David Holman

Love how ornate the early ones were, with fancy lettering and buttons. Shades of footmen for the rich and well heeled. From a modelling point of view, it is the basic colours that matter most. Don't suppose there's a list/guide available?

Bogie and Pony Not an interesting name for a pub, just the next stage in the Kerr Stuart's chassis, with a fair bit of faffing and fiddling along the way. Both units are simple fold up etches, though in the case of the bogie, one side broke off while I was folding it. Not to worry though, because it turned out that it was a tad too wide, so I filed a bit off before soldering it back. The Gibson wheels are on 2mm axles, so it was just as well I had some 2mm brass wire, along with the right bearings. The outer plate, on the left. is intended to fit in slots on the side frames, but doing this means it fouls the wheels, so had to adjust that. The etches have a bogie pivot plate, so that was soldered on, as were four pieces of square section brass tube as part of fabricating the outside axles boxes. There are several spare frame spacers in the etches, so used one of these as mounting point for the bogie swivel, putting it just in front of the leading drivers. Notice how the bogie frame spacer has a slot filed in it. This is to go over an 8BA bolt soldered in the main frame spacer. Tried using another spacer for the pony swivel, but this fouled the rear drivers, so made a new one from some brass strip, which sits on top of the frames, just clearing the rear drivers. Looks like I'll need to line the inside of the frames with 10thou plastic to avoid the pony wheels shorting out. Both bogie and pony are full of lead, hopefully to help them stay on the track. At the moment, both units appear to sit nicely, but no doubt adjustment will be needed. Indeed, already had to cut away sections of the front frames to clear the bogie wheels. On the real locos, it looks like the pony wheels lived in some sort of radial axle boxes. On the model, they pivot inside the frames, with etches enabling you to build up dummy axles boxes on the outside of the frames. There are four separate layers to give a nice bit of depth. Was hoping to find some white metal castings to represent the outside axle boxes on the bogie, but couldn't find anything suitable, either on line or in the scrapbox. So went back to John Ahern's book for ideas & realised that with that square section brass tube & some plasticard, I could make a reasonable representation, as shown below. I could do with thickening up the dummy equalising beam between the two boxes, as this looks a lot heftier than a single layer of nickel silver provided in the etches. Anyway, so far, so good, though I'm not kidding myself that it is all going to work first time of asking. Need to fit the pickups and wire up the motor first, but at least there is plenty of space to fit these and likewise room in the bodywork for extra weight if required. For now at least, the chassis appears to sit nicely on the track.

That is just lovely.

Thanks John and also useful to see how you arrange the bogie and pony swivels too. Reassuring to know that folk with your experience and expertise also have these challenges. Did wonder if I'd need to reverse the crankpin bush, but there is just about enough room - with a slight crank to the conrod. At least the position of the bogie on the Kerr Stuart is largely out of the way of the cylinders, because it is inside the frames, though as the next job, that may yet try to bite me. Hats off to the P4/S7 and 2FS folk. Really can't contemplate working to such fine tolerances!

It's been a hard day's night - and I've been working like a dog. Well, not quite, but I do at last have a smoothly working chassis for the Kerr Stuart. After that previous post, I sat down and made a list of all the things that needed attending to, then stripped everything off the chassis to go through it all bit by bit. Started by moving out the slidebars, so the crossheads would not foul the leading crankpins and at the same time moved the position of the motion brackets forwards so the crankpins didn't foul them either. While I was at it added the cross wires for the top brake hangers, leaving the latter loose until the wheels were fitted. Thought it was time to add the motor to the gear box and then refitted the wheels, adding the retaining wires to the horn blocks, so nothing falls out. I'd hoped to add the etches depicting the actual horn blocks, but even after significant thinning down with a file, there just isn't room, so they will have to be omitted. Fortunately, the cranks will mostly hide this, especially with everything painted black. Did drill holes for the underslung springs to eventually be fitted. Before this, I'd sprayed the chassis with primer & then matt black So far, so good, but that was the easy bit, as the last week has been spent fettling and fine tuning the chassis. As I'd said earlier, clearances are tight all over the place. The slidebars need to be set so the crosshead works smoothly and doesn't foul the motion bracket and the piston rod doesn't hit the cylinder. Fag paper clearances here, as shown above. The front crankpin nuts needed to be filed really thin, with the base of the crankpin bearings similarly thinned to a minimum. Both the front and centre cranks are fitted close to the frames, to give minimal side play. The rear cranks allow about a millimetre each each way and this also helps the fact that the slide bars have had to be set so they are gently angle away from the frames - again to clear the front crosshead. This at least allows the piston rod to be in the centre of the cylinder, the common alternative to this is to place it off centre. Annoyingly, despite the coupling rods working nicely on the ends of the axles, once the cranks were fitted, things got tight, so a lot of time has been spent gradually opening out the holes in the rods, which meant repeatedly taking them on and off - risking the wrath of the carpet monster should I drop any of the 12ba fixing nuts and washers, both of which I have very few spares at the moment! Finally, about 5pm this afternoon, everything was at last running smoothly. The temptation to pour a stiff drink and then lie in a darkened room for a while was considerable!

