RedRich

I hadn't seen the lad's post's while I was composing my own, but it would be a shame if another 2 pack of standards weren't commissioned. Rich,

Good question. 234 was in Waterford West last year and had 2 Genny's and 6 standards in between. I have seen photo's with 1 Genny and 3 Standards. I am sure they have appeared in other formations. It would make sense to release a set of 2 standards to accompany the present 2 pack set of Genny and Standard, of course sales of the present set would dictate if another set were to be commissioned. HTH Rich,

Agreed Pat, a great man and a gent. Rich,

Traction tyres were fitted to the Lima and Hornby old style wheelsets. I don't have any Hornby locos from the pre 5 pole motor double flywheel and solid chassis we are used to today. I don't know if Burnthebox has any Lima 201's or older Hornby locos in his collection. Lima 201's are fitted with traction tyres and they don't have steel wheels. When Hornby released the first batch of their super detailed diesels the class 50 was the chosen model to be produced. The first releases were fitted with traction tyres even though they were very heavy when compared to the previous Lima, Hornby style diesel models which needed the tyres for traction as the locos were light and didn't have a lot of pulling power. Due to requests from modellers the later batches were released minus traction tyres because traction tyres cause dirt that is re deposited onto the rail. There is a healthy supply of traction tyres available from spare parts retailers because they need to be replaced on a regular basis because they get very dirty quickly and yet again deposit dirt. Ultrascale produce drop in wheelsets for the Lima diesel models in different gauges and they don't have traction tyres. Most modellers add weight for better adhesion or double motor their models because traction tyres cause dirt. Ultrascale wheelsets are nickle silver. They will however on occasion produce a batch of steel tyred wheelsets on commission and the person requesting them has to pay up front, I know this as I have made enquiries with the company about some drop in wheelsets in steel. Black Beetle wheelsets are nickle silver. The rail in Peco track which the vast majority of 00 modellers use is nickle silver not steel. P4 Track CO and C&L produce rail in steel, nickle silver, and hi ni. I know that a lot of the lad's use the Hornby Railroad ex Lima class 55 to power their kit built models, I don't know if they have traction tyres. Other suppliers provide wheelsets for Steam Models that don't have traction tyres. Murphy models don't use traction tyres because due to the weight and haulage capabilities they possess and the fact that they create dirt they aren't used. Steel wheels are better matched with steel track. I have almost scientifically investigated all the pros and cons of traction tyres steel wheel or steel tyred wheels call me a rivet counter if you like I enjoy doing it. To end this I do agree with the comment in a previous post in relation to arcing in certain circumstances. HTH, Rich,

Thanks for that, I'll have to trawl the net for some photos. That's two years in a row I've missed it. Rich,

Excellent photos Wanderer, any idea when the Weedspray train will be in the Waterford area if it hasn't been already. Rich,

Some very good suggestions and well worth investigation to find something that suits your needs. I always remove the wheelsets and clean the wheels with IPA on a Q tip. To make sure that you will have flawless running after a cleaning session. Also while you are at it clean the rail heads on your track. If you are cleaning wheelsets with traction tyres remember that traction tyres tend to redeposit dirt back on to the track so give them an extra bit of elbow grease. Just as a little bit of an excersise clean a few rail heads and you will be amazed with how dirty they get so quickly a Q tip even dipped into some white spirit will suffice. Also as an aside if cleaning rail heads avoid a track rubber at all cost's. HTH Rich,

Good question Arran. MJT produce an inside bearing type unit that is fitted to one end of the chassis and it has little tabs that are folded out and the give the compensation unit a degree of movement to allow it to traverse the track. The other end is fitted with a rigid axle. A little bit of plasticard could be fitted to the underneath of the chassis and a wagon body like a beet or Bullied wagon body would obscure the underneath so the inside bearing unit wouldn't be seen, as would a container on the chassis. Of course with another type of body like a cement bubble or ballast wagon the modeller would find his or her own solution. I am sure that Uncle Des would design a brass springing type of W Iron for anyone that would request them if they didn't want to take the MJT option. If you look at the Ultrascale website as just one supplier that provides drop in wheelsets they cover nearly all Diesels which is proof that Bachmann, Hornby, etc do build their models with the view to modellers wanting to regauge their stock albeit in the UK 4ft 8 1/2 gauge, and as has been pointed out so do MM locos for our 5ft 3 gauge. A wagon model built to the correct dimensions will run on 28mm pin point axles with wheels set at the 16.5 gauge on Peco etc track. Peco even produce code 100 rail for people using the more coarse Lima pizza cutter type wheels and code 75 for the more finer type wheels that are produced on today's models. The modeller that decides to have a stab at the wider gauge will incur any extra cost himself and that is fair. Also there are lad's that are modelling in 21mm in an EM type scenario where they reuse the original wheels on on longer axles with their MM loco's with the wheels, gears, and some brass bushes for widening the gauge and even though they are not modelling to strict P4 standards it's hard to tell unless you really get close to it and looks great. HTH Rich,

