NIR 621

[K801]

Hello,

I was wondering what this coach is and what it was used for?

( Image from public ebay, mods please delete if posting is not allowed)

[Midland Man]

Looks like the NCC railcar

[Galteemore]

It’s one of those, I think, converted as a parcels coach looking at the doors. Classic 70s York Road.

[jhb171achill]

This is an ex-GNR AEC or BUT car, one of several thus converted, along with a couple of ex-UTA "MED" centre cars from 1951.

These - between the two types I think there were about half a dozen of them - were used for a very short time on parcels and mail traffic between York Road and Larne Harbour, and mail between Belfast and Porteeeedown. I saw an MED one just twice in Lisburn, tacked onto the back of an ordinary railcar set (of which type, I cannot recall). They were painted standard NIR maroon, as seen to the right of it; the same shade, incidentally, as used on the upper parts of the 80 class and "Enterprise" stock of 1970.

The very last ex-NCC railcar was withdrawn, I believe, in 1965.

[Noel]

Yea looks very like an AEC intermediate coach

[Midland Man]

Is there a NCC railscar at whitehead?

[Galteemore]

https://www.steamtrainsireland.com/rpsi-collection/42/railcar-1

[jhb171achill]

12 minutes ago, Midland Man said:

Is there a NCC railscar at whitehead?

Yes, No. 1. Built 1934 (I think) and withdrawn by the UTA 1965.

 

36 minutes ago, Noel said:

Yea looks very like an AEC intermediate coach

It's a power car with the cab blocked off.

What they did when the last of these were withdrawn and replaced by the new 80 class, was to clear out the cab - exactly the same way CIE did with the similar cars used laterally as push-pull sets on Dundalk - Bray services. Two or three anyway were used for a short time about 1969-73(?) as loco hauled passenger stick  with cabs blocked off like that. I think the driver's compartment might have now been used to put things like prams in. After that, this one and possibly one other had the seats removed and some windows blocked, for a couple of years' further use for the purpose stated. They may have got to Derry as well in this guise as parcels vans tacked onto the back of 70-class railcar sets.

I daresay that like their CIE counterparts they had asbestos insulation. If that was the case, they'll be lying at the bottom of water-filled Crosshill Quarry in Co. Antrim at this stage, I would think.

[airfixfan]

Railcar 1 built 1933 at York Road and not withdrawn until 1968 along with all other earlier NCC/UTA railcard

 621 was cut up at Ballymena in 1983 and was often seen on the Larne line. It was converted from AEC railcar 618 about 1974 after withdrawal in 1972.

[Lambeg man]

Deleted post

Edited April 8, 2020 by Lambeg man

[airfixfan]

The details given are correct for the other converted AEC railcar which was renumbered 622 not 612. Thought that was 621 in the photo and ex GNR 618 then 120 originally.

 Ex GNR 727 railcar trailer originally GNR 127 then 556 survived into NIR passenger service until 1982.

Edited April 8, 2020 by airfixfan

[airfixfan]

After posting remembered to check where I have seen that photo before. Found it in 35 years of NIR on 38 with a similar photo of 621. The caption is wrong but correct for 622 which were both converted in 1973 and air fitted to work with the 70 class. In the table in back of 35 years book gives the same information on these conversions as all my other sources!

[Lambeg man]

You are correct Airfixfan. The vehicle in the above photograph entered service in 20/4/1952 as GNR(I) AEC Railcar No. 618. In 1958 it passed to the UTA who renumbered it No. 120. After withdrawal by NIR as a power car in August 1972 it was altered to the un-powered parcels van and renumbered No. 621. It appears it was used entirely on the NCC section, carting parcels between Larne Harbour and Derry/Londonderry.

Vacuumed braked as a Railcar, it will be seen in the photograph it has been fitted with air brakes as a parcels van. In the photograph (taken by Jonathan Allen) it is being shunted of the back of a service just arrived from Derry/Londonderry.

A similar conversion was carried on the former GNR(I) AEC Railcar No. 606. In 1958 it passed to the UTA who renumbered it No. 114. After withdrawal by NIR as a power car in September 1972 it was altered to a similar un-powered parcels van you see in the photograph and renumbered No. 622. It was likewise withdrawn in 1983.

Both vehicles were officially withdrawn in 1983, making them the very last vehicles BUILT FOR the GNR(I) to technically remain in 'company' service.

