Basic knowledge?

[Chevron]

As a total new member to this forum and to model trains i still have so much to learn.

so much so that its the basics iv to grasp first

 

HO and OO gauge use the same track but everything else is modeled to a slightly different scale?

I see "Rack" used when describing a trains length. is this a common thing as in a rack is "example 7" carriage's long or something?

what does 0-4-0 and similar mean.?

 

Are all track points 10-20 euro each? or am i just in the expensive shops lol?

 

I know most people into model trains appear to "Have" the money to buy a €150+ loco but is there much room for the poor like me in this hobby?

 

How obtainable is it to get cheap used track/rolling stock?

 

 

Im not looking for true fine detail, i'm happy as long as it doesn't look like "toy".

 

Any info is great.

I LOVE the post by "glenderg" in tips and tricks sticky.

No that's my kind of modeling.. using household items

 

 

Cheers

Chevron

Edited September 12, 2013 by Chevron

[jhb171achill]

Chevron, you'll get all the answers here. OO and HO are the same track gauge, but OO are 4mm to the foot scale. Don't ask me how these things ended up being a metric amount against an imperial one.... HO is smaller SCALE to accommodate American prototypes and you needn't worry about it unless you model USA / Canada. A "rake" of carriages, rather than a "rack", refers to a number of vehicles, e.g. a 6 coach rake, or a 4 car rake.

 

An 0.4.0 is a steam loco with zero leading wheels, four driving wheels and zero trailing wheels. A 2.6.4 has a pair of leading (small) wheels, six drivers, and four trailing ones. The RPSIs 461 is a 2.6.0 - look at it and you'll see.

 

Good luck with your modelling. Probably best to start with a basic set and get the feel of it, then you can develop it.

[Chevron]

Yea i have a basic set, "Hornby Caledonian Belle" with track pack A and B with one or 2 more track pieces.

 

Went with that set as it was the cheapest i could find. wanted cheap due to money and to make sure its something i want to getting to with out spending too much for something i wont stick with.

 

At the moment im starting as 4 foot by 4 foot base to get a feel for things. i know its damn near impossible to have a enjoyable layout at that size in OO but track pieces and space prevent any bigger.

 

Plus i know i will be moving in the next year or 2 so not going to go mad on a layout.

debating on trying a modular system but im not too versed in the hobby to go ahead with that so il stick with my 4x4 to get the hang of things and for testing scenes and building making.

 

I have a better layout that i want to do but that will take time to get all the points i need and the correct radius curves.

 

This is the layout i want to get on the 4x4 http://www.freetrackplans.com/403-Port-Rush.php

 

But all in good time. hopefully by Christmas il have all the track parts i need and a better baseboard constructed for putting away and taking out when needed.

 

Could ramble on and on but time to stop for this reply lol

Edited September 12, 2013 by Chevron

[Dave]

Hi Chevron, I started with Hornby track, but it can be a false economy. I have scrapped it all in favour of Peco track. Hattons are very good on price for points and track, http://www.ehattons.com

I manufacture modular baseboards at very competitive prices, a 4' x 4' baseboard with 4 legs works out at €160, you can also add baseboards to it as your layout grows.

[Chevron]

OK so the flying Scotsman is a 4-6-0 and don't count the wheels on the coal cart?

Would i be better off getting flexi track now or keep with set track until i have a larger more permanent setup?

As im not going DCC yet i have to contend with a single loco on the train at a time. is there a guide on wiring/powering any extra siding i may have or how it should be done.

Say for example i had 2 ovals rad 3 and rad 2 with a single point joining them.

If i have the powered rail on one oval once the point is switch there will be no power to one of the rails.

so is it a simple case of wiring the 2 track together with wire and solder? or a powered extension coupler?

[Chevron]

HI Dave i saw your post after i posted mine.

 

I have seen some of your work and wow some pretty impressive baseboards. So neat and tidy and truly designed by a modeller.

 

You have me thinking now about how im going to proceed on the board now.

Edited September 12, 2013 by Chevron

[Riversuir226]

If your on Facebook theres a few buy and sell sites mainly based in the UK were you can pick up pieces on the cheap. There are often bargains on donedeal and other sites like it. If you want some of the more expensive locos most of the shops offer savings clubs I know I use this to get the stuff I want to get. Either way welcome to the site and happy modelling

[Chevron]

Thanks RiverSuir i did not know about these saving clubs as that would be of interest to me.

[Dave]

Drop out and see me at the next show, I'm in Abbeyleix this Sunday at a model railway exhibition and in Bray on the 22nd.

The beauty about modular baseboards they are engineered to very tight tolerances with a very flat level top.

[Chevron]

Wont make the laois one but will try make the Bray one. make a family trip out of it with the young ones

[Dave]

Wont make the laois one but will try make the Bray one. make a family trip out of it with the young ones

 

No worries

[Chevron]

How do people deal with uncoupling?

