From the Catacombs

[Galteemore]

No need! This was perhaps one of the most well appointed coaches on the NG in these islands. Corridor stock so no compartments. Also had electric lights and a toilet IIRC.

[hexagon789]

23 minutes ago, Galteemore said:

No need! This was perhaps one of the most well appointed coaches on the NG in these islands. Corridor stock so no compartments. Also had electric lights and a toilet IIRC.

I thought that but wondered why the two first class compartments seemed to have external doors while third class had a door, gap, door. 

I like old coaching stock, the variety of types and designs is infinitesimally interesting but sometimes I wish there were interior diagrams to make sense of the exteriors sometimes!

 

Going off on a bit of a tangent, the one narrow guage network I know had well-appointed stock for what it was would be the Corsican Railways. In the mid-1930s the best trains had carriages which resembled mini-Pullman cars, complete with coupés, toilets with hot and cold water and I believe electric lighting, though seemingly ungangwayed. Such comforts must have been welcome back then given the paucity and schedule of trains that there was then, the mainline had only two through trains each way, a morning stopping service and an early afternoon express each-way taking 5.5 hours for the 158km.

This is the only picture I've managed to find and it's from a different site to the other information so I am making an assumption that it's the correct type of carriage but it looks right for the description:

Edited June 23, 2020 by hexagon789

[jhb171achill]

1 hour ago, hexagon789 said:

A brake composite by the looks of it.

Two of the third class compartments appear not to have doors, though?

Yes - in that one they were internally arranged as a saloon.

I have seating diagrams of the NCC "corridors" somewhere - must delve!

[Dhu Varren]

According to E M Patterson's book on the Ballycastle Railway, coach 353 had 4 compartments plus the Guard's compartment and lavatory. From right to left in the picture would have been a vestibule and lavatory, a 1st class non-smoking compartment seating 6 and a door each side, a 1st class smoking compartment seating 6 and a door each side, a 3rd class smoking compartment seating 15 and a door each side in one bay, a 3rd class non-smoking compartment seating 16 and a door each side in one bay, and then the Guards compartment which had double side doors.

Initially I was a bit puzzled about the 15 seats in the 3rd class smoking compartment, but then I realised that the 1st class compartments had 6 seats with a corridor down the middle, offset to one side. This would then mean that the connecting door between the 3rd class smoking and the 1st class smoking compartments would have to be offset and would have reduced the space available for 2 + 2  seating across the coach, making it 2 + 1 against the partition. I have not been able to find a drawing to confirm this. This coach was the only one of the corridor coaches not to have ended up on the Donegal Railway.   

[jhb171achill]

This is what Des Coakham had to say:

 

[airfixfan]

Remember reading in an article that when the Ballycastle line closed the 3 regular coaches ended up in Ballymoney

 This meant when the CDR bought them at auction they were easily transferred to Vixtoria Road. However the other 2 ex B&L coaches ended up in Ballycastle. The UTA wanted more money to.move them to Ballymoney so the price was higher than their scrap value. Result the CDR only bought 3 coaches not 5!

Edited June 25, 2020 by airfixfan

[jhb171achill]

7 minutes ago, airfixfan said:

Remember teadingbin an article that when the Ballycastle line closed the 3 regular coaches ended up in Ballymoney

 This meant when the CDR bought them at auction they were easily transferred to Vixtoria Roaf. However the other 2 ex B&L coaches ended up in Ballycastle. The UTA wanted more money to.move them to Ballymoney so the price was higher than their scrap value. Result the CDR only bought 3 coaches not 5!

Interesting; wouldn't surprise me in the least, either on the part of the UTA or the CDRJC!

[Galteemore]

Just been reading the summer 1951 IRRS journal (it has a wonderful account of the SLNC by its chief engineer) and the ‘news’ section records that the CDRJC had only initially acquired one of the corridor coaches on trial as ‘great difficulty’ was anticipated in adjusting buffer height etc....

[jhb171achill]

Can you imagine a whole train of them going through the Barnesmore Gap behind a 5A on a through Derry - Killybegs train! That’s the sort of thing they’d have been made for!

[jhb171achill]

NCC No. 41, freshly painted unlined black, as was the norm in the 1940s for their remaining narrow gauge locomotives.

Exact date & location uncertain at this stage, though I may find it in later notes.

 

[Galteemore]

Very nice. Looks like Ballymoney from the small bits of background visible 

[airfixfan]

Picture of 41 in Saga by Rail Ireland showing it at Ballymoney in March 1950 and Boyd states it was freshly painted. So late 1940s sounds correct JHB.

[Patrick Davey]

More superb images thanks JB - so are we about to be treated to another selection from JHB Senior's incredible collection?  That would go down very well just at the moment!

[Midland Man]

With these photos I am becoming a fan of this railway. Is there any kits of locos and stock?

[jhb171achill]

Ballymoney it is, I've just discovered. 

