MGWR/GSR K1/K1a class (Woolwich Moguls)

[jhb171achill]

'Tis a K1 class.....

[DiveController]

'Tis a K1 class.....

Yup, saw that coming ....

Isn't it an N masquerading as a Irish K1? Aren't there are a few minor difference ladder on the tender etc?

[jhb171achill]

There were a few detail differences indeed, though I would leave it to those more technically informed than me to list them!

 

"Blinkers" on the British ones, and gauge are of course the most obvious.

 

I've an idea the wheels were slightly a different diameter, but I could be mixing that up with something else.

[minister_for_hardship]

The ladder and cut-out on the tender from oil-firing conversion days.

 

Think the original smokebox doors got replaced with GSR standard ones after a short time.

 

Also too many lamp irons.

[jhb171achill]

The ladder and cut-out on the tender from oil-firing conversion days.

 

Think the original smokebox doors got replaced with GSR standard ones after a short time.

 

Also too many lamp irons.

 

Smokebox door - yes, you're right, I'd forgotten that. Inchicore chimneys too, perhaps.

 

Im surprised, thinking of it now, that the model was never released in grey - they were all grey up to the late 40s, and some remained that way after that.

 

The black one with yellow snail is entirely inaccurate on both counts and probably copied from the RPSI's treatment of both 461 and 184 that way in the early 90s. This is why it is never wise - especially in Ireland - to take livery details from preservation; this is doubtless the source of the fictitious black-framed, snail-bedecked green "livery" for a G class loco!

 

The model with the black livery, light green snail and red lining is accurate, as a one off. That particular loco was painted like that for the Rosslare Express for a short time in the 1950s. It must have looked very smart.

Edited July 4, 2017 by jhb171achill

[leslie10646]

The Class N were the 5ft 6in driver SECR locos which were finished in Ireland as the 372 Class - Class K1.

 

The Class U were the six foot driver version, of which Ireland had six - Class 393 - Class K1a. If memory serves, they had a tiny splasher, which made them easily identifiable from their "smaller" sisters.

 

You can get the full low down in Michael McMahon and Jeremy Cleminson's excellent tome on GSR locos.

 

Leslie

PS my copy was upstairs, so I looked up a certain on-line encyclopaedia!

[DiveController]

The SR version

[jhb171achill]

The SR version

[ATTACH=CONFIG]28305[/ATTACH]

 

The tender was very different on the British ones.

[Noel]

The tender was very different on the British ones.

 

Any chance of a pair of photos side by side of UK one and an Irish one for comparison?

[Mike 84C]

The British N class had both types of Maunsell tender. They were also left and right hand drive but I believe the CIE ones were all right hand drive as all the photos I have seen show the exhaust injector by the left hand cab steps. And the reversing reach rod on the right.

[DiveController]

Any chance of a pair of photos side by side of UK one and an Irish one for comparison?

Best I can do for now

 

The British N class had both types of Maunsell tender. They were also left and right hand drive but I believe the CIE ones were all right hand drive as all the photos I have seen show the exhaust injector by the left hand cab steps. And the reversing reach rod on the right.

So they were driven from the right for left hand running? I believe there was a later batch that was left hand drive also?

[Mike 84C]

Morning DC, Good photograph I think it makes my point. I did a repaint of a BR N into a CIE K a couple of years ago but when I look at pictures of K class now, I can see that I should have put rivets on the smoke box and more effort into a different smoke box door. Its "face" spoils the loco for me.

Only ex GWR locos were all right hand drive for left hand running. All the other companies had a mixture of LH/RH drive locos, in my experience. But the GWR always was different!

[Colin R]

Seeing that the K1's had a riveted smoke box, it makes me wonder just what was in the kits of parts the GSR got. I read somewhere that the Southern version all had welded smoke boxes so why where they not included in the GSR kits, was it down to the lack of Steel and a cheaper deal was done just to take the parts off the Hands of the UK government at the time? or more cynically on my part was it just a stitch up by the British Government at the time to get rid of a number of part build locos? Either way I think the GSR had the last laugh.

 

Getting back into this thread has made me realise I have two white metal kits to build, so I will have to build one of each type now.

[Mike 84C]

In Locomotives of the GSR on pages 247,248,249 there are photos of Irish K class with the welded smoke box and the domed smoke box door. According to the potted history the MGW did a very good deal with an average purchase price per set of parts of £2,200 per engine and the Woolwich Arsenal had paid £3,375 average per boiler 3/4 yrs earlier. Cheap as chips hence the nickname Woolworths.

[Garfield]

Hi folks,

 

I've split this conversation from the thread in the 'for sale' section. Can I respectfully remind you all not to derail (pun intended) such threads with tangential discussion. Thanks!

[Horsetan]

Some additional notes:

 

Original K1 and K1a smokeboxes weren't so much welded as flush-riveted. That is to say that, once applied, the rivet heads were blended into the sheet metal of the smokebox. They would not show in photos.

 

Once the GSR/CIE overhaul scheme was underway and the smokeboxes fell to be replaced, standard practice was to use snaphead rivets whose domed heads were clearly visible. They were somewhat cheaper in terms of labour costs to use. The Maunsell door was also replaced by the GSR style (similar to the SECR Wainwright type which was part-domed, part-flush) with a wheel-and-handle.

 

The Irish engines also had a wider overall width over their footplates: I forget if it was 8'9".

 

Both K1/K1a shared the same 7'3"X 8'3" wheelbase, as did the British "N", but the 6' wheeled "U" had its own 7'3" X 7'9".