Do people just use a uncoupler ramp?

Hardly doing it all manually.. right?

 

But if doing that doesn't that limit were you can uncouple?

[Warbonnet]

As a total new member to this forum and to model trains i still have so much to learn.

so much so that its the basics iv to grasp first

 

HO and OO gauge use the same track but everything else is modeled to a slightly different scale?

I see "Rack" used when describing a trains length. is this a common thing as in a rack is "example 7" carriage's long or something?

what does 0-4-0 and similar mean.?

 

Are all track points 10-20 euro each? or am i just in the expensive shops lol?

 

I know most people into model trains appear to "Have" the money to buy a €150+ loco but is there much room for the poor like me in this hobby?

 

How obtainable is it to get cheap used track/rolling stock?

 

 

Im not looking for true fine detail, i'm happy as long as it doesn't look like "toy".

 

Any info is great.

I LOVE the post by "glenderg" in tips and tricks sticky.

No that's my kind of modeling.. using household items

 

 

Cheers

Chevron

 

Hi Chevron welcome to the site and the hobby! I see you have some answers already but I will help out as best I can.

 

OO Gauge - 1/76 scale and HO - 1/87 scale. OO gauge runs on HO track and is only really used in British and Irish Outline modellers. It goes way back when due to smaller prototype loading gauge in Britain compared to their European and American counterparts manufacturers like Hornby needed extra space to cram in their motors but with the wide availability of HO track they made a compromise. All is compatible though.

 

Rake is as JHB explained is the number of coaches in a train.

 

Flying Scotsman is a 4-6-2, four in the pony truck at the front, 6 driving wheels and two under the cab. You're correct when you say you dont count tender wheels.

 

Hattons will do good prices for track as Dave pointed out. Second hand loco and rolling stock bargains are out there to be had, and if you dont mind doing a bit of work to them to bring them up then they can compete with anything new. There's a swapmeet in the Stillorgan Park Hotel this Sunday which should have plenty of stock for good prices. Also worth contacting site member WrennEire as he has loads of second hand stock to sell. Ebay is there too and we have a for sale section on this site.

 

One thing I wouldnt but 2nd hand though is track. It would be real false economy so buy new to give yourself the best chance of reliable running. Track gets hammered down and/or glue. It could turn out to be a right mess.

 

Anyway, hope the above info is of use! And don't be afraid to ask any questions no matter how simplistic they might seem. We're all here to help!

[Chevron]

Thanks for the response warbonnet a nice informative one.

 

Thanks for the clarification on OO locos running on HO track

4-6-2 explanation was great.

Used track - never thought about being hammered and glued down.

 

How easy/hard is it for a non artistic fellow to weather.

I just find store bought shiny looking loco and wagons is just not for me, i like the used weathered look.

[WRENNEIRE]

I will be at the Bray show also, I will loads of cheap track and rolling stock

If there is anything else you are looking for, drop me a line

[Riversuir226]

For weathering theres George Norman of wonderful weathering, top notch work everytime he can be contacted either on this site his profile name is Georgeconna or via facebook the link is in the services section of this site. Anthony is another top weatherer and is also on this site.

[Warbonnet]

Thanks for the response warbonnet a nice informative one.

 

Thanks for the clarification on OO locos running on HO track

4-6-2 explanation was great.

Used track - never thought about being hammered and glued down.

 

How easy/hard is it for a non artistic fellow to weather.

I just find store bought shiny looking loco and wagons is just not for me, i like the used weathered look.

 

There's a few places and people on here who offer weathering; Seamus Grahams, Marks Models, Anthony and GeorgeConna to name but a few. All very talented people. WrennEire might be able to hook you up too.

 

Check out YouTube for tutorials if you want to have a go yourself. Some great guides for weathering and other all other aspects of the hobby!

[kevrail]

Hi Chevron Welcome to the forum. You will find lots of information here. I buy a lot of my things off ebay & use hattons as a guide price. You will also be able to make things yourself from virtually nothing too save money. It is amazing what you can do with cocktail sticks, coffee stirrers (lollypop type) & a good printer. There is plenty of info on this site and ask questions you will be grand. Enjoy:-bd

[Chevron]

When Dealing with Shunting puzzles How or what is the best way for uncoupling with ease?

[33lima]

Hi Chevron and welcome!

 

I'm no expert in layouts but your choice of track plan for 4'x4' layout looks like a good one. There's a decent amount of siding space, and the potential to run your train out of one station, round the circuit, then into the second, then back again, with a second one sitting isolated in the 'passing loop' (the section of track on the far side of the platform in the top right-hand station), ready to move out when its turn comes. small means there's a good chance of getting it finished and up to whatever standard you're aiming for, in a shorter time.

