CIE Standard coach (laminate stock)

[Kirley]

I see Irish Freight Models have launched a new model - Standard Laminate Coach

 

http://www.irishfreightmodels.com/

[Noel]

Yummie yes please, perfect for my modelling era! Have been waiting for these since they were announced last year. A few of these will make perfect stablemates for a mixed rake of Park Royals, Laminates and Cravens. The Black'n'tan era of RTR model coaching stock is now complete between MM, IFM and SF models. We've never had it so good.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Noel

[DiveController]

Kits or rtr , Noel?

[GSR 800]

The offer both kevin

[Noel]

Kits or rtr , Noel?

 

Tommy supplies both but I've ordered the RTR option. I have some of his Park Royals already which I found very good, so expecting this laminate to be just as good.

[jhb171achill]

Looks fantastic, but is the line on the green ones white or light green?

[GSR 800]

The line is white John, though it should be Eau De Nil I believe

[jhb171achill]

Ah for heavens sake. That's plain elementary! The white is wrong and the green looks a bit too bright. Surely to goodness we should be past simple errors like this, but they got the GNR railcar livery quite wrong too.

 

Pity, as the model looks so good otherwise. The font for the carriage numerals on both liveries isn't right either.

[DiveController]

Tommy supplies both but I've ordered the RTR option. I have some of his Park Royals already which I found very good, so expecting this laminate to be just as good.

Thought you might. It'll go well with thou other B'n'Ts and GSVs etc:tumbsup:

 

Ah for heavens sake. That's plain elementary! The white is wrong and the green looks a bit too bright. Surely to goodness we should be past simple errors like this, but they got the GNR railcar livery quite wrong too.

 

Pity, as the model looks so good otherwise. The font for the carriage numerals on both liveries isn't right either.

Without daylight or some standardized lighting, shade and flash photography can throw a whole different light on the shade of green (if you'll pardon the pun). You can't make the detail out on the BnTs either as the black isn't properly exposed/contrasted (if that makes sense).

 

Anyway, JB, you and a certain Mr O' Rourke seem to be acknowledged as consultants on the design/livery:ROFL:

[jhb171achill]

Makes perfect sense, DiveController.

 

Some colours - blue probably being the best example - can look very different in different light. CIE green has its moments, but those of us of a certain vintage who remember it will have seen the real thing in many variations of daylight, and daylight is the final arbiter of any colour.

 

Thus, it's probably easier for me (and a certain Mr O'Rourke!) to judge accuracy. But with so much information about nowadays and many good colour photos coming out of the woodwork, putting a white line on a green coach is just lazy, careless. What would people's reaction be if the white line on the Black and Tan one was light green!

Edited October 27, 2015 by jhb171achill

[GSR 800]

What would people's reaction be if the white line on the Black and Tan one was light green!

 

Riots in the Streets!

[jhb171achill]

And rightly so, GSR; I think I'll write to the papers.

[GSR 800]

I'll be at Hawkins street, protesting for the right shade of Eau de nil!

Edited October 27, 2015 by GSR 800

[jhb171achill]

Everybody - Vote for GSR800!

[craven1508]

great! these look nice, he did a great job on the park royal,s too,

a good weathering on these laminates and they,ll look good.

[jhb171achill]

The Park Royals were indeed a great job, and its to their great credit that they are doing anything Irish and RTR.

 

But a little care on such a basic thing as outward appearance ought to be a no-brainer.

[Kirley]

John, while you are on the topic of colour any suggestion for the colour scheme for the interior of these coaches?

I've reached that stage on my Laminates build.

[jhb171achill]

Kirley, laminates generally had charcoal grey upholstery with a blue fleck through it, black seat tops (antimacassar area), and the interior sides were real or mock wood effect with white ceilings. Internal doors were varnished wood.

 

The bright blue seats on the model shown are completely wrong - no laminate ever had seats in any colour remotely like that, whether in silver, green or black'n'tan days.

 

Incidentally, if you repaint one in silver, remember that roofs, ends and bogies are also silver! And - seriously weather the roof!

Edited October 28, 2015 by jhb171achill

[Kirley]

Many thanks John, that's very helpful.

[jhb171achill]

I have to say I've many very fond memories of those coaches. They had a very "homely" feel about them. The DCDR's 1918, although currently out of traffic, was my personal favourite type. However, one can still travel in 3223 on the DCDR, which is in the current normal running set.

[Noel]

I also have fond childhood memories of these coaches. Was it some of the laminates or Bredin's that had compartment/corridor layouts?

[Garfield]

Here's an interior shot of the coach preserved at the Kiltimagh Station Museum:

 

http://eiretrains.com/Photo_Gallery/Railway%20Stations%20K/Kiltimagh/IrishRailwayStations.html#Kiltimagh_20040703_003_CC_JA.jpg

[Glenderg]

As decorated by Bertie Bassett?

[jhb171achill]

Lovely shot, Garfield. The red upholstery is modern, but the black headrests and the rest of the interior sides décor is accurate and / or original.

