Mol_PMB

Many thanks for your kind words! I think there are lots of interesting stations in Ireland and a personal connection with somewhere is certainly a strong influence. My intention is that it would be 21mm gauge. By using a traverser fiddle yard I can avoid a lot of points, and perhaps would only need 5 or 6 points on the scenic part of the layout. Of course, the trackplan at Ennis evolved over time, and as you say there was once the narrow gauge side too. That disappeared pretty quickly in the early 1960s. Ennis had a significant rebuild in the mid-1970s which involved closing the north signal cabin and simplifying the remaining layout, while adding a new container gantry and goods store to suit large quantities of palletised traffic. Affter that it didn't change much until the 'Western Rail Corridor' rebuilds in the early 2000s. So the infrastructure could represent a range of periods from the end of the loose-coupled freight era in the mid 1970s up to the 1990s. Later I'll collate some photos and plans to show the basic layout at that time. To add to my previous analysis of the Working Timetables in my collection, today I found this interesting description of the gradual re-introduction of passenger services at Ennis in the 1980s: https://branchline.uk/rail_chronology/Ennis.html As well as giving details of dates and workings, this confirms that some of the trains ran direct through to Dublin, others to/from Limerick Junction or Ballybrophy. Some of the direct Ennis-Dublin services comprised lengthy Mk2 AC stock sets, although the one I travelled on was a Cravens set. From looking at photos, there was another occasional freight traffic throughout the 1970s-1990s period - individual fuel oil tankers to the Ennis bus depot in the old loco shed. These could be added to the Ennis liner or other suitable freight. Also, in the mid 1970s the fertiliser trains could be formed of 'back-to-back' swapbodies on 4-wheel flat wagons, rather than the more familiar bogie fertiliser wagons. Thanks! You're right, I do really enjoy the research as well as the modelmaking. It's fascinating to learn about what really happened, as well as about what nearly happened, and sometimes the 'might-have-beens' are more appealing than a model based on a real station which will inevitably have compromises. I look forward to seeing what you come up with!

Many thanks - it's good to hear about your experiences as these were some of my concerns about the use of the loft space. I do have one friend who has built a large and complex model railway in his loft, but he put a lot of work into insulating and fitting it out, including a velux window for summer ventilation. It's set fairly low down, ideal to operate and view from a seated position, which partly overcomes the headroom issue, and I would probably do the same. It's a lot of work before even starting to build the model railway! But it doesn't stop me planning...

My childhood memories of Ennis in the mid 80s to early 90s, not all the same year but don't ask me exacly when!

