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Posted (edited)

Signing up, as a first step to doing something really.

I need a safer pastime so have alighted upon railway modelling, something I had a brief interest in as a child, two HO 'Jouef for Playcraft' trainsets then a couple of years of Railway Modeller/Model Railway Constructor, all now up in the loft.

Inspired by memories of travelling by train in Ireland from the 60s onwards, mainly Belfast/Larne ports to Derry but once Dún Laoghaire to Sligo in 1972*, the flat-faced NIR Class 70 and the frowning CIE C Class sum it all up for me.

So I have an inkling for an impressionist NIR, ex-NCC, precast concrete, somersault signalled, unfenced, Italianate demolished, Larne line type halt - simple offset loop with siding with a desultory NIR Class 70/104 railcar/freight operation, hulking spoil wagons, Pandoro containers and corrugated RUC station backdrop on something like a 6x1 baseboard. More 80s than 70s, more container flats and cement bubbles than brown vans and ex-carriage underframes, more green corrugated than grey...

Impressionist because this may never have actually happened, the product of an overnight traveller’s lack of sleep. Let’s call it Ballyshane NIR.

 

*black crockery in the buffet car, now there’s a detail for you!

Edited by NIR
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Great concept. 

The second hand C class locos cane just after the 70 class cars were withdrawn, though there wasn’t much in it.

A Hunslet puttering about with a ballast train, maybe?

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Posted (edited)

Haha, I suspected that. Maybe it's something that should have been...

I've had a good read through the forum and have learned a lot, I just need to get started now

Edited by NIR
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Like it. Having spent my schooldays commuting to Belfast on the Larne line by 70, 80 and 450 class, this sounds great. DH shunters in the yard at York Road, Hunslets and C classes making appearances - takes me back! All the best with this.....

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Posted (edited)

A basic outline...

Scenic area bounded in yellow with fiddle yard to left

Simplified Larne Harbour for the trackplan

Basic Larne line halt, brick shelter on a concrete-faced tarmac platform

RUC station with corrugated curtain wall and sangar as low relief backdrop

Painted 'between hills and sea' backscene with perspective to vanishing point off to left

Precast concrete overbridge in low relief (both parapets?) to mask hole in the backscene, abutments to continue through hole

Derry-style freight operation, short mixed trains of CIE wagons but hauled by a NIR Class 104, containers and cement (would like Pandoro containers outward  but don't think that ever happened at Larne)

Two-car NIR Class 70 passenger operation (not sure that ever happened either)

Class 104 in light blue, Class 70 in maroon and blue (prefer the earlier UTA livery but that is too much of a stretch)

Basic operation is railcar out and back on middle road, freight pulled into middle road and run around, pulled back out then propelled into siding, loco returns to dwell on loop, railcar returns on middle road

No idea about signalling plan

Maybe a through station onto a right-hand fiddle yard, shelter is a bit too basic for a terminus

Maybe a kickback siding back along the front edge of the baseboard, a new use for the iconic NIR spoil wagons, a new spoil contract to extend the baseboard!

Anyway, that's enough for now.

 

ballyshanenir.jpg.2dde11c1fc01308df45857bc5682ad95.jpg

Edited by NIR
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That looks good , less is more and the kick back will block use of siding. It might prove more useful for displaying stock to imagineer a groundframe and points offscene to the left and the siding coming in parallel to the main line with buffer stop at 45dgrees to baseboard edge - it reality a disconnected line from fiddle yard to display wagons / odd loco. 

The minimalist station building in keeping with the hard up era and perhaps a brick built one with a small lock up booking office in ugly grey cement bricks and a concrete flat roof, would look the part.

2car 70 or 80 action always possible. 

The platform is fine for train in front to avoid the issue of open doors but to avoid the "linear" look the low relief RUC might move right and be angled from the backscene. I think you are stuck with a row of trees on left to disguise arrivals or the common concrete bridge  ruse.- which works better for the siding idea as the shadows cast confuse the connection. 