Took hours to get that squeak right! Was it really that long ago and I obviously didn't know of your models at the time, Alan, otherwise operations would have to have been suspended while I learned more.

Forgot about both of these. Shame on me, as I have both! Excellent books.

The Alphagraphix card kit is worthwhile and very cheap. The Worsley Works etches are a decent start, but no instructions or chassis. It is 7mm scale and I first built it as the original Atkinson Walker steam tractor for my Clogher Valley project. Got quite a bit of information, which starts on page 14 of David's Work bench in that section of this forum. It is since been remodelled as Phoenix, which you can find on page 35, while there are photos in the Layouts section under Clogher Valley Project.

Sounds like, indeed already starting to look like a very good thing. Have fond memories of the County Down tank as it was on the turntable at Cultra when I took Arigna Town there and the layout pitch was right in front.

Mine will be No10. From what I've read, livery (in the late 1940s) will be unlined, dark green, with red coupling rods and no lettering

The Swilly had Hudswell Clarke and Hawthorn Leslie 4-6-2Ts, though unlikely I'll be building them as they are too big for my turntable, but can't think of any other lines that had Pacifics. This week, I've managed to, sort of, get the chassis together, but clearance problems are everywhere. First up, there's the usual problem of outside cylinders being very close to the crankpins of the lead drivers. I've slimmed down the crankpins as much as possible, but things are still tight at the moment, so I may well need file down the the outside cranks as well. On the Barclay 4-6-0T, I had the frame spacers much narrower, but can't do that with the removable horn blocks. Even with the slimline High Level versions, they still take up a couple of millimetres, plus experience with the Barclay chassis taught me I need a millimetre of side play on the rear drivers, while the dummy outside springs need another as well. As you can see, the cylinders, slider bars and motion brackets have been added, though at times I've wondered if it would have been easier to make these myself, as the etchings have needed a lot of work. The cylinders and motion bracket were a single etch, designed to fit into slots in the frames, once folded up. However, this would have been way too narrow to clear the cranks, while the motion plate section fouls the driving wheels. Hence cut out the centre section and mounted them separately on each side. The motion bracket has needed a fair bit of fettling too and I've had to mount it slightly forward of the etched position as the front outside cranks were fouling it. The slide bars were similarly awkward. I think they were designed to be a folded up unit, but again, I decided to cut them up and assemble them separately. Indeed, if I'd had the right section brass strip to hand, I would have used that instead. It is perfectly possible that the Slater's outside cranks are too big for how the etches were drawn. However, Gibson 4mm scale cranks are too small, while I certainly don't want to make my own. Overall, the hornblock/bearings are proving their worth, as while trying to sort out clearances, the wheels have been in & out multiple times and fingers crossed, this is keeping the driving wheels tight on their axles. So, lots more fettling needed, but getting there. The picture below is upside down, because the bearing retaining wires aren't fitted at the moment and I don't want the wheels to fall out!

