leslie10646 Posted December 28, 2024 Author Posted December 28, 2024 David I found the Peco set up pretty useless. Have I got this wrong, but I assume that I could only turn the wheels of a DCC loco with a DCC controller - hence those visits to the track? Quote
leslie10646 Posted December 28, 2024 Author Posted December 28, 2024 1 hour ago, Tullygrainey said: Leslie, if it’s the kit-built loco in your photo that’s causing the short, I would check if a brake shoe is touching a wheel somewhere. Easy to disturb these while cleaning wheels. Almost certainly right - I've brought it downstairs (the cleaning was done at my desk in the loft in iffy light, so I've probably recked havoc to all those sand pipes brake gear etc. While they look nice, they're maybe not so useful on a model? There IS a loose wire to boot! I'll report back! 1 Quote
Tullygrainey Posted December 28, 2024 Posted December 28, 2024 1 hour ago, leslie10646 said: David I found the Peco set up pretty useless. Have I got this wrong, but I assume that I could only turn the wheels of a DCC loco with a DCC controller - hence those visits to the track? Sorry Leslie, yes, I was thinking of DC powered locos when I mentioned the battery trick. Quote
leslie10646 Posted December 28, 2024 Author Posted December 28, 2024 (edited) The loose wire was a PICK-UP!!! Bent it back into place and the loco started working, after a fashion. Something is causing it to derail, more investigation required. Set her to one side, hoping to find another which would work! Frankly, an afternoon of frustration, I have at least six locos (all steam - you diesel freaks have it easy!) requiring attention. All brass hand made jobs and made by good guys. If you're going to run this type of loco you need a @Tullygrainey, @Galteemore, @David Holman or an @Andy Cundick living next door to you! I'm doing other things and will be away from the layout - probably the best for my sanity. IF (a very big IF) I ever build another layout, will someone remind me to make it smaller! Edited December 28, 2024 by leslie10646 4 1 Quote
David Holman Posted December 28, 2024 Posted December 28, 2024 Didn't realise it was DCC, Leslie. Despite all what is said, seems to me that analogue is simpler... 2 Quote
leslie10646 Posted January 13 Author Posted January 13 I'm surprised that no-one has posted what Santa brought them, probably because the Boys haven't delivered goodies for at least a couple of weeks. Anyway, this is one of my new toys. Rails of Sheffield were doing an offer I couldn't ignore, so I had one of my loved ones buy this for me. I chose this livery as it had least lettering (and the "stumble" is really nice) but could most easily be passed of as GNR. The real reason is awaited in the post - a delayed present! But isn't this just lovely? Originally NER, of course and the fastest steam age coach in British history, as she was behind Mallard on 3 July 1938. 7 1 Quote
Mol_PMB Posted January 13 Posted January 13 Very nice indeed. Perfect for comparing the performance of a V and a VS on the Enterprise? Or seeing what speed a WT is capable of? Santa brought me some of your kits and some of John's as well, which have been keeping me entertained. 2 Quote
Galteemore Posted January 13 Posted January 13 That’s beautiful Leslie. Would look very much at home behind a GN blue loco. 1 Quote
leslie10646 Posted January 13 Author Posted January 13 (edited) I'm waiting for Royal Mail to deliver the loco which is going to be tested! Edited January 13 by leslie10646 Quote
Mol_PMB Posted January 13 Posted January 13 Your post has got me thinking about what facilities there were in Ireland for testing locos quantitatively. Was there a dynamometer car or equivalent - perhaps as part of the Inchicore trial train? This vehicle looks like it's more than just a dead weight, but I've no idea if it had any instrumentation on board: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53509446540 The answer may be in the book about CC1; I'll have to have a look when I get home later. Quote
jhb171achill Posted January 13 Posted January 13 2 hours ago, Mol_PMB said: Your post has got me thinking about what facilities there were in Ireland for testing locos quantitatively. Was there a dynamometer car or equivalent - perhaps as part of the Inchicore trial train? This vehicle looks like it's more than just a dead weight, but I've no idea if it had any instrumentation on board: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53509446540 The answer may be in the book about CC1; I'll have to have a look when I get home later. I don't believe that there was - if so, my grandfather, who would have been very familiar with such things, never mentioned anything about it.... my late father did mention something, though, about fellas with stop watches on trial runs of 800 to Portlaoise in 1939, on which he hitched a lift.... 1 1 Quote
Mol_PMB Posted January 13 Posted January 13 1 hour ago, jhb171achill said: I don't believe that there was - if so, my grandfather, who would have been very familiar with such things, never mentioned anything about it.... my late father did mention something, though, about fellas with stop watches on trial runs of 800 to Portlaoise in 1939, on which he hitched a lift.... Indeed, there's no evidence of any instrumented vehicle in the description of the turf burner tests, which would surely have been a perfect opportunity for one to be used. 1 Quote