 

Bredins had both side corridor and open configurations. I think all the laminates as such were open, but some earlier CIE-built stock (1950-55 period) had side corridors and compartments. These looked like laminates but technically were not, as the frames were solid wood, not laminated layers of wood.

[jhb171achill]

Incidentally, Kiltimagh (and Cultra and Clonakilty, for that matter) have taken the very non-museum-like approach to how to paint their historical artefacts. Namely, "ah, sure it'll do, its near enough". As IRM folk will be aware regarding the Kiltimagh coach, it never had a white snail and yellow line! That isn't "near enough", in my book anyway.

 

When people see things in museums, they surely have a right to expect that the thing is properly presented. Any of these errors can be righted easily of course, but why not do them correctly in the first place? It's not as if the information isn't there.

 

Laziness in this very visible aspect of preservation has pervaded every single solitary preservation outfit on this island. As a result, modellers are misled. I have seen numerous absolutely fantastic models wearing "liveries" which have clearly been copied from incorrectly painted survivors in preservation. You'd never get that across the pond; are we, as an island race, colour-blind? Am I, out of interest, the only person who feels that this is something that ALL of our preservation and museum outfits ought to be a great deal more diligent about?

 

Just asking....

[DiveController]

Incidentally, Kiltimagh (and Cultra and Clonakilty, for that matter) have taken the very non-museum-like approach to how to paint their historical artefacts. Namely, "ah, sure it'll do, its near enough". As IRM folk will be aware regarding the Kiltimagh coach, it never had a white snail and yellow line! That isn't "near enough", in my book anyway.

 

When people see things in museums, they surely have a right to expect that the thing is properly presented. Any of these errors can be righted easily of course, but why not do them correctly in the first place? It's not as if the information isn't there.

 

Laziness in this very visible aspect of preservation has pervaded every single solitary preservation outfit on this island. As a result, modellers are misled. I have seen numerous absolutely fantastic models wearing "liveries" which have clearly been copied from incorrectly painted survivors in preservation. You'd never get that across the pond; are we, as an island race, colour-blind? Am I, out of interest, the only person who feels that this is something that ALL of our preservation and museum outfits ought to be a great deal more diligent about?

 

Just asking....

I don't think you're wrong, JB, but I wonder if it's a lack of historical information or an expert like yourself to advise, or possibly failure to realize that green (and orange) has 40 shades. Black and white photos/sepia photos probably don't help and the earlier printing and photographic process may help to muddy the waters further..... just some thoughts

[Glenderg]

The most recent example of this is when they painted the two 141's in the black and tan scheme prior to preservation.

 

The lower quarters are in MKIII ORANGE NOT TAN.

 

Yes, this issue irks me beyond belief JB.

 

*pours the nightnurse..

[Kirley]

Here's an interior shot of the coach preserved at the Kiltimagh Station Museum:

 

http://eiretrains.com/Photo_Gallery/Railway%20Stations%20K/Kiltimagh/IrishRailwayStations.html#Kiltimagh_20040703_003_CC_JA.jpg

 

 

The layout of this coach would suggest it's a Bredin Buffet coach, would the colour scheme be the same in the Laminates?

[Kirley]

This is where I'm at with some brown paint slapped on.

 

[jhb171achill]

Bredin upholstery was the same in CIE days, but was originally dark red, a darker version of the ex-80 class seats on the DCDR inside 3223. Some survived with GSR upholstery well into the 1970s.

 

Bredin coach inside walls were painted a lighting grey quite often.

[minister_for_hardship]

Incidentally, Kiltimagh (and Cultra and Clonakilty, for that matter) have taken the very non-museum-like approach to how to paint their historical artefacts.

 

I wouldn't even class Clonakilty as a museum, more a place to bring the kids to a birthday party and whatever tins of Valspar are on the shelf at the local hardware shop will do as being 'close enough'. Even the P&T phonebox is decked out in a paint scheme it clearly never had.

Met one of the founders of Clon once, not an enthusiast at all, just someone who wanted to bring an attraction to the town.

 

Cultra should be better than this, should be on a par with the likes of NRM York.

Edited October 29, 2015 by minister_for_hardship

[Noel]

The "duck test" tends to suffice for kids.

[minister_for_hardship]

The "duck test" tends to suffice for kids.

 

And many adults, "ooh look at Thomas" (typical parent with kid pointing at an ICR)

[Noel]

And many adults, "ooh look at Thomas" (typical parent with kid pointing at an ICR)

 

But an ICR is surely a dead duck!

 

Ps. Off topic but the launch of "Thomas" on TV in the mid 80s is reputed to have partially saved the hobby by introducing a new generation to toy trains in an era where toy train set sales were falling off a cliff.

[GSR 800]

It basically did. Train spotting had decreased dramatically after steam was banished from the railways, scalextrix were far more popular,and many model railway companies closed down.when Thomas came round,it breathed new life into the hobby and many companies,such as Hornby began making " starter sets". Thomas is how I began to love trains and model trains and would later fall in love in Irish railways, but that's another tale....

Edited October 29, 2015 by GSR 800