Modern micro layout thoughts suggest to have a bulge or curvaceous front edge also to break up the linear effect of parallel tracks - also allows some more scenic development on the front- it could be a plug on bit just for play time if space tight.

Have fun regardless

Robert     

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, Robert Shrives said:

That looks good , less is more and the kick back will block use of siding. It might prove more useful for displaying stock to imagineer a groundframe and points offscene to the left and the siding coming in parallel to the main line with buffer stop at 45dgrees to baseboard edge - it reality a disconnected line from fiddle yard to display wagons / odd loco. 

That's a great idea, screens the opening in the backscene and is suggestive of a former steam-era track layout lying beyond, roofless engine shed and an aquatic turntable probably. You have got me thinking of sector plates...

Edited by NIR
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For "fiddling" also check out peco loco lift system  and cassettes  . A half way house is to have one permanent track into a fiddle yard , one point/ turnout and a stub line leading to a cassette link. So you can  always just play with one item and not bother with the faff of fiddling but allows the flexibility to swap stock if and when required - and best part of cassettes without handling stock so damage reduced - Mind you having seen an O gauge cassette of wagons get tipped on to the floor at a show  it is not perfect! - the noise and following silence  at the show was deafening and the shock and sympathy from all was amazing, I guess meany felt a wallet squeeze at the thoughts of cost of repair...!

Hope all goes well

Robert        

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Very interesting concept. On my first visit to Northern Ireland in August 1980 it was via Stranraer - Larne so I got my first taste of NIR (indeed, any Irish railway) via this route. In those pre-internet days it all came as a bit of a shock. Biggest shock was seeing ex-BR mk II blue grey coaches at York Road! Over subsequent years I travelled the same route. The 70 class were stable performers the first few visits.

I still remember in 1980 the purpose of the trip was to visit Ulsterbus depots, for which I had a permit - useful for explaining to security services what I was up to, so Larne depot was the first on my list. Afterwards, it was down the street to Larne Town NIR and a quick Guinness in the (modern) station bar located on the platform. Perhaps something to add to  your halt, for that is what Larne Town was effectively. I couldn't help notice how several stations had Ulsterbus vehicles "outstationed" at them, a practice prevalent throughout the country due to the (ongoing) direct link between rail and bus operations. So a blue/cream bus (or two) parked next to your station would be a must.

Larne Harbour seemed to run on the "one train in steam" principle as there would often be a DEMU parked in one platform but as an arriving passenger I would have to wait the arrival of a boat train from Belfast to start my onward journey.Perhaps the parked unit was stabled there for peak hours and first train of the day use?

As this was before the station was rebuilt with the adjacent ferry passenger building there was a freight/permanent way siding which boasted an overhead gantry crane. Too small for ISO containers it looked like a remnant from loose fitted freight wagon days  although was probably only used to lift rail from pw flat wagons. There was also a road/rail mobile crane vehicle parked here with a lifting device suitable for small loads, nothing like the massive container lifting vehicles of today as produced by Oxford Diecast. A few years later I photographed two of NIR's three DH shunters parked up in this siding so you could pretty much get away with anything in a similar situation on your layout, even cement bubbles unloading to a road cement tanker!

Although I have very fond memories of my early visits to Belfast (when things were a little "more exciting"), my own layout/diorama plans are more rooted in NIR of the 90s and 00s and I'm looking at a slightly fictional version of Adelaide Yard as it is now with a railcar depot and p/way sidings. This will also act as a display for a lot of my modern IE locos and stock. Only problem is all of those 80/450/3000/4000 class multiple unit conversions needed......

All the best,

Bill.

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Posted (edited)

Signalling is a bit of a mystery to me. Differing practices even more opaque.

I assume all incoming and outgoing freight and shunting movements around the loop and siding are controlled by ground signals with catch points, all interlocked and controlled from a signal box or ground frame located somewhere out of sight in the fiddle yard, which is where the shunt limit is. I won't be modelling any of this.