My newest Working Timetable commences July 1990. By this time, there was a twice-weekly passenger service as far as Ennis, in addition to the freights. There are clearly some freight paths which wouldn’t work on Tuesdays and Thursdays when the passenger train runs, although in most cases this isn’t explicitly stated in the WTT. There are few, if any, occasions when more than one train is at Ennis. On weekdays, the trains at Ennis in 1990 can be summarised as follows: Train Arr Dep Dir’n Days Loco Limerick – Mayo bagged cement path 06:27 06:27 NB As req’d 001 Limerick – Ennis empty passenger 07:10 NB Tues, Thurs 141 Ennis – Limerick passenger 07:45 SB Tues, Thurs 141 Limerick – Athenry bulk cement path 07:27 07:27 NB As req’d 001 Limerick – Ennis Liner 08:30 NB Mon Wed Fri 141 Ennis – Limerick light engine 08:45 SB Mon Wed Fri 141 Limerick – Ennis Liner 09:30 NB Tues, Thurs 141 Ennis – Limerick light engine 09:45 SB Tues, Thurs 141 Limerick – Mayo fertiliser path 09:57 09:57 NB As req’d 001 Athenry – Limerick empty cement path 12:49 12:49 SB As req’d 001 Galway – Ennis bagged cement path 14:01 SB As req’d 001 Foynes – Ballina coal and oil 14:42 14:42 NB Mon 001 Limerick – Ennis light engine 15:50 NB Mon-Fri 141 Ennis – Limerick Liner 16:00 SB Mon-Fri 141 Galway – Limerick empty cement path 16:17 17:00 SB As req’d 001 Ballina – Limerick empty coal and oil 18:05 18:05 SB Fri 001 Mayo – Limerick empty fertiliser/cement path 19:17 19:17 SB As req’d 001 Limerick – Ennis passenger 20:30 NB Tues, Thurs 141 Ennis – Limerick empty passenger 20:40 SB Tues, Thurs 141 Westport/Tuam – Limerick bagged cement path 20:52 20:52 SB MWF As req’d 001 The evening passenger train may be an extension of the 17:40 Dublin-Limerick, or a connecting train out of that service. A decade later, the Dublin train definitely ran through to Ennis, often with a pair of 141s hauling the long rake of Mk3 coaches. The morning passenger train would connect with the 08:30 Limerick-Dublin and might be formed of the same set, or just be a connecting train. On Sundays, three paths for Knock Specials are provided; no traction is specified but I think these were usually a pair of baby GMs: Train Arr Dep Dir’n Days Loco South – Claremorris special passenger 09:40 09:40 NB As req’d South – Claremorris special passenger 10:35 10:35 NB As req’d South – Claremorris special passenger 11:35 11:35 NB As req’d Claremorris – South special passenger 19:28 19:28 SB As req’d Claremorris – South special passenger 20:23 20:23 SB As req’d Claremorris – South special passenger 21:15 21:15 SB As req’d Overall, in the period that interests me there is some good variety of freight and passenger workings at Ennis. The ‘best’ years are probably the two extremes of the dates I’ve looked at – 1975 and 1990, because they include some regular (if infrequent) passenger trains, as well as a good variety of freight with a mix of 001 and 141 haulage. Over the years I've looked at, freight traffic to or through Ennis included: Traditional loose-coupled freight Beet specials (loose coupled) Fertiliser in bogie wagons Pallet cement in 4-wheel wagons Bulk cement in 4-wheel wagons Liner trains with a variety of containers Containerised coal and oil trains 1978 was definitely the worst year for modellable operations as there were very few trains, all block freight paths booked for 001 haulage, and mostly operating in darkness. In more recent times (well still over 20 years ago to be honest) I have also seen log trains and ballast trains at Ennis. But now, I think there's just the passenger services which have become vastly better than they were before.

My next Working Timetable commences January 1986. There was still no regular passenger service and many of the freight paths were similar to the previous year, but the addition of the Foynes – Ballina coal and oil train and some extra cement paths adds some interest. There are few, if any, occasions when more than one train is at Ennis. This is the period that's clearest in my memory and it was rare to see a train at Ennis. The one I did photograph was a fertiliser train serving Ennis itself, which had possibly run in the path of the Limerick-Mayo fertiliser. Certainly it was towards the middle of the day, and the wagons of the Ennis Liner were also present under the container crane. On weekdays, the trains at Ennis in 1986 can be summarised as follows: Train Arr Dep Dir’n Days Loco Limerick – Mayo bagged cement path 06:27 06:27 NB As req’d 001 Limerick – Athenry bulk cement path 07:27 07:27 NB As req’d 001 Limerick – Ennis Liner 08:30 NB Mon-Fri 141 Ennis – Limerick light engine 08:45 SB Mon-Fri 141 Limerick – Mayo fertiliser path 09:57 09:57 NB As req’d 001 Athenry – Limerick empty cement path 12:49 12:49 SB As req’d 001 Foynes – Ballina coal and oil 14:42 14:42 NB Mon, Thurs 001 Galway – Ennis bagged cement path 14:01 SB As req’d 001 Limerick – Ennis light engine 15:35 NB Mon-Fri 141 Ennis – Limerick Liner 15:45 SB Mon-Fri 141 Galway – Limerick empty cement path 16:17 16:50 SB As req’d 001 Ballina – Limerick empty coal and oil 18:05 18:05 SB Wed, Sat 001 Mayo – Limerick empty fertiliser/cement path 19:17 19:17 SB As req’d 001 Galway – Farranfore fertiliser path 19:29 19:29 SB As req’d 001 Westport/Tuam – Limerick bagged cement path 20:52 20:52 SB As req’d 001 Around this time there were occasional passenger excursions from Ennis to Dublin, and I travelled on one of them. Probably in the path that would be used for the resumption of regular passenger services as we'll see in my next post. On Sundays, three paths for Knock Specials are provided; no traction is specified but I think these were usually a pair of baby GMs: Train Arr Dep Dir’n Days Loco South – Claremorris special passenger 09:45 09:45 NB As req’d South – Claremorris special passenger 10:38 10:38 NB As req’d South – Claremorris special passenger 11:37 11:37 NB As req’d Claremorris – South special passenger 19:28 19:28 SB As req’d Claremorris – South special passenger 20:23 20:23 SB As req’d Claremorris – South special passenger 21:15 21:15 SB As req’d