Thanks Alan, should have remembered about them, though right now suffering from serious brain ache after grappling with the basics of the chassis. As I've already said, many times, there are numerous issues when building an outside framed chassis, the main one being able to remove the wheels and motor/gearbox, both as part of ongoing construction and future maintenance. With the Barclay 4-6-0T, these are locked in and were a right pain too, especially trying to fit the wheels inside the frames. Therefore, resolved to dot better this time. The obvious way seemed to be to make cut outs in the frames, to take High Level horn blocks. The brain ache came from investigating whether I could incorporate suspension/compensation as well - given that is what these things are made for. The High Level beam springs are very clever, but would make removing the wheels very difficult. Sharman style compensation would probably have worked except for the fact that I needed to put the motor on the middle axle because mounting it on the rear one gets in the way on the pony truck. Geoff Kent's books offered other options, while in the course of my investigations I came across the CLAG papers. These cover the whole science of springing and compensation, but as I don't have A Level physics, most of it went straight over my head! So, in the end, the chassis is unsprung, with the horn blocks there simply to allow easy removal of the wheels. After deciding which of the half dozen frame spacers to use, I first tack soldered the frames together, so I could cut out rectangles for the horn blocks. These are 6mm wide and extend 4mm above the centre line of the axles. Once the frames were separated and cleaned up, I assembled them with spacers at each end with another in the centre, though this may need moving as other bits are added. The axles came next, Slater's coach/wagon ones, to which I added square section brass tube, which was then filed down to fit in the outside cranks. This nicely takes care of the all important quartering. High Level horn blocks are neat, if rather fiddly for a 7mm scale modeller like me, while fitting them needed much thought too. Rightly or wrongly, I used my Poppies Woodtech jig to set up the middle axle, then used two springs to hold the outer horn blocks in place, while I fitted the coupling rods. These were held with hair clips and [after checking multiple times to everything was square] soldered the remaining four horn blocks in place. I could then take out the square, brass bearings and fit the wheels, which go inside them. With the wheels back in the chassis, I then held my breath as I put the chassis on the track to find that all the wheels were turning - meaning everything was level. Phew! Crank pins and their bearings could now be added, along with the coupling rods, followed by another test on the track with happily, no signs of any binding. Double phew!! There's still lots more challenges, with the cylinder/crosshead/conrod unit to add, plus the bogie and pony wheels, all of which have the potential to cause me pain. However, it has been good to get this part done and while waiting for the horn blocks to arrive, I got the basics of the bodywork started, so I have a reasonable idea of how this will fit with the chassis.

Agreed. It is one thing to make a drawing, because that only involves thinking in two dimensions. Kit design means thinking in three, which is a whole extra level of visualisation and ramps up the number of variables considerably!

I've got one in 7mm scale that went together well enough. It uses Delrin chain and gears to give four wheel drive. Must be on my Workshop thread, but you'll have to go back a bit to find it.

Little and often works well for me, as does the maxim of stop while you are winning, though still don't always remember that.

Looks good to me Leslie! An article in the latest MRJ shows that there were significant scaffolding type structures inside water tanks - all to do with the enormous weight pressing on the sides of the tanks. Fairly sure not many of us, me included, put such things in our models. Probably boils down to not seeing into the tanks from ground level, though where our models are concerned, the view is reversed as we are mostly looking down on them.

Impressive stuff!

That works well! As for that poster, am sure we all know how many ears Mr Spok has. It's three of course : left ear, right ear and final frontier.

Kerr Stuart 4-6-2T Couldn't resist the thought of a new project any longer, so this morning sat down to evaluate what I need to do to get started. Having a set of parts is nice, but without any instructions, in effect you need to devise your own and as already mentioned in a previous post, work out what else you need. Found a scale drawing from the 7mm Narrow Gauge Society, though unfortunately not all the dimensions agree with the etchings. Nothing too drastic though, so guess I'll stick with what arrived. Those of you familiar with my Barclay Tank adventure will know the chassis caused me a LOT of grief, so decided I really needed a better plan of attack this time, starting with an oversized drawing to check clearances and so on: A good two hours was spent with ruler and vernier gauge checking parts and materials, from which I discovered, among other things that: The frame spacers at 29.2mm wide exactly match standard 0 gauge wheel back to backs. This is interesting, because the 0 gauge wagon axles I use with the Gibson driving wheels have nice extensions on them that will take square section brass tube to fit in the Slater's outside cranks, which helps with quartering the wheels. It is also a bit of a shame, because I discovered some Slater's 1/8" 0 gauge axles which fit nicely in the cranks and would have given perfect quartering with zero effort. Unfortunately, they are shorter than the wagon axles and would have made clearances far too tight. I really can't go through the hassle of trying to fit the Gibson drivers inside the frames as per the Barclay. Hence have sent off to High Level Kits for a set of horn blocks, so wheels and axles can be dropped out of the frames for painting etc. This does mean though that I need to find a way to make those dratted underslung dummy springs removable. A further point here is that talking to Dart Castings at the Tonbridge Show yesterday, it seems High Level could be the only supplier left for 4mm scale horn blocks. Dart can't get the square brass bearings, while Markits future is very much in doubt following the recent death of the proprietor... I fear the cylinder etching is too narrow. As the photo shows, it comes out as about 45mm, whereas the footplate is 54mm wide and the cylinders go right to the edge. They need to as well, to give space for the slide bars and con rods as can be seen from my drawing above. Without doing all this preparation, building the chassis would be fraught to say the least - been there and got the T shirts [plural] after all. However, it has helped me get my head round things and while I'm waiting for the horn blocks to arrive, I can get on with some of the bodywork, not least the footplate where it is important to find out where some of the spacers on the etch might fit and how they relate to where the motor/gearbox, body fixing points, bogie and pony wheels etc fit. As ever, life is complicated - which is why it is fun. Allegedly...