I assume incoming passenger workings will have passed all the relevant signalling before they appear from the fiddle yard so just have to obey the buffer stop.

Outgoing passenger workings though, won't they need a starting signal at the platform end before the loop diverges to give the driver the go ahead? A single red somersault stop signal on a post, no distant signal because not a through station?

Does this make operational sense?

If it was a through station could all signalling (except ground signals on siding and loop) be assumed to be 'somewhere else'?

Edited by NIR

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If it’s an NCC prototype, the somersault signal you mention would be an interesting addition! These signals were unique to the NCC.

On the GN and the Bangor line, lower quadrant signals were used. 

On operational matters, you’re exactly right.

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Posted (edited)

Here is a signalling plan (including an assumed approach signal in the fiddle yard to indicate loop, main or siding)

Incoming passenger train gets the main approach signal if the ground frame (somewhere in the fiddle yard) controlling shunting movements is locked out (tokens or something) leaving the main road set

Similar for an outgoing passenger train, it gets the platform starter if the ground frame is locked out leaving the main road set

Incoming freight loco pulling forward from its train in the loop needs to get the platform starter to run around?

Outgoing freight train marshalled up within the shunt limit (somewhere in the fiddle yard) gets a starter from the next stop signal along (also somewhere in the fiddle yard)

 

ballyshanenir_signals.jpg.3427e15196b1678d7b387a3b6cbb7091.jpg

Edited by NIR

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, NIR said:

Incoming freight loco pulling forward from its train in the loop needs to get the platform starter to run around?

Bad form to reply to yourself but, thinking about it, the alternatives are

1.  Needs a go ahead from the platform starter

2.  Ground frame activation for shunting gives a constant go ahead on the platform starter

3.  Some sort of permission to ignore the platform starter when the ground frame is activated, to obey ground signals only

The first sounds laborious while the second sounds positively dangerous, what if an outgoing freight precedes an outward passenger working already sat at the platform, both get the go ahead! The third sounds a reasonable workaround if the incoming approach signals are set to stop by activation of the ground frame and the shunt limit is observed.

(I'm assuming all this interlocking stuff is fairly trivial)

Edited by NIR

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Signalling looking good but as you have noted trap points  required to stop wagons entering line from front siding and also to my mind both ends of the top loop siding. - these can be modeled in several ways - expensive is peco ones, medium is to cut up broken points using just the bladed section discarding the crossing  bit. Cheap is to file up some plain rail and glue in place but these are static items , all depends on your thoughts - Ratio produce some plastic rodding items so you can suggest connections to small ground frames  .

Yes 3 - likely to be token operated ground frames thus locking main signals to danger.   A generation of signals later and it would be a stop board on platform with some controlling script under it and an end of token working board as you enter from from fiddle yard. Plus miniature stop boards instead of ground signals. 

Robert 

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Posted (edited)

You're right, maybe static ground signals deserve static catch points...

Signalling this as a through station (a fiddle yard to the right as well as the left) couldn't the platform starter be done away with on the assumption that stop signals and a shunt limit were somewhere in the right hand fiddle yard - passenger workings stop to a timetable not to signalling. So a good reason to leave it as a terminus, it gets to keep the somersault signal.

Edited by NIR

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NIR,

Undoubtedly with a through station the ground frames could be token released. With an intermediate token instrument in the station office  a train could be locked in the siding. However you would not be able to leave the adjoining token change point until locked so traffic density could be low. You could be 10 - 60 minutes away from the next action! Great for crew going down the local bar but not much good if waiting for a train or just watching , keeping the terminal theme would give more. 

Robert        

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Posted (edited)

NIR hauled parcel traffic in ISO containers between York Road Belfast and the Larne Harbour "Gantry Siding" into the 1980s. The wagons  (bogie & 4 wheel ) were converted from redundant coach and Brown Van underframes adapted to carry 20' containers and the trains were hauled by 70 Class & possibly 80 Class railcars. 

