CIE C class - Suburban AEC 2600 Push-Pull

[Noel]

Video clip of CIE C class hauling converted AEC 2600 suburban push-pull set with Craven coaches. Loco is a Silverfox models kit running on a modified Bachmann centre drive chassis (141 donor), DVT is an AEC 2600 RTR by Silverfox models, and the coaches are MM RTR Cravens.

 

[enniscorthyman]

Nice sooth running Noel.

[Irishrailwayman]

Video clip of CIE C class hauling converted AEC 2600 suburban push-pull set with Craven coaches. Loco is a Silverfox models kit running on a modified Bachmann centre drive chassis (141 donor), DVT is an AEC 2600 RTR by Silverfox models, and the coaches are MM RTR Cravens.

 

 

Like the jazz and the train of course!

[Noel]

Nice sooth running Noel.

 

Credit due to Bachmann/MM for the precision gearing of 141 chassis with all wheel drive and all wheel pickups. I've a second SF C class kit in the workbench pipeline using another 141 donor chassis. I'm torn between the flying snail green livery, or the all black livery with the yellow front panel for the next one.

 

Like the jazz and the train of course!

 

It was the first play session I had a chance to run the converted AEC being pushed by the C class. The choice of jazz was homage to some of the old youtube clips of CIE locos from yesteryear

 

Thanks to Kirley's technical post over on RMweb on cutting up an 071 donor chassis for a B101 Sulzer, that my be my next project. I've put two Bachmann powered A classes on temporary hold.

 

Thanks guys.

[Noel]

C class hauling push/pull set headed by converted AEC 2600 driving trailer

[DiveController]

I've a second SF C class kit in the workbench pipeline using another 141 donor chassis. I'm torn between the flying snail green livery, or the all black livery with the yellow front panel for the next one.

Normally I'd say green would be a great alternative for you but given the relative rarity of the black and yellow, that has to be it. Most of the blacks had no panel and a red buffer beam, whereas others such as C211, C226 and re-engined B233 had a yellow panel/red bufferbeam. C203 has a YELLOW buffer beambeam in addition to the panel which was an very unusual look if you like to model some oddities

Edited October 11, 2017 by DiveController

[jhb171achill]

The single loco with the yellow buffer beam, C203, was even more of a livery oddity than you'd think - on next repaint, it went back to red! It was not just a one-off, but short lived too.

 

So, for a C, you've got:

 

Silver (1955-63; ALWAYS very heavily weathered!!)

 

Green with mid-waist lighter green line (approx 1959-1964)

 

Green without mid-waist line (approx 1959-64)

 

All black (with white front flashes about cab windows) (1962-68)

 

Above with yellow panels (Approx 1964 - 70)

 

Above with yellow panels and yellow buffer beams, as long as it's C203 (around 1963/4)

 

Black'n'tan with full tan lower (1963+ / short lived, only on a few engines)

 

Black'n'tan with dipped tan lower (after re-engining; thus suitable for 1970s, not 60s) (1972-7 approx)

 

Supertrain (1972-86)

 

No C class locos ever received the first IE "Tippex" livery, as the last were withdrawn about a year before it was introduced.

 

It should be noted, as will be seen from dates shown, that within the 1962-72 period, a number of variations of the black'n'tan (or black!) livery were concurrent. This was also the case with the A, B101, D, E and G classes; some having black liveries and some with tan as well. The dates shown above reflect the periods within which the liveries quotes would have been seen, in some cases on a loco which hadn't seen a paintbrush in a while (a bit like dome of the very scruffy 071s in black and silver in recent times!).

 

The reason that some locos had tan and others didn't was meant to be a bit like the distinction between lined green and all-grey on steam engines. Lined green was for passenger locos and Dublin Suburban locos, with grey for everything else. The all-black was initially supposed to be for goods and shunting diesels, with mixed traffic and passenger locos being black'n'tan. Shunters for Heuston Passenger would gain tan too, hence many D and E types bearing this (though latterly - certainly from about 1974 - the E's were all black without exception). Bizzarely, some of the G class had tan as they operated passenger trains on the Loughrea line!

 

That was the theory, but in practice it was mix'n'match...

Edited October 11, 2017 by jhb171achill

[jhb171achill]

I mîght add, for historical accuracy, that the only liveries ever seen on a C on push-pull duties would have been the "dipped tan" shown above on this truly excellent layout, and the "Supertrain" version - which actually would have been on the majority of them. The push pulls were just coming in around the same time as this livery.

[Noel]

The single loco with the yellow buffer beam, C203, was even more of a livery oddity than you'd think - on next repaint, it went back to red! It was not just a one-off, but short lived too.

 

So, for a C, you've got:

 

Silver (1955-63; ALWAYS very heavily weathered!!)

 

Green with mid-waist lighter green line (approx 1959-1964)

 

Green without mid-waist line (approx 1959-64)

 

All black (with white front flashes about cab windows) (1962-68)

 

Above with yellow panels (Approx 1964 - 70)

 

Above with yellow panels and yellow buffer beams, as long as it's C203 (around 1963/4)

 

Black'n'tan with full tan lower (1963+ / short lived, only on a few engines)

 

Black'n'tan with dipped tan lower (after re-engining; thus suitable for 1970s, not 60s) (1972-7 approx)

 

Supertrain (1972-86)

 

No C class locos ever received the first IE "Tippex" livery, as the last were withdrawn about a year before it was introduced.