 

Don't worry a bit about modelling on a budget, or about buying what you can, when you can, secondhand at shows, swapmeets or on eBay. The older models you often find there are generally cheaper, can run nearly as well as the fancy modern ones, and while they will not be as detailed or accurate, they also have fewer bits to come loose and disappear, when handled or run.

 

Equally if you're wanting to run some local stock, go for it! No need to feel thwarted, or stuck with British Railways/LMS etc etc, 'cos the budget doesn't extend to rakes of Cravens coaches, brass kits or ready-to-run Irish diesels. If you can make and finish a plastic kit to a standard you're happy with, you can also modify cheap models to provide 'near enough' replicas and thus have local trains running on your layout.

 

For example:

 

1. Get a second-hand Tri-ang 2- or 3-car Diesel Multiple Unit (DMU, or 'railcar'), like this one:

 

http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt278/pangolin44/May_13/R7_C.jpg

 

Cut away the two pillars either side of the front, driver's windows, then glue one of the pillars back, in right in the middle. You now have a close approximation of a CIE or Great Northern AEC railcar, which you can paint 'black and tan', or in Great Northern blue and cream (or even in UTA or NIR colours, as the latter inherited some of the GNR(I)'s AEC railcars). Second-hand Tri-ang 9" coaches make good trailers and are cheaper that the purpose-made and rarer Tri-ang DMU centre cars. Yes it's not really accurate but it'll look the part. While the Silver Fox Models AEC railcar is much better and finished to an extremely high standard, it is still a repainted British Railways railcar.

 

A 3-car railcar set composed of models like these (which are somewhat shorter than real scale length) would fit quite well onto your planned layout and would make a great 'entry-level' Irish diesel train. A lot of more experienced modellers started off like this and there's no reason you shouldn't.

 

2. For a steam loco, get an second-hand Airfix Class 4F 0-6-0 tender loco, like this one:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_12_2011/post-6680-0-05803300-1324299887.jpg

 

You can just repaint it black to lose the markings, or if feeling a little more ambitious, sand down the 'square' corners to the firebox (eitehr side, ahead of the cab) to match the profile of the cylindrical boiler (put some model filler into the corners from the inside, if there is a risk of sanding through).

 

You now have a pretty close approximation of the GNR(I)'s big goods loco of the SG Class, like this:

 

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7248/6851548240_27998e8ec7_m.jpg'>http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7248/6851548240_27998e8ec7_m.jpg

 

With either model, you can improve the resemblance by a bit more surgery or the use of some easily cut and glued plasticard.

 

Cheap, second-hand Tri-ang-Hornby Mk 2 coaches can be repainted in CIE, IR or NIR colours. Other coaches like Hornby or Airfix 'Stanniers' (the Airfix ones are much the better models) can be repainted to serve as earlier coaches, as used by CIE, GNR(I) or UTA. Graham Farish 'suburban' coaches and Mainline or Replica Railways LMS 'panelled' coaches are other models available second-hand, which can be repainted to provide decent look-alikes for Irish coaches.

 

3. There are a few diesel trains you may be able to get cheap, that don't look to bad if repainted into local colours, especially if you are prepared to do a little surgery:

 

- the Tri-ang-Hornby 'Hymek' repainted maroon or sky blue bears a reasonable resemblance to the NIR Hunslet (a long time ago it was actually released in CIE 'black and tan' with CIE roundels!). Glueing a rectangle of plasticard over the centre pillar between the cab front windows and fitting a short ring cut from the likes of a pen barrel towards the top like the large light carried there, would improve the resemblance further.

 

- the likes of a Lima Class 33, 26 or 27 could serve as a CIE C/201 Class, again better still if you modify the windows;

 

- the Lima or Hornby Class 47 is good a bit too long but with a wider pillar between the front windows, could serve as a CIE A Class. There are sources for transfers/decals for things like CIE roundels that can help.

 

- by basically drawing and then cutting out basically rectangular shapes from thin but strong and easily-worked 30-thou plasticard, you can make your own bodies for any suitable second-hand chassis you can get cheaply, cutting the chassis down the middle and shortening if necessary. If you can manage that, then you can make much more accurate replicas; not up to the standard of that you can buy as a kit or ready-made, but much more cheaply - see my article, 'Modelling the Metrovicks', here:

 

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7248/6851548240_27998e8ec7_m.jpg

 

- look at the 'Workbench' projects here for inspiration; there are plenty of great tips and projects and they don't all cost the earth or require us to be born clutching a soldering iron (or a wad of dosh!);

 

- study photos you can find online, especially on sites like flikr, of Irish railway wagons, and find models which resenble these and that you can look for cheaply, second-hand. Typical examples are conflat (CONtainer FLAT wagons), 4-plank wagons, and BR 4-wheel plywood vans with the distinctive, ribbed pressed-steel ends.