The containers were fitted with side doors used internally in Northern Ireland only and not lifted off the train at Larne Harbour.

NIR also converted a number of MED & AEC railcar trailers to parcel vans by sheeting over some of the windows and fitting double doors, these were again hauled by railcars rather than a diesel locomotives.

Edited by Mayner
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Parcel traffic between York Road and Larne Harbour. That explains the "odd" rolling stock parked alongside the ex-BR blue/grey mk11s on my first visit. I have a quickly snatched slide taken as the train pulled into York Road which shows a very faded red/grey MED power car with a train of coach underframes plus containers on them. Up until now I just thought it was a scrapline. However, there are "Red Star Parcels" signs on some of the rolling stock, almost a "prototype for everything" scenario!

Bill.

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On ‎3‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 3:43 PM, NIR said:

 

Precast concrete overbridge in low relief to mask hole in the backscene, abutments to continue through hole

Derry-style freight operation, short mixed trains of CIE wagons but hauled by a NIR Class 104, containers and cement (would like Pandoro containers outward  but don't think that ever happened at Larne)

Two-car NIR Class 70 passenger operation (not sure that ever happened either)

Class 104 in light blue, Class 70 in maroon and blue (prefer the earlier UTA livery but that is too much of a stretch)

Basic operation is railcar out and back on middle road, freight pulled into middle road and run around, pulled back out then propelled into siding, loco returns to dwell on loop, railcar returns on middle road

No idea about signalling plan

Maybe a through station onto a right-hand fiddle yard, shelter is a bit too basic for a terminus

Maybe a kickback siding back along the front edge of the baseboard, a new use for the iconic NIR spoil wagons, a new spoil contract to extend the baseboard!

Anyway, that's enough for now.

 

ballyshanenir.jpg.2dde11c1fc01308df45857bc5682ad95.jpg

Commenting on the bits you mentioned above:

1.  The NCC had much concrete structural work - in fact they were one of the first companies in Ireland to use it on a widespread basis.

2.  Derry-style freight operation - much scope there for the modeller! If you're dealing with the period where NIR's second-hand "C" class locos were in operation (1980s), you're into cement bubbles and fertiliser; doubtless you'll have some of IRM's "bubbles" ready! And RTR fertiliser wagons are something for the future, we hope.

3.  70 and 80 class sets, also MEDs, almost always ran in 3-car sets, especially the 70s. However, 2-car sets were to be seen occasionally (especially in the case of 80s). In the 1980s there were still two steam-era coaches used as railcar intermediates with 70s. One was ex-NCC No. 526, which remained in maroon and light grey until its demise in 1981 or 1982, the last steam-era coach still in use in Ireland. It dated from 1926, and retained its internal mahogany seat frames and high seat backs to the end. Then there was 727, and ex-GNR K15 and the last GN passenger coach in traffic. It ended in the maroon and blue livery but internally still had its grey and red GNR upholstery in part.

The UTA and NIR receive less attention than the bigger and more varied CIE. But there is very much of interest in your scenario. If you expand your "timeline", than up to 1970 you can include a filthy "Jeep" on a ballast train, and maroon Hunslet on the goods. You could even have a visiting AEC or BUT set, even though these very rarely left ex-GNR metals. A Sunday School steam excursion could bring in an eclectic mix of old ex-GN and ex-NCC steam carriages, hauled by the same Jeep. Goods can be in the hands of a pair of MPD railcars - which they were more often than with locos after 1965.

"Poetic licence" might allow a CIE 141 in (if you can get one!) with a goods.

In the period you're going for, cement, Guinness and fertiliser were the traffic on the NCC from Lisburn to Derry. Only mail and parcels went to Larne. With Derry services going via Lisburn to Central, the Larne line was "cut off". The "Red Star" containers were carried on long-wheelbase four wheeled flats converted mostly from "brown van" chassis, but weren't lifted on and off them - wagon plus container functioned as a goods van. 