My next Working Timetable commences January 1985. There was still no regular passenger service but the freights have become a little more interesting with the addition of bulk cement to Athenry, the return of a rostered 141 turn, and it all runs in daylight. The Galway – Ennis bagged cement path is a little mysterious as it’s not clear what happens when it arrives at Ennis, or indeed whether it is laden (which is implied in the WTT because it doesn't say empty, but seems to be the wrong direction for a laden cement train). Perhaps it continues to Limerick combined with the liner? There are no occasions where more than one train is present. On weekdays, the trains at Ennis in 1985 can be summarised as follows: Train Arr Dep Dir’n Days Loco Limerick – Mayo bagged cement path 06:27 06:27 NB As req’d 001 Limerick – Athenry bulk cement path 07:27 07:27 NB As req’d 001 Limerick – Ennis Liner 08:30 NB Mon-Fri 141 Ennis – Limerick light engine 08:45 SB Mon-Fri 141 Limerick – Mayo fertiliser path 10:37 10:37 NB As req’d 001 Athenry – Limerick empty cement path 12:49 12:49 SB As req’d 001 Galway – Ennis bagged cement path 14:01 SB As req’d 001 Limerick – Ennis light engine 15:20 NB Mon-Fri 141 Ennis – Limerick Liner 15:45 SB Mon-Fri 141 Mayo – Limerick empty fertiliser/cement path 19:17 19:17 SB As req’d 001 Galway – Farranfore fertiliser path 19:29 19:29 SB As req’d 001 On Sundays, three paths for Knock Specials are provided; no traction is specified but I think these were usually a pair of baby GMs: Train Arr Dep Dir’n Days Loco South – Claremorris special passenger 09:45 09:45 NB As req’d South – Claremorris special passenger 10:38 10:38 NB As req’d South – Claremorris special passenger 11:37 11:37 NB As req’d Claremorris – South special passenger 19:28 19:28 SB As req’d Claremorris – South special passenger 20:23 20:23 SB As req’d Claremorris – South special passenger 21:15 21:15 SB As req’d

Moving forward to summer 1978 which is my next Working Timetable, the regular passenger service had been withdrawn although the line was still popular for special trains including pilgrimages to Knock, GAA and other sporting fixtures, etc. The pattern of freights had changed significantly – the loose-coupled freights had vanished except for a seasonal beet path, replaced with paths for pallet cement and fertiliser trains. There was a Dublin-Ennis Liner via Limerick which ran 5 days a week, otherwise it was just paths as required. On weekdays, the trains at Ennis in summer 1978 can be summarised as follows: Train Arr Dep Dir’n Days Loco Dublin – Ennis Liner 01:22 NB Tues-Sat 001 Ennis – Dublin Liner 02:05 SB Tues-Sat 001 Mayo – Limerick empty cement path 03:39 03:39 SB As req’d 001 Beet Special (loose-coupled) 09:55 09:55 NB As req’d 001 Limerick – Mayo bagged cement path 12:27 12:27 NB As req’d 001 Limerick – Tuam/Galway bagged cement path 12:27 14:30 NB As req’d 001 Mayo/Galway – Cork empty fertiliser path 15:19 15:19 SB As req’d 001 Empty Beet Special (loose-coupled) 20:49 20:49 SB As req’d 001 Tuam/Galway – Limerick empty cement path 23:22 23:22 SB As req’d 001 Cork – West fertiliser path 23:17 23:27 NB As req’d 001 This is rather less interesting than 1975. Only one daily service, the rest are paths as required. A solid diet of 001s, and most of the action is in the middle of the night. The only time when two trains might be present at the same time is at 23:20. However, on Sundays, four paths for Knock Specials are provided; no traction is specified but I think these were usually a pair of baby GMs: Train Arr Dep Dir’n Days Loco South – Claremorris special passenger 09:45 09:45 NB As req’d South – Claremorris special passenger 10:22 10:22 NB As req’d South – Claremorris special passenger 10:59 10:59 NB As req’d South – Claremorris special passenger 11:35 11:35 NB As req’d Claremorris – South special passenger 19:28 19:28 SB As req’d Claremorris – South special passenger 20:05 20:05 SB As req’d Claremorris – South special passenger 20:43 20:43 SB As req’d Claremorris – South special passenger 21:29 21:29 SB As req’d I do wish the forum would stop automatically merging replies when I'm trying to space them out to tell a story in chapters. And then making it difficult to edit the merged result. anyway...

