Dart to Airport

[dave182]

Page 2 of The Sunday Times 'Heavy rail link to Airport favoured option'.

 

Talk of a rail link to the airport and on to Swords, branching off from Clongriffen. All lovely, and I'm pro any 'heavy rail' extensions on our little island, but surely the current city centre infrastructure couldn't possibly cope with the additional numbers. Surely this Airport plan would have to be considered hand in hand with the Dart underground proposal.

 

For once could the 'greater good' be considered without political or other agendas interfering; this would probably be 2 of the biggest infrastructure investments the state has ever undertaken.

 

As an aside, I would worry that this will lead to an even bigger population imbalance on the East coast. Having visited Galway recently, there is a clear need for a more innovative public transport solution for this city. I'm sue this applies to Cork and Limerick too.

[jhb171achill]

Galway traffic congestion is indeed chaotic. A Moycullen - city centre - Mervue area Luas-style thing was considered at one stage in the past. This would certainly be a good thing, with a branch out to Salthill a good addition.

[Junctionmad]

Dublin is the only city with sufficient density to justify such investments. The rest of the country is basically empty by European standards

[jhb171achill]

This being the case, airport railway is certainly a necessity. It also begs the question as to whether there is truly any future in Waterford to Limerick Junction, and the Nenagh branch!

[Glenderg]

Dublin is the only city with sufficient density to justify such investments. The rest of the country is basically empty by European standards

 

Cobblers, Dave, complete Cobblers Awls.

 

Trying to apply European standards and density arguments to this wonderfully obtuse little island is like saying that the only rail served airport in this state should be Farranfore.

 

R

[DiveController]

Dublin is the only city with sufficient density to justify such investments. The rest of the country is basically empty by European standards

Actually Ireland is only about 1% of the entire European Union population, so in effect the whole country is actually empty, not just the area outside the Pale. On a positive the note though, the Greeks form about 2%. Maybe we can cut them loose and use those billions of euro to invest in Irish railways?

[WT CLASS 2-6-4T No. 4]

If they do put in a dart link to the airport it will only be done for the benefit of southsiders so they wont have to be confronted by the horror that is the northside.

[Junctionmad]

Cobblers, Dave, complete Cobblers Awls.

 

Trying to apply European standards and density arguments to this wonderfully obtuse little island is like saying that the only rail served airport in this state should be Farranfore.

 

R

 

I don't see the cobblers argument. Unless there is a reasonable justification for commuter rail outside Dublin , it just becomes the ridiculous WRC arguments that just be " Dubs " got some railways we should get some too

 

Galway is a tiny city. Fix a few roads and some decent planning and it's sortable.

 

If one was to apply logical arguments sure you'd remove all interurban rail outside dart and LUAS etc.

[Mayner]

If they do put in a dart link to the airport it will only be done for the benefit of southsiders so they wont have to be confronted by the horror that is the northside.

 

Do the right thing and move the airport to Baldonnel or Saggart

[Glenderg]

I think you missed my point. Farranfore is actually rail served, the only airport in the state to be treated thus.

 

There is a reasonable justification to connect Shannon and Dublin to rail heads, not because of nonsense "1%" population arguments but because of US pre-clearance, duty free, tourists, the last parish before the atlantic, and the reasonable expectation that one can land at either airport and travel onward without the need to get a bus or taxi, fairly awkward modes of transport one might argue, particularly if english is not your first language.

 

From the National Spatial Strategy

 

"In the Mid-West, Limerick/Shannon needs to be strengthened — within the terms of the Land Use and TransportationStrategy now being developed. This will provide a platform for capitalising on the strategic location of this gateway,where a number of road and rail transport corridors converge, there is an international airport at Shannon and ports inthe Shannon estuary."

 

The "greater good" applies in this instance - the Clongriffin route works in so far that housing is not zoned in that area and can be developed at CPO costs without interfering with a whole pile of residents. Again, it's a critical development issue.

 

"In relation to air access, a critical mass of population is required within an airport’s catchment to support a range ofservices to and from a wide choice of destinations. A number of key points arise from this.In Ireland, Dublin Airport serves the city, region and country and offers the greatest number of internationalconnections. It has direct links to nearly all of the main cities in Europe and a limited number of key routes to theUnited States. In 2001 a total of seventy airlines served 122 international destinations from Dublin Airport. Expandingthe level of services available from Dublin Airport to an even wider range of destinations is essential in the interests ofunderpinning Ireland’s future international competitiveness. However, in a liberalised aviation market, route planningdecisions of airlines depend primarily on the anticipated level of demand. The national and regional benefits ofexpanded services from Dublin Airport can be enhanced through improved connections with (i) the integrated publictransport network proposed by the Dublin Transportation Office in A Platform for Change, (ii) the national roads networkand (iii) regional airports."

 

http://nss.ie/pdfs/Completea.pdf for a more comprehensive view.

[Junctionmad]

I can't see much reason to connect Shannon to anything. In fact I cant see the point of an airport there at all. A second Dublin airport near Naas or newbridge makes more sense.

 

Shannon ultimately is the WRC of airports. Kept alive by political considerations rather then real effective policy ones

 

Rail links in the greater Dublin area make sense given the numbers involved. Outside of Dublin little rail investment really makes any sense in reality.

 

The issue of lack of rail connections isn't exclusive to Ireland. Nice is a classic example , which is only now getting its LUAS style tram connection. Where bizarrely the heavy rail line is less them 1km away

Edited August 15, 2015 by Junctionmad

[richrua]

Ironically, up north , the nearest line to Belfast international was mothballed a few years ago in order to improve the other line North . Every now and then a letter appears in the paper about how daft it is to not have a railway link. I find it insane that there has been no concrete plan to connect our airports to the rail system . North or South. It is almost deliberate. I wouldn't knock a rail connection to Shannon either. If you consider that visitors to our island generally come from bigger countries than ours, many would consider flying to Shannon, then an extra two hours on a train to dublin or cork on the train to be of no consequence whatsoever. A two our train ride in Russia is minute in distance, for example. I actually think there is a real need for more passenger rail, subsidised or not. Population trends indicate it.

[Noel]

Its laughable that Dublin Airport is one of the few capital airports in EU that does not have an express direct heavy rail link to the city centre. And not one that stops every 1/2 mile for local votes. Get the travellers direct from the airport to the city centre faster will benefit Ireland Inc more than limiting the benefit to local communities (e.g. Heathrow express v the tube). Like many travellers I never get the tube anymore from Heathrow because it stops everywhere and takes too long to get into London compared to the Heathrow express (i.e. 15mins v 1hr). Dart underground link to Heuston also vital to join the dots, as is the need for a vast park and tide station down line from Heuston at the M50 for cars don't have 50 min rush hour trip in heavy traffic to Heuston. All IMHO of course

[Junctionmad]

Ironically, up north , the nearest line to Belfast international was mothballed a few years ago in order to improve the other line North . Every now and then a letter appears in the paper about how daft it is to not have a railway link. I find it insane that there has been no concrete plan to connect our airports to the rail system . North or South. It is almost deliberate. I wouldn't knock a rail connection to Shannon either. If you consider that visitors to our island generally come from bigger countries than ours, many would consider flying to Shannon, then an extra two hours on a train to dublin or cork on the train to be of no consequence whatsoever. A two our train ride in Russia is minute in distance, for example. I actually think there is a real need for more passenger rail, subsidised or not. Population trends indicate it.

 

If IR could just run the lines they do have , I'd be happy. Never mind giving them more rail infrastructure !!