 

Good luck with the layout - why not keep us posted by posting some pics of your progress on the 'Layout' section? Would be keen to see how you get on, it looks like a good project.

 

My layout, such as it is, is still under construction and is a modified Hornby plans book double track loop, constructed about 50% second hand Hornby track, the rest might as well be having been bought 20 years ago! Having had to sand thru to bare metal (steel too, none of this nickel-silver stuff) to clear many of the rails, I'll probably spend a lot of time cleaning it and running is never going to be stellar but it works and looks ok so far. Hate the black Hornby sleepers but a wash of brown woodstain took care of that.

Edited September 16, 2013 by 33lima

[Glenderg]

Chevron,

 

Welcome aboard and thanks for the kind words re the tips & tricks post. It needs updating, it's a while since I added anything like "Make and Do with a BIC biro ink column"*

 

The first thing I'd say about this is print out what the lads have said above, handy to read should inspiration flag a bit! Second is not to worry about stock, buildings and the landscaping stuff yet. The layout itself is the important bit. Get your boards made up, and get the plan you like printed off at full scale and lay it out on the board. Then you'll see the operational possibilities and restrictions of it. Once you're happy then you can think about getting track sorted. You'll have that part of the layout the longest, so it's key to get that right. To butcher a well known phrase, "Lay track in haste, repent at leisure". While you're laying track, wiring and ballasting, you can be thinking of where to go next, just keep us posted

*CIE semaphore signal columns, modern buffer shafts, building chimney pots etc....

 

Richie

[HighlanderMSP]

As Dave mentioned above, the biggest false economy is going with Hornby track (in particular the points), Peco make a very good product if you're not going to scratch build (I neither have the time or the inclination). When I lived in the US I bought all my Peco track from a tiny local model shop although my rolling stock had to come from the UK, so in addition to Hattons you can also look here https://railsofsheffield.com/default.aspx I've found their customer service and speed of shipping exceptionally good in the past - but I would encourage you to whenever possible support your local model shop, times are tough, I saw 'The Train Man' from Portlaois and Dave at the show at the weekend working hard, and it's guys like these along with the Marks Models etc we need to support with our hard earned cash. I'll be wearing the road thin between Castlecomer and Portlaois thin over the coming months.

It's a great hobby, changing with the times and so it has something for everyone - I like the technical side, DCC, and the scenic stuff - you can become immersed in your own world while it's gone to heck in reality - escape. Good luck with it, don't get frustrated, ask the questions because everyone will have been there at some point to some degree and the end result is very, very satisfying.

[Chevron]

Thanks Highlander,

 

I agree with supporting local model shops. Always used Marks models the one near rathcoole as im in city west.

 

I always found Peco points to be actually more expensive, While waiting on payday im tested my skills with basic modle making with card and printouts, and even done my first tree with clump foilage a small start but a start .

[Riversuir226]

Thanks Highlander,

 

I agree with supporting local model shops. Always used Marks models the one near rathcoole as im in city west.

 

I always found Peco points to be actually more expensive, While waiting on payday im tested my skills with basic modle making with card and printouts, and even done my first tree with clump foilage a small start but a start .

 

If your planning your layout you won t go far wrong with this software

http://www.anyrail.com/download_en.html

Definetly go with the peco points as they are streets ahead of the Hornby points.

Edited September 17, 2013 by Riversuir226

[Chevron]

Thanks riversuir,

Looking into that software now.

 

Just need to finally decide the definite size and location. as at the moment its only a 4x4 that gets stood on its edge and stood behind the sofa when not in use. (mind you its only track temporarily pinned to mdf for now

 

But that's only till i decide and figure what the hell i actually want lol.

[murrayec]

Hi Chevron

 

Some great resources I use

 

Get a copy of 'Modelling Irish Railways' by Stephen Johnson & Alan O'Rourke, which is out of print but available on Amazon. I got a loan of this book recently and found a mine of information in it, so I bought a copy. Its dated but has amazing tips on what RTR models can be converted to Irish, a discussion on scales of track and information on stations and on layouts. Also a great collection of photos of Irish models and train stuff.

 

For engine and coachwork you cant go wrong referring to George Dent's books by Crowood Press - http://www.crowood.com he has about 4 publications out now and they range from simple model modifications, model spray painting and then major model modifications. Its a very good range, though some of the books double up in areas but its worth it.

 

murrayec

[Dave]

Hi Chevron, get the Peco Electrofrog points as they are much better for DCC running

[Chevron]

So after all my faffing about .. for now im going to start my modeling/railway operating with a inglenook shunting puzzle.

I see this as a way of practicing my modeling/scenery and operating skills until such time that i can go ahead with a run around.

just need a way of operating the switches in the mean time.

Im looking to go with manual switching like what glenderg mentioned with biro and cable.

Just need to find simple instructions for trowing that switch

[RedRich]

Good luck Chevron, and keep us posted.

 

Rich,