Still a bit more titivating needed, but the two Swilly bogies have made good progress. Hand lettering [white gel pen] and a few transfers, plus some weathering [enamels and powders], completes the scene, so have paired them up with the Barclay, below: Have also decided to have another go at trying to fabricate a cosmetic addition to the tension lock couplings to make them look a bit more like narrow gauge choppers. Just bits and pieces of plasticard, arranged to go on the inside of the buffing plate. A bit crude, but once stuck in place, with a bit of judicious filing and painted black, they are a reasonable upgrade. That said, in the latest Gauge 0 Guild Gazette, EDM Models have announced they are taking on production of the Zamzoodle Chopper couplings, which are much more accurate and can be made to work automatically too. If they are not too expensive, I could be tempted.

Don't forget that perceived colour depends on all sorts of things - weather, light/shadow, age, cleaning (or not), even the size of a model. For sure we want to get things as close as possible, but suspect that absolute fidelity is unlikely. Don't forget too that gentlemen's perception of colour, especially greens, deteriorates with age and we should defer to the fair sex on such matters. Scares the bejaysus out of me when my wife asks for my opinion on colour matching! She really ought to know by now...

The latest, March, edition of RM has a Scottish theme and there is a really interesting article on small space layout ideas, including the loco shed at Kyle of Localsh. It would make quite a nice small Irish model too, complete with a turntable, of course!

When Clogher Valley wagons became Donegal 'red', they fitted larger wheels as the 2' ones, while fine for CVR speeds, weren't up to the higher ones on the Donegal.

See my latest Workshop thread for an appraisal of a new set of Worsley etches.

A short pause on the Swilly bogies, because the Worsley Works etches for my next loco arrived today. Much as I would like to dive in and get started, the first thing you always need to do with Worsley stuff is to work out what all the etches represent and then make a list of all the other things you need, so for anyone interested in Worsley products, hopefully the following might help. First, the loco itself. This will be a Lough Swilly 4-6-2T, built by Kerr Stuart, as shown below. Unlike my previous Barclay 4-6-0T, this set of etches includes the chassis - or most of it anyway. First lets look at the frames: Nickel silver - nice - for all the etches, although unfortunately the holes for the axle bearings are 3/16" [0 gauge] and I'm using Gibson wheels on 1/8" axles, because, as far as I can tell the correct 3'6 wheels are not available to go with the extended axles needed for outside frames. Hence, am thinking I will need to plate over & fill the current holes somehow so I can fit 1/8 bearings. Next we have the frame spacers and etches for the rear pony truck and front bogie. Mostly ok, though the spacers are 4'3 wide and [after several rebuilds] those on my Barclay are now 3'9, so looks like things will need cutting down a bit here. Always nice to have the coupling and connecting rods. Also on this fret is a one piece etch for the cylinder/motion bracket, plus the slide bars too. Real timer savers here, compared to making things from scratch. The fourth chassis etch has overlays for the outside frames [driving wheels] and what I think is the pony truck, along with the brakes. So far, so good. What you don't get are: Wheels - the aforementioned Gibsons, including bogie and pony Motor & gear box, from High Level Outside cranks from Slaters Slater's 0 gauge wagon axles for the driving wheels - see the section on the Barclay as to why. Axles box castings for the bogie. Ideas welcome here! Now for the bodywork: First is the footplate etch, which also contains the buffer beams, a couple of etches for the firebox inside the cab, along with cylinder ends and a pair of steps. The main body etches are the cab/tank sides, cab front/rear, smoke box frame & wrapper, bunker rails and a sand box. We also have some useful beading for the cab and tank tops, plus rings for the spectacle plates - though quite what the two square etches, top left, are I'm not sure. Suggestions welcome! Finally we have a bit of a mystery etch. Cab roof and bunker rear, plus the other sandbox are fairly obvious, as are the two front frame extensions, top right. No idea what the two rectangles below these are for, while I fear the large rectangle on the left is a bit of a bodge, posing as a filler between the tanks, as per the Barclay. You may have noticed there is no sign of a boiler! This will probably be rolled from a piece of flat sheet, though it may be possible to use a piece of tube. Also needed is the following: Smoke box door & 'dart' Chimney, dome, safety valves & whistle Tank filler caps Lamp irons Vacuum pipes Tool box Jack Brake cylinder Cab detail, including brake standard, reversing lever, gauges etc Builders plates No doubt I'll find more! However, while it may look like a lot, these etches take away an awful lot of measuring and cutting, though I must get those two bogie vehicles finished first!