 

It should be noted, as will be seen from dates shown, that within the 1962-72 period, a number of variations of the black'n'tan (or black!) livery were concurrent. This was also the case with the A, B101, D, E and G classes; some having black liveries and some with tan as well. The dates shown above reflect the periods within which the liveries quotes would have been seen, in some cases on a loco which hadn't seen a paintbrush in a while (a bit like dome of the very scruffy 071s in black and silver in recent times!).

 

The reason that some locos had tan and others didn't was meant to be a bit like the distinction between lined green and all-grey on steam engines. Lined green was for passenger locos and Dublin Suburban locos, with grey for everything else. The all-black was initially supposed to be for goods and shunting diesels, with mixed traffic and passenger locos being black'n'tan. Shunters for Heuston Passenger would gain tan too, hence many D and E types bearing this (though latterly - certainly from about 1974 - the E's were all black without exception). Bizzarely, some of the G class had tan as they operated passenger trains on the Loughrea line!

 

That was the theory, but in practice it was mix'n'match...

 

Thanks Jonathan. That's very interesting and quite helpful in the context of another C class, a pair of A classes and a 101 I am hoping to complete early this winter. Your encyclopaedic knowledge of Irish railways combined with the clear and concise way you provide it, is and has been a wonderful resource for model railway enthusiasts. Just pouring over a copy of 'Rails Through North Kerry', a superb book.

Edited October 11, 2017 by Noel
typo

[Mayner]

Strictly speaking hauled stock such as the Cravens could not be used for push pull operation with the B201 Class and the 6100 Class push pull driving cars.

 

Any form of hauled stock would have been a great improvement on the converted railcars which lost their comfortable seating and tended to roll at speed when converted to push pull operation.

 

The Push-Pull sets were converted from AEC railcars and Powered Intermediates usually marshaled in 5 car sets, I think an AAR control system was used similar to the General Motors locos.

 

121 Class locos worked the Greystones Shuttles after the B201s were withdrawn from main line service until replaced by leased NIR 80 Class set

 

I always thought CIE missed an opportunity in failing to set up the B201s for top and tail operation with the MK2D Supertrains creating an Irish Midi-HST. The B201s were capable of fast running and like the 001s with Commonwealth bogies rode steadier and were easier on the track at high speed than the pure bread GM locos

 

These would have been ideal for speeding up the Heuston-Limerick via(Nenagh) and Heuston Waterford trains.

 

Hint Hint Noel

[jhb171achill]

Thanks Jonathan. That's very interesting and quite helpful in the context of another C class, a pair of A classes and a 101 I am hoping to complete early this winter. Your encyclopaedic knowledge of Irish railways combined with the clear and concise way you provide it, is and has been a wonderful resource for model railway enthusiasts. Just pouring over a copy of 'Rails Through North Kerry', a superb book.

 

Very many thanks, Noel, greatly appreciated.

[jhb171achill]

Strictly speaking hauled stock such as the Cravens could not be used for push pull operation with the B201 Class and the 6100 Class push pull driving

 

The Push-Pull sets were converted from AEC railcars and Powered Intermediates usually marshaled in 5 car sets, I think an AAR control system was used similar to the General Motors locos.

 

 

Correct. Cravens were never run with AEC cars at all, push-pull or otherwise, apart from some rare early outings on the Cork line, where I think 2 or 3 were temporarily wired for AEC working. They never ran with BUT cars at all.

[DJ Dangerous]

Did the entire C Class fleet survive until 1986 or were there any early drop-outs?

[jhb171achill]

22 minutes ago, DJ Dangerous said:

Did the entire C Class fleet survive until 1986 or were there any early drop-outs?

201 was blown up in 1973 - I posted a pic of its remains recently.

210, 217 and 231 (now preserved at Downpatrick) were withdrawn in 1983.

The rest were all 1984, 5 and 6.

The following six were sold to NIR, and their dates are as follows:

Date built  CIE No.  NIR No. Withdrawn  Actual Date "Stopped"

1957            C216       104          1995                      1994

1957            C218       105          1995                      1993

1957            C227       106          1995                      1995

1957            C228       107          1993                      1987   (May not have been used much at all by NIR)

1957            C230       108          1995                      1994

1958            C234       109          1993                      1987

[DJ Dangerous]

34 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

201 was blown up in 1973 - I posted a pic of its remains recently.

210, 217 and 231 (now preserved at Downpatrick) were withdrawn in 1983.

The rest were all 1984, 5 and 6.

The following six were sold to NIR, and their dates are as follows:

Date built  CIE No.  NIR No. Withdrawn  Actual Date "Stopped"

1957            C216       104          1995                      1994

1957            C218       105          1995                      1993

1957            C227       106          1995                      1995

1957            C228       107          1993                      1987   (May not have been used much at all by NIR)

1957            C230       108          1995                      1994

1958            C234       109          1993                      1987

Thanks a million!!!

[DiveController]

On 4/22/2020 at 12:49 PM, jhb171achill said:

201 was blown up in 1973 - I posted a pic of its remains recently.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/39199847555/in/photolist-22HXsYB

224s was scheduled to be the original NIR 105 but had a bent frame when it arrived in NI and was replaced by 218. 224s languished about York Road for years before being finally scrapped with the others in the mid-90s

 

Edited July 8, 2020 by DiveController

[Westcorkrailway]

A good pal from the RPSI has told me that there cravens have push/pull sockets. So that begs the question, what was the point of giving that function if it was never used. A trial run maybe? Or just in case they were needed as a quick replacement?

[Westcorkrailway]

Or was it something all coaches were given by regulation

Edited October 24, 2021 by Westcorkrailway
Glitch posted twice