be of use or something else entirely)

So the purchaser either needs to stump up for multiple items they don't necessarily want or the supplier has to carry stock that might not get sold.

Not a simple as it first appears.

[commerlad]

2 hours ago, Colonel said:

The Big question appears to be: How Much?

How much would it cost to buy the rights to use the art work

How much time would be required to manage the art work - liaising with potential customers, the etchers, running a website and so on

How much time would be required to manage sales

 Always had the impression that Allen was a one man band, while you don't have to be a genius to work out nobody gets rich from running niche operations like this.

 Am guessing that with WW already starting to fragment, the best we can hope for is someone to take on the Irish elements - if only to ensure the artwork isn't simply lost. Trouble is who? Maybe if the cost of acquisition was known, it might tempt a group or individuals to put their hands up?

 I think there are other factors to consider as well. In particular, going forwards, how popular will etched kits be compared to  the ever increasing use of 3D printing? From what I see on this forum, I think the latter could well be overtaking the former and as home printers get ever more affordable and the files themselves ever more accessible, will etched kits simply start to disappear for lack of interest? There is cost too - the new Finny7 kit for an 0 gauge LNER B1 looks superb (and the cab detail is jaw dropping), but it will set you back £1000 and is by no means the only one that has crossed this rubicon. Remember, this is a kit, not a finished model.

 Ideally, whoever takes on WW - and indeed other cherished brands as their owners give up, need to be young enough to ensure their survival going forwards - otherwise I can see scratch and kit building disappearing, simply for want of the components to do so.

 Incidentally, how easy might it be to convert 2D drawings for etches into 3D ones for printing? Is it an AI thing???

 

2 hours ago, Angus said:

I had quite a few emails conversations with Allen before he shut up shop. I had a large outstanding order with him that he was struggling to fill due to issues with the photo tool (it wasn't any of the Irish stock that was affected).

I finished up doing a deal with him to secure his remaining 2mm fine scale LMS kits and sides in lieu of what I actually ordered.

The email exchange was a bit hit and miss so I came to the conclusion his health wasn't great. This was just speculation on my part though

One thing people miss when talking about etching is the quantity required to make an order viable. The whole sheet needs to be produced which can contain several items.

This means if you want an individual coach you have to order the whole sheet (which could be duplicates, something appropriate that may be of use or something else entirely)

So the purchaser either needs to stump up for multiple items they don't necessarily want or the supplier has to carry stock that might not get sold.

Not a simple as it first appears.

Point 1 Purchasing Cost, That is what I am trying to get an answer to. Allen has on more than 1 occasion put me off "Till later"

Point 2 Time to run Operation, Depends how many orders come in.

Point 3 Viability i.e. Other Component availability, Lack of wheels is becoming a big factor here, Without which what's the point of a Loco kit. This is the main sticking factor Neville at NDrive has with the old Backwoods Kits. I know I have helped him out in sorting the mess that was the castings to go with each.

Point 4  As Angus said Artwork is for a sheet and knowing what is on with what is a problem here. (Back to my initial post on this thread and the "Accessing" remark) if only to find out. The last kit I received was 2 full sheets directly from Grainge and Hodder for a West Clare Walker Bogie Diesel in 15mm, all the bits I want are there, but also some I do not (And have no idea what they are).

Point 5  The rise of "The Machines", 3D printing, Laser Cutters and Silhouette Cutters are gaining traction, lowering costs and may end Brass kits for good "If it is classed as good". There is no easy way to take "artwork for an Etch" and turn it into "Artwork" for a different format, Each is unique, In it's form and nature. Basically for each style you start again from known measurements and design to suit your machine. 

 

What other posters to this thread seem to be missing is that I am serious in wanting to do this. At present I have reasonable funding to do it. (Depending on Point 1) and still feel willing to give it a go. The actual "Getting a Price" is the sticking point here.

 

 

[Rob R]

Fingers crossed it all comes to fruition.