The "spoil" wagons are a great idea. In those times the ex-CIE locos were the staple motive power. "Hunslet" 102, the only remaining one, spent its interludes in service shunting Adelaide goods yard and rarely if ever went anywhere near Larne, or indeed anywhere else up the NCC. Most of the time, though, it was out of use - the Hunslets were a poor design to start with, and unsuited to the work they were ordered for. Thus, too-heavy initial use made them unreliable. You might eventually have a few battered oul four wheel wagons and one of Leslie McAllister's ex-GNR guards vans for a ballast train, hauled by a "DH" 0.6.0 diesel shunter (English Electric, 1969).

If it's two-car passenger trains you want, the last two MPD cars were sometimes run on locals as a pair, though to be accurate usually only as far as Carrickfergus. While one had gained the then modern blue and maroon livery, the other remained maroon and light grey to the end.

I always like seeing northern-based layouts, as there is much there that has yet to be modelled by more than a handful of good folk. Looking forward to seeing this one develop. Good luck with it.

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4 hours ago, Ulsterbus Bill said:

Parcel traffic between York Road and Larne Harbour. That explains the "odd" rolling stock parked alongside the ex-BR blue/grey mk11s on my first visit. I have a quickly snatched slide taken as the train pulled into York Road which shows a very faded red/grey MED power car with a train of coach underframes plus containers on them. Up until now I just thought it was a scrapline. However, there are "Red Star Parcels" signs on some of the rolling stock, almost a "prototype for everything" scenario!

Bill.

Yes, Ulsterbus Bill, that was a period with much to see; doesn't it always seem as if the generation before us had it all? (In my case, steam, which I only remember in its last dying decade).

I must dig out some photos i have, but from memory, what was about York Road in the early 1990s (both IN traffic and in "storage") was as follows:

The three DH shunters. One in maroon with light grey stripes, two in light grey with maroon stripes (or maybe two and one!). In their short life they had three liveries.

The ex-CIE "C" class locos, which NIR called "MV" (for "Metrovick" - even though they then had GM engines) or "104" class. One remained in faded CIE livery, as it had only been acquired for spares. The rest were in NIR plain blue with a "day-glo" orange upside-down chevron on the front (not yellow).

80 class railcars - most in the new light grey with blue upper part, and white-black-white-yellow stripe at waist level. A couple still in all-light-grey with broad maroon stripe below window, the livery in which three sets had been lent to Irish Rail. Others retained the short-lived and quite hideous "Suburban" red and cream (not light grey), with orange stripe.

The 071 class ("GM" or "111" class to NIR) trio used on the "Enterprise" in their earlier lighter blue, with day-glo orange rectangles on the ends. The YELLOW end patches appeared once they were repainted the darker blue they carry now.

The "Hunslets". No. 103 was scrapped, and 101 was derelict, but 102 soldiered on, and in between long spells out of traffic, she shunted Adelaide goods yard. The Hunslets were a bad design, underpowered for the work they were acquired for. Thus, they were overworked in their early years, leading to unreliability before long, and as a result they had a short life. More often than not, shunting at Adelaide was carried out by IE locos. I think it was 154 or 155 that was virtually based there for several years on loan. (This led to rumours that NIR would buy a couple of 141s from IE, as shunter / PW locos, and send 112 south in exchange; this loco spent about six years on loan to IE and appeared on everything from beet to the Ballina branch train....but that's another tale.)

The MED and MPD classes were by then out of use, and the 70s scrapped. Go a few years earlier, to lets say the mid 1980s, and the modeller can add to the above eclectic list the last two MPD cars in use, one still in maroon and grey and the other in blue and maroon; some 70s, still with ex-NCC or GNR coaches as centre cars, and the last few MED sets, none of which were ever repainted blue and maroon.