I'd originally thought of building a smallish shunting layout because it would be easily portable and fit in various possible spaces, but I already have an O gauge 'inglenook' style layout and to be honest it gets very little use (although it looks quite pretty). So now I'm thinking that for the Irish option I'd perhaps rather watch trains passing through the scenery. I do enjoy scenic modelling. This is perhaps also influenced by the reliability of a 21mm gauge shunting layout and the choice of couplings in 4mm scale that enable effective shunting. I am mulling over ideas for a built-in layout in the loft space. This would require some work on the loft first, which has been part of the general plan for the house for a while. Perhaps a layout plan would spur me on to fitting out the loft? The sketch below shows the plan view of the loft-space and an end elevation. The basic space is 3.6m (12') wide and 3.75m (12'6") long, extending a further 0.25m between the chimneys. This alcove would favour a traverser-style fiddle yard which could be 1.8m (6') long. It looks like it's quite feasible to have a circuit 3.3m (11') across in each direction, with 1m radius curves. Obviously it could be more complex and with a more natural trackplan, but it gives an idea of what's feasible: The space is too small for a worthwhile 7mm scale layout (which is my main scale for non-Irish stuff), which is probably why it has remained unused. However, I think it looks quite reasonable for 4mm scale. The fiddle yard length would allow realistic length Irish passenger trains of 5 coaches (Cravens/Park Royal etc); alternatively freights of 8 bogies or nearly 20 traditional 4-wheelers. Potentially up to 8 tracks on the traverser would give scope for a couple of passenger trains and a good mix of freights. I think I could fit in a station with passing loop and simple goods facilities on any of the 3 sides not occupied by the fiddle yard, although the ends of the station would have to bend round the curves. The remainder of the layout could just be single track through scenery, allowing a view of the whole train. Having spent a lot of my childhood visits to Ireland in and around Ennis, I'm wondering if a representation of that station and yard (in early 1980s state) could be squeezed in. Station on the left side of the plan, north end road bridge at the top, the south end throat would have to curve round in the bottom left corner. I think it would need only 5 or 6 points. Scenery-wise, Clare Abbey bottom right and the Fergus bridge middle right? Some trains would run through, others would stop and shunt before continuing in the same direction, while some would come from Limerick direction, terminate at Ennis and later return to the fiddle yard. Of course there are a load of practical issues to deal with including fitting out the loft and the temperature fluctuations. Operations at Ennis I am mulling over ideas for a layout based on Ennis in the 1970s/1980s, so I thought I’d have a look at the traffic and operations there and record my notes here in case anyone else might be interested. This is based primarily on the CIE Working Timetables in my collection, though in due course I will try and cross-reference them with photos. I’ll look at several different dates over a 15-year period. My earliest CIE Working Timetable is dated November 1975. This was a significant edition for rail services in the west of Ireland because the ‘Burma Road’ from Claremorris to Sligo closed at the start of that month, as did the Loughrea branch. The pattern of freight traffic was changing under the “Rail Plan 80” with loose-coupled vans being superseded by containerised general freight and special wagons for bulk freight. Wagonload freight was concentrated at regional hubs, with freight facilities at many smaller stations being closed. Ennis was a winner here, becoming a regional hub with a new goods store and container gantry. 1975 is also a significant year for me as it was the first time I visited Ennis, albeit as an unborn foetus. It was to become a familiar place with family holidays there every year until the early 1990s. On weekdays, the trains at Ennis in winter 1975 can be summarised as follows: Train Arr Dep Dir’n Days Loco Limerick – Claremorris loose-coupled goods 05:51 06:15 NB Tues-Sat 001 Limerick – Ennis loose-coupled goods 07:58 09:05* NB Mon-Sat 141 Cork – Galway/Tuam/west fertiliser path 08:25 08:25 NB As req’d 001 Ennis – Limerick light engine 08:50 SB Mon-Sat 141 Athenry – Limerick light engine 11:41* 11:55* SB As req’d 141 Limerick – Ennis passenger mail 11:52 NB Mon-Sat 141 Ennis – Limerick passenger mail 12:40 SB Mon-Sat 141 Limerick – Ballina passenger 14:42 14:45 NB Mon-Sat 141 Claremorris – Limerick loose-coupled goods 16:15 17:30 SB Mon-Fri 001 Galway/Tuam/west – Cork empty fertiliser path 16:37 16:37 SB As req’d 001 Ballina – Limerick passenger 17:08 17:11 SB Mon-Sat 141 * Path for this train to continue to Athenry if required, and LE return It’s hardly Clapham Junction, but there are some busy moments; there are potentially two trains present at 08:25, 11:52, 16:37 and 17:08. Some trains run though, some pause and shunt, and others terminate, run round and return. Most of the action is in daylight. A mix of freight and passenger, and 001s and 141s. Quite interesting. No Sunday trains are shown.