Horsetan Posted January 13 Posted January 13 17 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said: Indeed, there's no evidence of any instrumented vehicle in the description of the turf burner tests, which would surely have been a perfect opportunity for one to be used. Was there a dynamometer car available to the GSR/CIE network at that time? I can't remember ever reading about the existence of one. Quote
jhb171achill Posted January 13 Posted January 13 18 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said: Indeed, there's no evidence of any instrumented vehicle in the description of the turf burner tests, which would surely have been a perfect opportunity for one to be used. As far as I am aware, and certainly in the case of the 800 runs I mentioned above, Edgar Bredin and my grandfather, plus several others with various responsibilities for timetabling, loco allocation, and engineering matters (plus my dad, as a youth!), perhaps a dozen in total, travelled in a first class saloon, and apparently had nothing more than stopwatches and notebooks. Bridges had already been inspected prior to that, by persons and methods not recorded anywhere I am aware of. 1 minute ago, Horsetan said: Was there a dynamometer car available to the GSR/CIE network at that time? I can't remember ever reading about the existence of one. I don't believe such a thing ever existed anywhere in Ireland, unless the GNR had one at any time. 1 Quote
Galteemore Posted January 13 Posted January 13 (edited) All Irish loco performance seems to have been measured by stopwatch and standard water/coal calculations. Nock doesn’t seem to mention any such vehicle. Had there been one it would have assuredly appeared in photos of the 800s when on trial. Edited January 13 by Galteemore 2 Quote
jhb171achill Posted January 13 Posted January 13 (edited) 1 hour ago, Galteemore said: All Irish loco performance seems to have been measured by stopwatch and standard water/coal calculations. Nock doesn’t seem to mention any such vehicle. Had there been one it would have assuredly appeared in photos of the 800s when on trial. Indeed. Now that you mention it, Senior used to mention my grandfather poring over coal consumption and other related figures back in the day. While technically this has more to do with the mechanical engineering side than the role of a chief draughtsman, his early career was on the engineering side. When locos were new, or rebuilt or had various modifications made (e.g. a new TYPE of boiler), he often went out on trial runs. Why a draughtsman would get involved with that is beyond me. He drove and fired during a general strike in the mid-1910s, I’m very ashamed to say, and received £5 for his efforts. I am aware that in the 1915-18 period, he was very much involved in engineering matters, but Senior never knew the details, so I certainly don’t. But there it is. Edited January 13 by jhb171achill 2 Quote
leslie10646 Posted January 13 Author Posted January 13 A perusal of my IRRS Journal index produced no hits on "Locomotive testing" and only a dozen on testing bridges, clearances etc. There were the famous exchanges in 1911 which is covered by Bob Clements article in Volume 12, pages 281 - 301 (it's not as long as that as there is a considerable photo feature of GN locos in the middle of the piece). A lot of interesting detail, but apparently the GSWR took less interest in the exchange than the GNR. JB's Dad's recollection regarding coal consumption seems to be borne out by Bob's article - there was little in it between the QL and 321. 1 Quote
Mol_PMB Posted January 14 Posted January 14 The book on CC1 does give details on testing and the loco must have been instrumented with manometers and pyrometers to provide that data, which were presumably read manually and jotted down on paper. There’s no indication of measurements of drawbar pull, or of the continuous recording of data on a chart recorder, as would be expected with a dynamometer car. They seem to have been more interested in the enormous quantity of oil needed to replenish the motion, and the number of carriages set on fire by the exhaust! 2 1 Quote
jhb171achill Posted January 14 Posted January 14 7 hours ago, Mol_PMB said: The book on CC1 does give details on testing and the loco must have been instrumented with manometers and pyrometers to provide that data, which were presumably read manually and jotted down on paper. There’s no indication of measurements of drawbar pull, or of the continuous recording of data on a chart recorder, as would be expected with a dynamometer car. They seem to have been more interested in the enormous quantity of oil needed to replenish the motion, and the number of carriages set on fire by the exhaust! Evidently Mr Bullied was not a man who took criticism well, and was not at all happy with the less positive comments following trial runs of that thing! And MOST of the comments were less than positive…..! Quote
leslie10646 Posted January 14 Author Posted January 14 I don't know why he was fussed criticism of "That Thing", as this man (and another) did the detailed design! More later, I'm doing housework and sat down for a rest! 4 Quote