NIR and the UTA are often ignored by modellers. Scenically, much of the small network isn't on a par with places further south or west, but a layout based around Castlerock - Downhill tunnel would be spectacular! The "Troubles" led to some stations looking little better than derelict, with temporary buildings after bombs, sectarian graffiti and a general air of depressing dereliction - but that in itself, as a background, is as historically interesting as it is unique in modelling terms. And gems still existed - Lisburn station is a W H Mills delight to this day, with a background of beautiful mature trees. Derry's Waterside station was a spectacular setting for a layout until it was blown up. Go back to the 1960s, and what about the Derry Road for a layout? Sheer gem that would be.

In the twilight years of Grosvenor Road good yard in Belfast, much scope is there for the modeller - the elusive BCDR diesel No. 28, which shunted dilapidated UTA goods wagons and CIE "H" vans about through the weeds until 1965, and CIE's Dundalk goods trains until its demise in 1972. The tail end of steam; a tatty "Jeep" on a ballast train sits, in summer 1970, alongside a pristine "whistler" "Hunslet" and its brand new BR-style Mk 2s, while an eclectic mix of MEDs, AECs, and BUTs await their next jaunt to Portadown. Ditch the "Jeep" and call it 1974, and you can add a few 70 and 80 class cars too. (70s, incidentally, while they appeared on the "Enterprise" in the late '60s, seem to have all migrated to the NCC by the early 70s - only to reappear on locals, especially when the Derry trains were re-routed via the Antrim branch in 1976).

I look forward to seeing Ballyshane develop. If money and time was unlimited, and we all lived in buildings the size of Leinster House, you could model the lot. Like you, I settle for something that can be a "microcosm" layout, as the Planning Dept. of the Ministry of Domestic matters needs to be negotiated with regarding an extension. You think Brexit is complicated; securing such permission is an ongoing work.....

Enough ramblings of an oul wan. My coffee is getting cold and I've stuff to do.

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Posted (edited)

Realised that one of the ground signals needs to be yellow to allow a loco to pull forward from the platform during a run around from the loop. It has to pass this ground signal at danger as it cannot be set for the main only for the loop, so the signal needs to be yellow to allow passing at caution!

Wrong! - there are never any yellow ground signals on a running line apparently. So maybe two stacked red ground signals in place of the yellow, the top to allow shunt movements from the right along the main and the bottom to allow shunt movements from the right into the loop.

ballyshanenir_signals.jpg.jpg.aae04a3112a5cedd0a2f8bf02d00a248.jpg

Or maybe this is overdoing it? - a triple-stacked red ground signal would equally be required to shunt the loop/main/siding from the left! - so maybe back to square one with a single red disc 'reading both ways' through the point under 'conditional locking'.

Also, the splitting signal I assumed offscene on the left is anomalous - it signals entry to a bidirectional passing loop but the loop itself has no stop signals controlling exit at each end so is not signalled to be a passing loop - so rationalise it to a single post stop signal plus ground signal(s) as modelled on the right (and similarly make the modelled signal on the right a rationalised splitting signal as the visible relic of a former layout?)

Who said signalling was easy, nobody ever.

Enough planning, time to remember. Not the first time I had travelled, that was four or five years earlier as a baby, but my first memory of UTA/NIR is of a journey from York Road to Derry in 1967 or 1968. Sat in a compartment(?) on a long train at York Road, one of the occupants said there were eleven carriages(?) and tried to convince me they were being pulled by horses up front! A road parallel with the train as it sets off between hills and sea, what I now know as Bleach Green viaduct is passed then on through stations with odd names like Cullybackey and Dunloy, Ballymena and Ballymoney, a black round tower and lineside acronyms BNCR and NCC are pointed out to me by my father, someone leaning out the next window is grabbing loops and throwing bicycle handlebars(!) onto the platforms as we pass, streams cascading down Binevenagh, stopping at places like Bellarena and Limavady Junction in the middle of nowhere, crossing a runway! All fairly magical for a young boy.