Indeed. I'm sure some of those details could be re-used in a Mk1 BGSV

I'd originally thought of a smallish shunting layout because it would be easily portable and fit in various possible spaces, but I already have an O gauge 'inglenook' style layout and to be honest it gets very little use (although it looks quite pretty). So now I'm thinking that for the Irish option I'd perhaps rather watch trains passing through the scenery. I do enjoy scenic modelling. This is perhaps also influenced by the reliability of a 21mm gauge shunting layout and the choice of couplings in 4mm scale that enable effective shunting. I am mulling over ideas for a built-in layout in the loft space. This would require some work on the loft first, which has been part of the general plan for the house for a while. Perhaps a layout plan would spur me on to fitting out the loft? The sketch below shows the plan view of the loft-space and an end elevation. The basic space is 3.6m (12') wide and 3.75m (12'6") long, extending a further 0.25m between the chimneys. This alcove would favour a traverser-style fiddle yard which could be 1.8m (6') long. It looks like it's quite feasible to have a circuit 3.3m (11') across in each direction, with 1m radius curves. Obviously it could be more complex and with a more natural trackplan, but it gives an idea of what's feasible: The space is too small for a worthwhile 7mm scale layout (which is my main scale for non-Irish stuff), which is probably why it has remained unused. However, I think it looks quite reasonable for 4mm scale. The fiddle yard length would allow realistic length Irish passenger trains of 5 coaches (Cravens/Park Royal etc); alternatively freights of 8 bogies or nearly 20 traditional 4-wheelers. Potentially up to 8 tracks on the traverser would give scope for a couple of passenger trains and a good mix of freights. I think I could fit in a station with passing loop and simple goods facilities on any of the 3 sides not occupied by the fiddle yard, although the ends of the station would have to bend round the curves. The remainder of the layout could just be single track through scenery, allowing a view of the whole train. Having spent a lot of my childhood visits to Ireland in and around Ennis, I'm wondering if a representation of that station and yard (in early 1980s state) could be squeezed in. Station on the left side of the plan, north end road bridge at the top, the south end throat would have to curve round in the bottom left corner. I think it would need only 5 or 6 points. Scenery-wise, Clare Abbey bottom right and the Fergus bridge middle right? Some trains would run through, others would stop and shunt before continuing in the same direction, while some would come from Limerick direction, terminate at Ennis and later return to the fiddle yard. Of course there are a load of practical issues to deal with including fitting out the loft and the temperature fluctuations.