Paddy - I've a few to put up over the next few days. Two more of the NCC narrow gauge, then we're off to Donegal..........! I found an interesting one of their only horse box.

Once the virus restrictions are over I will be on the search for means of getting each of the negatives properly scanned. There are hundreds, though mostly of a family farm in Co. Offaly in the 1910 / 20s, and many of these being glass negatives. These go back to my grandfather's time; like my father, he took very few photos compared to what he COULD have done! I had thought of putting the lot on CDs, but CDs, despite the unrealistic promises of their inventors and initial sellers that they were indestructible - that's utter nonsense. Half the music CDs anyone has, don't work.

I will probably put them on memory stick, but old-fashioned good quality paper prints still seem the most durable media. I also have a few dozen colour slides. He bought a colour slide camera about 1961, but with diesels becoming the norm, he lost interest in taking too many railway pictures shortly after he bought it. So almost all of the colour slides are of family holidays and so on, in the 1960s-90s. But he has some nice colour shots. There's a pic of a GNR lifting train near Armagh, as far as I recall, and some UTA steam.

Retaining and restoring old photos has become a big issue now. As I am seeing with Fry's stuff, and the excellent work of several other gentlemen now in advancing years who I know, even the top quality colour film in the 1960s could gain bluish tints, and needs even a little treatment nowadays. Sadly, Fry used shockingly poor quality, cheap film, for most of his stuff, and a large number of his colour slides even now are only fit for the bin.

Just goes to show the value of getting good quality stuff, no matter what we're buying; stingy or cheesparing financial attitudes to something meant to last is always a fool's game! Same with railway models..... though I digress........

3 minutes ago, Midland Man said:

With these photos I am becoming a fan of this railway. Is there any kits of locos and stock?

Nothing, Midland Man, however - the NCC narrow gauge is in itself a fascinating subject. The fastest narrow gauge engines in Ireland, the carriages shown above which were the only corridor coaches on the narrow gauge, and among the very few with toilets - and the unique architecture, even, of the Ballymena & Larne; the ore traffic on the Cushendall line, and the later survival of the Ballycastle line (just about) into UTA days - also, a considerable variety of locomotives, many of unique design.

Overall, the NCC narrow gauge lines would make a fascinating subject for a layout, but every single wagon, coach, locomotive, station building and even water tower would have to scratchbuilt.

I would recommend you look out for the books by Edward Patterson from the 1960s, "The Ballymena Lines" and "The Ballycastle Railway". If you are interested, I am aware that the RPSI has a copy of one of them, but they are rare editions now and they can fetch up to £35 sterling on ebay!

[Midland Man]

I saw a Patterson book in a rare book shop. The Clogher valley railway. (Sorry if I said it  wrong) it was 55 euros. Did not buy it. I only have one Patterson book that being the LLSR. I got it for a lovely 17 euros in Galway first edition. Lovely stuff.

MM

Edited June 25, 2020 by Midland Man

[Galteemore]

46 minutes ago, Midland Man said:

With these photos I am becoming a fan of this railway. Is there any kits of locos and stock?

One 7mm  card kit is available to start you off...Alphagraphix, naturally. It’s for one of the bogie coaches which started on the Ballymena - Larne ‘boat train’, then ended up in Donegal via Ballycastle. An ideal way to start scratchbuilding with that as a drawing to help you.

Edited June 25, 2020 by Galteemore

[jhb171achill]

17 minutes ago, Midland Man said:

I saw a Patterson book in a rare book shop. The Clogher valley railway. (Sorry if I said it  wrong) it was 55 euros. Did not buy it. I only have one Patterson book that being the LLSR. I got it for a lovely 17 euros in Galway first edition. Lovely stuff.

MM

Well done - that's a bargain! I have sourced two books which may be of interest to you; I will message you privately now.

[Patrick Davey]

23 hours ago, Midland Man said:

With these photos I am becoming a fan of this railway. Is there any kits of locos and stock?

This is on the excellent Worsley Works website:

http://www.worsleyworks.co.uk/NG/NG_Irish_BL_BC.htm

Am nearly sure these are brass etches for the corridor coaches.

If I could find an 009 2-4-2 loco chassis I would have a go at scratch building one of the compound tanks and proudly locate it on my Capecastle diorama, it wouldn't even have to be motorised!

Edited June 26, 2020 by Patrick Davey

[jhb171achill]

There ya go!! I wasn't aware of those. The whole set of them!

The bogies would probably be a scratchbuild, though? As would a suitable locomotive.

[Irishswissernie]

The E M Patterson books had been up-dated by Colourpoint and the second editions have far more photographs etc than the earlier  David & Charles First editions. Further the Ballymena Lines books was retitled as The Mid-Antrim Narrow Gauge. Copy on Amazon UK at £20 today. They are A4 sizesoft backs rather than the smaller size hard backs of the first editions.