Edited by NIR
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Posted (edited)

IMG_20190321_113703.thumb.jpg.8be6b7c7000f3c60407507c8f71d9de2.jpg

I can see some planishing will be required

IMG_20190321_113722.thumb.jpg.e5c131637d2284fe1ddeba74f0bf60c5.jpg

Or maybe not...

spacer.png

I already noticed the 70 Class power car  bogies look similar to the B5 bogies on the BR Class 123 'Swindon' so was delighted to notice the power car underfloor equipment looks similar to the BR Class 205 'Hampshire' (on one side at least), so maybe there are parts out there...

Edited by NIR
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3 hours ago, NIR said:

IMG_20190321_113703.thumb.jpg.8be6b7c7000f3c60407507c8f71d9de2.jpg

I can see some planishing will be required

IMG_20190321_113722.thumb.jpg.e5c131637d2284fe1ddeba74f0bf60c5.jpg

Or maybe not...

spacer.png

I already noticed the Class 70 power car  bogies look similar to the B5 bogies on the BR Class 123 'Swindon' so was delighted to notice the power car underfloor equipment looks similar to the BR Class 205 'Hampshire' (on one side at least), so maybe there are parts out there...

Hi just wondering where the Brass Class 70 etchings are available from?

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Posted (edited)

[I will use this as a holding page for something more detailed on the 70 Class build]

Worsley Works describes their 70 Class kit as: 57' E Type - 57' F type - 64' Power Car

The power cars (numbered 71-78) were all new build 1966-68. According to https://www.dropbox.com/s/b1gvs4usgmrgqei/Irish Lines Drawings Index (J.P.James%2C 1992).pdf

B type are number 702-3 intermediates (four compartment brake corridors)
E type are number 721-5 intermediates (seven compartment standard corridors)
F type are number 711-2 driving trailers (driving brake composite corridors)

These numbers cover all of the 1966-67 new build driving trailers/intermediates except for 701, which is also a four compartment brake corridor so 702-3 above looks like a misprint for 701-3. So while the Worsley Works etches make up a 3 car set typical of the new build there were a total of 8 power cars, 8 intermediates but just 2 driving trailers new built so this is not typical of a new build 70 Class set in operation let alone a set including the 2 flat-fronted driving trailer conversions from ex-NCC coaches, the 3 intermediates converted from an ex-NCC coach a BUT trailer and an MPD trailer, the NIR restaurant cars (2 MPD, 1 AEC) fitted for working with the 70 Class into the early 1970s and the various late 70s rebuilds including two intermediates converted into flat-fronted driving trailers and a more general conversion from side corridors to opens - but is rather a platonic ideal of the 70 Class. Nothing wrong with that, just some ideas for the detailing or future strengthening of the set.

Power cars have BR Mark 1 type underframes. Intermediate and driving trailers have LMS period 3 so maybe one Replica Railways 64' plus two Dapol 57' as victims. BR Class 205/207 (and NIR 80 Class) have the same underfloor equipment so the various bits should be available.

Power car bogies look like B5 with lateral dampers, maybe with elliptical rather than coil secondary springs causing the 'bulge'? - to steer poorly maintained out of gauge track presumably.

Note power car sliding drivers window (left-hand side, on driving trailer too?), drivers window edging (front and left-hand side, driving trailer too?), shallow lamp brackets (both ends) and front headlamp position (73 is inline with roof, 71 72 and 77 look modified higher), varying pattern of roof vents on intermediates and driving trailers (symmetrical are opens, asymmetrical are side corridors?) plus vertical guttering and filler pipes (for toilet next to cab) on front of driving trailers (Diesel Dawn, 175)

Edited by NIR

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Posted (edited)

The basic layout design/operation idea is that within the overall 6x1 the platform, loop and fiddle yard are all 2 foot nominal lengths so that all trains fit everywhere.

I noticed certain parallels with the micro concepts of inglenook and timesaver, and even Minories, but the closest parallel seems to be the goods yard of Gort, as modelled elsewhere on this subforum.