Possibly something to interest the 7mm scale modellers, a GNR brake van (built) and an MGWR coach kit (though I'd advise against reading the AI-enhanced descriptions!): https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/356426644080 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/356426676260 Whilst for those interested in old railway documents, some rulebooks and a gazeteer, and an early W&LR invoice: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/186870491560 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/146311358151

As mentioned, the cattle wagon is progressing well too. The parts are very nicely cast and went together well, with a little care to make sure everything was square. I used a modified Parkside PA06 chassis instead of that provided in the kit - it was easy to regauge to 21mm and had clasp brakes, so I've built a vac-fitted cattle wagon. It is currently finished in clean ex-works brown livery, but yet to be lettered, and it will have some light weathering. There are a few more details still to add, including door bangers (ready to go on) and brake handwheels (to be stolen from an IRM H van later this month) As yet I haven't glued the roof on, hopefully it will seat down a little better when glued. I don't intend to load it. With these vans, the GSR grain hopper, 3 corrugated opens, and some H vans on the way, I have the potential for a 15-wagon 1970s CIE freight train. I need to think about somewhere to run it (and also make a decision on couplings, which I've been putting off!)

Very nice work! I agree 6' carriage width seems too narrow - even the old Ffestiniog coaches are wider that that, and the FR is a 2' gauge line with a famously tight loading gauge. I like the developing shellfish business - I hope the journey time to the big city isn't so long that they start to whiff a bit!

Super! Very inspiring.

I've got to the stage where a number of wagon projects are nearly finished, waiting on some custom transfer artwork that I need to complete and get printed. Then I'm going to do a big batch of weathering and will suddenly have a train of a dozen wagons which will be far too long for my photo plank! And that's before the IRM H vans arrive. I think I need a new display cabinet! My childhood memories of Irish railways are in the mid-1980s, pre-tippex. But I find the 1970s period a little more interesting and varied to model, with the transition from traditional freight trains to fully-fitted liners. For the older goods stock, I'm aiming for a roughly 50/50 mix of grey and brown livery wagons, with the idea that I can represent slightly different eras in the 1970s by adjusting the proportion of grey and brown wagons in the train. My memories of CIE brake vans are all of 30t vans in brown livery (and I have a suspicion/hope that IRM may have one of those up their sleeve), but I wanted a grey brake van as well, and the JM Design 20 ton brake van kit was perfect for my needs. A lovely model even straight out of the box, with some extra details added by myself: handrails, lamp irons, metal buffer heads and coupling hooks, extra reinforcing strips at the base of the sides, and some more details around the stove both inside and out. This model is now physically complete and lettered, but not yet weathered. I also need to add glazing. The livery is slightly unusual but prototypical for this van. The wasp-stripe transfer for the ducket wasn't quite big enough for the way my prototype was painted, so I had to carefully paint the yellow and black to extend the stripes both up and down. Hopefully the imperfections will be disguised by the weathering! https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511648559 Not far behind the brake van in the build process is a Provincial CIE cattle wagon. Watch this space...

This link to a photo from Jonathan Allen on Flickr is one I saw a few months ago and then forgot where I'd seen it. I've found it again so I'll link it here. It's one of those wonderful transition-era trains with some bogie container flats at the front, 4-wheel container flats in the middle, and a rabble of old goods vans on the back. Jonathan dates this as 1979 (slightly uncertainly). However, the date can't be far off as the bogie flats with Y33 bogies were only introduced in 1978, and the traditional goods vans vanished in the late 1970s. To me, the item of most interest here is the 1970s Manchester Liners container, broadly of this type as available from C=Rail: https://shop.c-rail-intermodal.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=72_73&product_id=272 Having studied the Manchester Liners containers in detail, it's always nice to see them in unexpected places!