 

Ernie

[Patrick Davey]

58 minutes ago, Irishswissernie said:

The E M Patterson books had been up-dated by Colourpoint and the second editions have far more photographs etc than the earlier  David & Charles First editions. Further the Ballymena Lines books was retitled as The Mid-Antrim Narrow Gauge. Copy on Amazon UK at £20 today. They are A4 sizesoft backs rather than the smaller size hard backs of the first editions.

 

Ernie

Indeed - and great reads they are!

1 hour ago, jhb171achill said:

There ya go!! I wasn't aware of those. The whole set of them!

The bogies would probably be a scratchbuild, though? As would a suitable locomotive.

I'd say so........ suitable underframes & bogies might be found but as for the locos..........

[jhb171achill]

Ballycastle station not long before closure. I suspect it was taken in 1949 when Senior inspected the track.

The train for Ballymoney has left. It consisted of locomotive, 2 of the former corridor coaches and one goods van.

Spare rails from a lifted siding sit in the foreground. There’s little goods traffic by now. Ominously, UTA buses lurk in the background....

(H C A Beaumont collection)
 

 

[airfixfan]

Probably coaches 350 and 353 as they were the spare coaches and ended up in Ballycastle after closure. The other 3 coaches were sold in 1952 to the CDR as they were in Ballymoney after closure. Could the photo be just after closure?

[jhb171achill]

It’s just before, evidently. (A train had just left, that's why there's nobody about). He didn’t go there after it closed.

He had visited it several times between 1947 and 1949, in connection with track inspection, and on one occasion to survey bridges for a feasibility study into converting it to 5’3” gauge!

Edited June 26, 2020 by jhb171achill

[airfixfan]

Thanks for the update the station building is still there hidden by undergrowth behind the bus garage.

[jhb171achill]

26 minutes ago, airfixfan said:

Thanks for the update the station building is still there hidden by undergrowth behind the bus garage.

Lovely little building to restore, I would think..... In the 1990s it still had some faded UTA green paint on it.

[airfixfan]

Still did last year will be up that way next month as we emerge from the dark ages!

[jhb171achill]

The last look at the NCC narrow gauge for now - Ballyboley Junction, mid 1940s.

Larne is off to the right, Ballyclare & Doagh line to the left. The erstwhile main line (closed finally in 1940) to Ballymena ran off to the left behind the station building, which would end up being demolished before the line closed. With the building still in position, but the station closed and neglected, this is in the days when only the goods train from Larne to Ballyclare paper mill siding was running, with all other services withdrawn.

In early times, the Ballymena & Larne Rly. had originally called it Ballyclare Junction. 

[Dhu Varren]

You got me a little confused for a moment JBH, so much so that I had to have a look at an old map. The line to larne disappears into the middle distance to the left of that very tall pole, which could be the signal shown on the map, and another one beyond. The line to Ballyclare and Doagh is the line next to the platform, and, as you say,  the line to Ballymena is the other side of the  building.  The line at  bottom centre is a siding, probably a headshunt, but it does not show on the map below.

 

Line to larne top right. Line to Ballymena bottom left. Line to Ballyclare/Doagh bottom left of centre.

[jhb171achill]

26 minutes ago, Dhu Varren said:

You got me a little confused for a moment JBH, so much so that I had to have a look at an old map. The line to larne disappears into the middle distance to the left of that very tall pole, which could be the signal shown on the map, and another one beyond. The line to Ballyclare and Doagh is the line next to the platform, and, as you say,  the line to Ballymena is the other side of the  building.  The line at  bottom centre is a siding, probably a headshunt, but it does not show on the map below.

 

Line to larne top right. Line to Ballymena bottom left. Line to Ballyclare/Doagh bottom left of centre.

Correct - the photo is from more or less the same angle as the bottom of the map.

[airfixfan]

Good photo around 1945 as the station was rationalised and most buildings such as signal cabin removed after 1945/6.

[jhb171achill]

1 hour ago, airfixfan said:

Good photo around 1945 as the station was rationalised and most buildings such as signal cabin removed after 1945/6.

Yes, I actually think he took this in 1944, though I haven’t an exact date! He took a good few on the NCC that year.

[Patrick Davey]

This is the site as seen on Google Earth - the station was at the very bottom middle with the divergence of the lines where the wedge-shaped area is. The right-curving course of the main line to Ballymena is still identifiable to the left of my blue line and the course of the branch to Ballyclare & Doagh is less identifiable, to the right of my red line.

[jhb171achill]

Remaining in places north, Senior found this sign, already an antique, on his travels in the mid 1930s.

The location is not recorded, but from clues of where he might have been, it’s going to be somewhere along the Porteeedown to Clones section.... Very probably at Portadown station itself as I have a vague recollection of him saying he saw one there once.

The Ulster Railway Co. was only Ireland’s second public railway, opening from Great Victoria St. to Lisburn in 1839, and gradually extending to Portadown, Armagh, Monaghan and Cavan.

It became part of the GNR in 1876.

Suitable for “lineside furniture” on a GNR (UR area)-inspired layout!