[DiveController]

6 hours ago, airfixfan said:

After posting remembered to check where I have seen that photo before. Found it in 35 years of NIR on 38 with a similar photo of 621. The caption is wrong but correct for 622 which were both converted in 1973 and air fitted to work with the 70 class. In the table in back of 35 years book gives the same information on these conversions as all my other sources!

Late to this thread but recognized that photo and thought it was from Flickr initially until I saw your post. Interesting that it is on eBay it is has been copyrighted to a publication...

Edited April 8, 2020 by DiveController

[Lambeg man]

It appears most of Jonathan Allen's stuff is on E-Bay. You can buy copies of his photographs (which are the same as those on his Flickr account) BUT the selling notice states that the copyright is retained by him.

[airfixfan]

The photo in the NIR book  on page 38 (with the incorrect caption)  is taken from a slightly different angle to the photo on Ebay but obviously taken on the same date. These parcel Van's were usually seen on boat trains to/from Larnr in the good old days!

Edited April 9, 2020 by airfixfan

[K801]

ebay is actually a good source for oddball photos, lots of 121 and A class photos, maybe worth of a separate trend ( if allowed) Here's another cracker

[airfixfan]

Would appear to be AEC 111 in UTA regional livery was ex GNR 603. The location is what is puzzling me at the minute. Any other ideas anyone?

[Galteemore]

Grosvenor Road goods yard.

[airfixfan]

Possibly but not scrapped until 1973 still in blue and cream in Antrim yard.

[jhb171achill]

4 hours ago, Galteemore said:

Grosvenor Road goods yard.

Exactly, yes.

I remember that one well, travelled in it too......111 and I think also 113 were the only ones I recall in that short-lived blue and cream.

[Lambeg man]

Jon,

My notes record the following AEC (ex-GNR) Railcars getting the narrow band (suburban) version of the 'GN Regional' livery, No's 111, 115 and 117. However No. 118 got the deeper band (express) version. The remaining five, including No. 113 went direct from UTA 'green' to the standard NIR livery. The reason No. 111 was still in the blue/cream livery of 1965 when scrapped I have been informed, was because it had been plundered for spares post 1967, to keep the others running.

[jhb171achill]

111 & 115

[airfixfan]

My notes say 111 was withdrawn in 1969 and was the only AEC scrapped in this short lived livery variation.

[jhb171achill]

Sometimes a withdrawal date and an actual scrapping date can be years apart - witness B114 and the line of B101s at Inchicore during the 1970s and 80s, and G601, which spent double the amount of time it was in traffic, withdrawn but sitting upended at the end of the scrap line in Inchicore!

The SLNCR by 1957 had all sorts of tumbledown antiques stuffed in sidings at Manorhamilton.....

[airfixfan]

If 111 was withdrawn in 1969 would confirm Grovesnor Road where it appears to have become a Xmas tree! Photos of 111 in this livery in Young page 95 in 1966. Same for 117 in Allen page 36 in 1968 and 115 in Flanagan page 100 as late as 1969.

[jhb171achill]

On ‎4‎/‎9‎/‎2020 at 12:02 PM, K801 said:

ebay is actually a good source for oddball photos, lots of 121 and A class photos, maybe worth of a separate trend ( if allowed) Here's another cracker

I have been in touch today with an old friend, who would know chapter and verse on these beasts. This from him:

"......................the photo of 111 is in Antrim GN yard. That is the exact spot where that car was cut up by Hamills. The building behind is the bus garage and the area is now part of the bus depot......."

 

[airfixfan]

Yes indeed it that was obvious that I missed it first time. A lot of AEC and some other coaches and railcars ended up in the goods yards of Antrim and Ballymena.

[jhb171achill]

4 minutes ago, airfixfan said:

Yes indeed it that was obvious that I missed it first time. A lot of AEC and some other coaches and railcars ended up in the goods yards of Antrim and Ballymena.

Correct, and I recall seeing a pile of oul non-corridor coaches there some years earlier, and a whole lot of redundant MEDs some years afterwards! Seems Antrim goods yard was a rolling stock dump for a long time.....

[Galteemore]

On 4/10/2020 at 5:31 PM, jhb171achill said:

 

The SLNCR by 1957 had all sorts of tumbledown antiques stuffed in sidings at Manorhamilton.....

.....and in traffic!!