Very nice - something for everyone there. In the second photo, that incredibly shoddy silver A class is a sight to behold! Has anyone on forum weathered a model into this sort of condition, I wonder? In the third photo, A58R carried black and shallow tan livery from 1971 to 1974, but was repainted into supertrain livery by 1975. So I'd suggest this is early 1970s.

Nice work! It’s a great location to model in any era, loads of character in the architecture and quite tightly enclosed by the buildings. I assume you have seen the photos of the works on the NLI archive website? Mostly 1960s and quite a few interior shots as well as the exterior. Mol

Detailing up this brake van is rather fun, it helps that it's a great model to start with. Eventually I'd like a 30-tonner as well - IRM seem to keep ruling them out, which is a pity. Maybe they'll surprise us?

Wonderful, many thanks. I'll use that interior scheme which is much the same as used on British Rail goods brakes too. Must have been the practical choice! My chosen prototype has some unusual features on the (grey) external livery though - the area above and below the ducket is grey rather than black, and the roundel is tan. https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511648559

Was there a standard interior colour scheme for these brake vans? With the nicely detailed handbrake, vacuum setter and stove I feel I ought to paint the inside, though to be honest it's not very visible from the outside. The only interior photos I've found are on this page, which suggests a dark floor and pale walls and ceiling, red handbrake wheel on black column, heatproof panels behind the stove but perhaps also pale: https://www.abandonedni.com/single-post/mind-the-gap I'm idly wondering about an interior light too, which might also provide some illumination in the side lamps. Is it worth it? Probably not.

I'm just detailing up my kit example, it's an excellent model but I decided to detail it with handrails, lamp irons, an extra strip at the base of the sides, and a finer chimney for the stove. Now, I know these vans were built in several batches by the GSR and CIE, and there are detail differences between batches. But I'm trying to work out whether I should fit roof vents. This is the prototype I'm modelling, but the photo has a very messy background and it's hard to determine the roof details: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511648559 This is a GSR one and it clearly has 2 torpedo vents in the roof as well as the stove chimney (Ernie photo on Flickr): This is also a GSR one and it clearly has 1 torpedo vent in the roof as well as the stove chimney (NLI photo on Flickr). The vent position appears to be similar to the image above, but only the vent further from the chimney is fitted, and it is oriented laterally rather than longitudinally: This is an earlier CIE-built van seen later in life in 1974 and it clearly has 1 torpedo vent in the roof (same position as above) as well as the stove chimney (IRRS photo on Flickr): https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53570450936 Another 1970s photo, this time from Ernie, shows another early CIE-built van and it appears to have a pair of vents, same positions as in the first photo, but not the same type of vent: Probably around 1970 photo, this from the IRRS archive, shows a later CIE-built van and I think we can just see the top of a pair of vents, same positions as in the first photo: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53527285226 On the other hand, there are plenty of photos of vans which definitely have no roof vents, such as this from Brian Flannigan which is a GSR-built example: Or indeed this in the IRRS Archive which is one of the later CIE batch: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53509010781 Knowing how goods guards spent much of their life in a struggle to keep warm, and newspapers were an essential accessory to fold up and plug any draughts, I can't imagine that roof vents were seen as an advantage by the users of these vans. On the other hand, there would be some benefit of avoiding carbon monoxide poisoning from the stove. Maybe the brake vans were all built with them but they were removed from most vans over time? Has anyone got any more info on the roof vents? There are of course a whole host of other detail differences between the vans, either from build or subsequent modification, but I won't get carried away with those now. Cheers, Mol

Now that is an excellent observation, John! Because B+I's Lancashire Flats were 24' long: I should have read all the information I posted a bit more carefully! The fleet list above is from 1971, the same year as these photos with the 'framework'.

Lovely! The butcher's van in the background is making me hungry - perhaps a fry will be in order tomorrow morning?

Gosh, is this weathering supposed to add value? Noting that Rails themselves have brand new, upgraded design Murphy 141s for £40 less... https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/196924966977 They might have got almost that grubby in the IE era but not in CIE days.