leslie10646 Posted January 14 Author Posted January 14 I've done a talk to the RPSI about Ron Pocklington (pictured above) who was seconded to Inchicore with John Click. They both were employed at the Rugby Testing Station. at the time. Oliver Bulleid asked Roland Bond (then CME of BR) for a couple of guys to test the Turf Burner. He sent Ron and John. They arrived to find that the locomotive DID NOT EXIST! There were water tanks, a boiler (which the boiler inspectors were unimpressed with) and that was about that. Ron who was an engineering graduate and John, whose practical steam knowledge was of the top rank. Together they sat down and did all the detailed design using the Leader as a basis. Oliver and the Inchicore Drawing Office took little notice as they were up to their eyes with getting the "A" Class to work. The Blessed Oliver did ride "his" engine, but I don't think it was in steam - this was a "riding trial. This the team which did the erecting on a Saturday afternoon! More follows, but a bit more like one of JB's tall tales. I have to get something out of a box. 7 Quote
leslie10646 Posted January 14 Author Posted January 14 First of all I need one of @WRENNEIRE's videos about getting things out of the box! This was just the outer wraps! Now off to the loft and try it out! 1 Quote
Horsetan Posted January 14 Posted January 14 6 hours ago, jhb171achill said: Evidently Mr Bullied was not a man who took criticism well, and was not at all happy with the less positive comments following trial runs of that thing! And MOST of the comments were less than positive…..! Actually no. Bulleid wasn't that fussed - if anything, he welcomed different ideas. It was John Click.who liked having his own way, and brooked no opposition from anyone. It was his way, or no way. 2 1 Quote
jhb171achill Posted January 14 Posted January 14 Had jhbSeniorx2 still been in the Drawing Office, I think he'd be weeping buckets into his porridge at that sight or thought of that thing...... Quote
Mol_PMB Posted January 14 Posted January 14 4 minutes ago, jhb171achill said: Had jhbSeniorx2 still been in the Drawing Office, I think he'd be weeping buckets into his porridge at that sight or thought of that thing...... Just imagine a whole fleet of them, maybe interspersed with a few twin-engined Sulzer monsters! Some of the planned smaller turf-burner variants with B-B wheel arrangement for the branch lines. And a fleet of Drumm battery trains for the suburban services. Everything painted silver! 1 Quote
Horsetan Posted January 14 Posted January 14 7 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said: .... Everything painted silver! ...and turning grubby within weeks! 1 Quote
jhb171achill Posted January 14 Posted January 14 1 hour ago, Mol_PMB said: Just imagine a whole fleet of them, maybe interspersed with a few twin-engined Sulzer monsters! Some of the planned smaller turf-burner variants with B-B wheel arrangement for the branch lines. And a fleet of Drumm battery trains for the suburban services. Everything painted silver! Now THAT would give him indigestion as well, not to mention a bad case of the Vapours, the Critical Collywobbles, Heeby-Jeebys and Multiple Conniptions.... 1 Quote
leslie10646 Posted January 14 Author Posted January 14 (edited) AND NOW FOR SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT..... When the Blessed Oliver heard that The Leader prototype was going to be broken up, he contacted Roland Bond about acquiring it at scrap value. He knew that he was going to be obliged to produce a Turf Burner and thought that he could make use of his earlier prototype, if only to learn lessons from it. Inchicore regauged it and after she had been run in "Down South", Bulleid got the loan of the NER Dynamometer Car (regauging it for the duration) and sent it off on gauging trials. For it's runs on the GNR(I), their management obliged with a set of mahogany coaches to match the Dino. This is one beautiful loco - I'm doing the twenty minutes forwards and then backwards, but thought I'd take a few photies of her arriving at Portadown. Then alongside the brand new A Class which Oliver had sent up top rescue it if it broke down! And in motion - turn the SOUND UP - it really is this quiet! IMG_1272.MOV I got the idea that the lads at IRM had a low opinoi0n of Kr Models - well this loco will take a bit of beating when you bring out your Turf Burner! Now off to do the rest of the running in! First impressions - DELIGHTED! Edited January 14 by leslie10646 5 Quote
jhb171achill Posted January 14 Posted January 14 I wonder would a Crossley rescue it - or would it be the other way round! Or - I have visions of an ageing SG3 hauling both in disgrace south past Howth Junction..... 5 Quote
leslie10646 Posted January 15 Author Posted January 15 I know that @WRENNEIRE is a stickler for running in new locos, so I obeyed the manufacturer's instructions and ran it twenty minutes each way at varying speeds. It runs very fast indeed, much faster than the real thing. Anyway, with trepidation, I hooked it up to the test train and it just walked away with six coaches. This is a slow speed pass from two angles, returning from Armagh and passing the "Thunderbird" A Class which wasn't needed. Don't these bogie locos run a lot better and with less hassle than steam (did I really say that?)? IMG_1277.MOV IMG_1278.MOV A GAA special of six wheelers with my pseudo Turf Burner will be my next flight of fantasy. 3 Quote
leslie10646 Posted January 15 Author Posted January 15 17 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said: Nice! Hopefully the wheels won’t fall off. Yes, I saw that review too. I hope not, I spent an hour running it in! 1 Quote
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