Thanks to the Gort trackplan I think I need to set the single track fiddle yard on the diagonal to get maximum track length and so allow the loop to stretch leftwards a little. Short radius points at each end of the loop also help the stretch, leaving plenty of room for a medium/long radius point on the main to help with the visual flow of its longer rolling stock.

So it's a shunting puzzle without the puzzle! I'm happy with that...

Edited by NIR
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Hi 

For underframe bits it might be worth checking with Precsion paints as the good gents took on kits and castings that originated from MTK  parts via NNK (IIRC) . DC kits thummpers used an etched sheet for much of the underdetails - suitable for "beefing up " with plasticard blocks to give depth and "mass. "

The 70 certainly looks battered - I had wondered on how to do edge of the  etch and did think about making use of a lima or Hornby Mk2 to get the radius on the corner and the tumblehome - but certainly some filler will be required !  One option is to solder some 5 mm or 6mm brass tube curved for the  tumblehomeand its natural diameter to give the front to side curve, but never tried this - but used copper wire in N to do the same effect, flooded  with solder and sanded back it was ok and very strong.

Robert   

 

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On 3/21/2019 at 11:46 AM, NIR said:

 

IMG_20190321_113722.thumb.jpg.e5c131637d2284fe1ddeba74f0bf60c5.jpg

Window-wise, this looks 70-class-ish. But the side profile wouldn’t be.....

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Hi , A few strokes of a file to remove the "hips" on the side to give a gentle Mk1 style bodyside would indeed help - something I never noticed.   It will look good on the layout that is for certain.

Robert   

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Posted (edited)

As it stands it does have a bit of a 'tilting train' profile but once it gets some curve to it the sides should come in quite a bit. I'm guessing the proof of this complex curve is when the front lies level on its back once again (the side ends are vertical so the front ends need to be vertical too). I'm planning to curve it using the continuous curves on the back of a 2" G clamp as a former and an old eraser as a hammer! Maybe crimp the edge around the two small radius curves with some pliers to shrink it, then work it again, anneal it again, gently does it.

Edited by NIR
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The BR Mk 1 profile also isn't quite right....that's the thing about modelling Irish passenger stock - apart from more modern stuff like Mk 2 and Mk 3, very little in Brexitland corresponds with anything here!

Having said that, of course anything can be adapted. An "end" piece can have its sides filed to correspond with most this side of the pond. The 70 class (and many types of laminates) curved in at the lower end, but were virtually or in some cases literally straight (vertical) on their upper sides.

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7 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

 Having said that, of course anything can be adapted. An "end" piece can have its sides filed to correspond with most this side of the pond. The 70 class (and many types of laminates) curved in at the lower end, but were virtually or in some cases literally straight (vertical) on their upper sides.

Great, that's something to bear in mind when I'm cutting away the donor bodyshells, to cut them fairly low on the sides to flatten their profile.

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Posted (edited)

Still in the rolling stock procurement phase so no civil engineering, but here is a visual concept.

X marks the vanishing point on the backscene. Hills and sea meet low down in the far distance as viewed from the right, viewed from the left the backscene is oblique to the viewer so there are no odd perspectives to hide, the backscene coming forward has done that job.

Moving right the vanishing point comes into view then zooms out, the distant featureless hillside working like a fractal at each scale, meeting a sinuous zone suggesting ground contours engineered along, trains emerging into the foreground with a pleasant sway.

Then a squared zone, corrugated RUC station with concrete sangar to the left and terraced house backs to the right, maybe set on a slight oblique so as to present more corner to the left. An opportunity to confine a different vanishing point, a watery grey town skyline, within the alley between the house backs and the RUC station.

Maybe the suggestion of a road emerging obliquely uphill from behind the corner onto the break between a rising foreground and a backscene of rising hills, just a line of real/painted lamp posts on the break, taking the precast concrete bridge over the hole in the backscene then sweeping towards the vanishing point.

Fields of fire from the sangar to follow...

Inkedballyshanenir_visuals.jpg.d69a755758e034b8ccd6a42909f2c75e.jpg

Edited by NIR
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