You shouldn't be Richie for speaking your mind and being honest. Rich,

The first thing any manufacturer will do to get a project rolling is to acquire drawings, photograph a prototype extensively, and measure it. The measuring of a prototype and comparing the results to drawings is hugely important to get it correct. If a manufacturer decides to build the model to the correct measurements and dimensions surely this can't be a bad thing. You can still fit the wheels on 28mm axles to the correct distance for 16.5mm track be it Peco or any other manufacturer, all your locos are built to the correct dimensions and still run on 16.5mm track. It does not cost any more to produce a 28mm pin point axle as it does for a 26mm pin point axle. That way there is no extra cost. Dapol are looking into producing P4 wheelsets and it can be done in the manufacturing facility where they have their products produced in China. Saying that building a chassis to a narrower width is more economical isn't a fact. If manufacturers build a chassis narrower by 2mm to accept the standard 26mm axles then the bodies of any wagons will have to be narrower also or it will look ridiculous. If they do decide to build a narrower body also then they will have invented a new scale as it can't be 1/76 scale which is what MM locos are. The locos are sold with 00 wheelsets but the over all structure dimensions and distance between bogie side frames are correct in order for them to be converted. People seem to have a mindset that you can't fit a rigid axle wheelset with wheels at 16.5 on 28mm axles but you can. If your locos and coaches run on 00 gauge track even though they are modelled to the correct loading gauge then a wagon will. The weight of a MM loco running on what could be said to be narrow gauge track doesn't prevent it from running flawlessly. Therefore a wagon with 28mm axles will also. Rich,

That sounds good Des, I can't wait to see them. Rich,

If we look at what has been released by MM since the baby's were released, all the models can be converted to 21mm. The locos have the space between the bogies. The coaches as with any bogie can have the side frames removed and one of the compensation or CCU kit's can be used with the original side frames. In this way the coaches can retain the correct dimensions body wise. With rigid axle type wagons you will need 28mm axles. In some cases you can use an inside bearing axle on one end with no pin points, but you will need another rigid axle at the other end which needs to be 28mm. The questions that were asked concerning the prorposed wagons is would they be produced in such a way to allow conversion to 21mm. I think it was a fair question to submit and if it turns out that the proposed models aren't designed with 21mm conversion built in then fine it's not a problem. I know the voices of the many will always be heard over the voices of the few and commercially that is the right way for any manufacturer to go. I sincerely wish all the lads who are designing new models the very best of luck with their venture, and huge respect to them for taking the plunge. I will say that if the lad's can produce the chassis with the correct brake gear, w irons, j hangers at a reasonable price then do it it will make a huge difference to the look of the model. I'm sure after sales market details like lamp irons and builders plates etc can be produced to give the model an extra bit of class. Rich,

ii I'd say in HO scale 18mm EM Gauge or 18.33 would be better suited. Rich,

Very interesting points Richie. I can see the pricing of a wagon being a big factor for a lot of people. The 20ft chassis as you say are cosmetically different within the certain classes. MM locos are built to scale with 21mm modelling being catered for as it is, with the bogies being spaced correctly for the correct axle lenghts. I remember talking to Paddy Murphy many years ago before the 141-181 models were released and he said that that was one aspect that he was catering for and anyone that has measured the distance between bogie sides can clearly see that. All coaches or bogie vehicles produced for the UK modeller obviously also need to be compensated to some degree and that is the same here. Alan O'Rourke and Stephen Johnsons book on modelling Irish Railways has a section dedicated to that and track building. I know that Des at SSM factors 21mm into his Steam Loco Kit's also. There are a lot of 21mm modellers out there that aren't members here, New Irish Lines will prove that. Irish Modles are not just for people on this group. Rich,

I agree John. At the moment Arann is looking into having a 20ft flat produced for the Bell containers also. There has been no definitive answer here as to whether the proposed wagons from Leslie would be manufactured to allow them to be easily converted to 21mm standards. Surely any model that is released of an item of an Irish prototype wagon should have the correct dimensions for width over head stocks and sole bars as a must. All the MM locos have the correct width between the bogies to allow conversion to 21mm, and if any wagon is to be produced to compliment them, then they should have the correct dimensions also. I know a lot of lads that are members of the Scalefour Society that model Irish Railways in 21mm that aren't members here that would be delighted with a venture like this, if the correct scale was reproduced. Parkside have been producing kit's of BR wagons in various scales for years and they are fine kit's and reasonably priced. Even if a Parkside type kit was to be produced with accurate dimensions surely 5 or 6 could be purchased for the price of an 071 or 201. I'm also sure that they would sell in fleet quantities. It's just another angle of looking at things. Rich,

Simon Bendall at Rex has a big interest in Irish Railways and knows his stuff. Bachmann threatened the mag with legal action when the original class 37-4 was reviewed and Rex were spot on. Bachmann retooled the model and they now have a healthy relationship and Bachmann produce ltd edition 37's for the mag. In fairness the original class 37 was a shocker. Rail Express is a great mag for anyone interested in British Railways. They do an Irish section every month also. I have to say that the modelling section has become a bit overloaded with ads over the last few years. Still a good read though. Rich,

Is it just the fact that MM haven't released a 121, that people want one. Most people I talk to have it at the top of their wish list. I personally love the prototype, can't say the same about the 201's. It makes me wonder what people would prefer to have been modelled. It would of course complete the GM fleet. Rich,

I can't say I like that, on the other hand Bachmann will be pleased. Rich,

That's great news Des, I can't wait to see pics and the very best of luck. I bet it will be a winner. Rich,

A lot of us on here are members of RMweb. I always pop in every day as there are some threads that I am interested in. I know that the other mods are members too. Probably since before we formed this group. Some of the lads on RMweb aren't members or don't post on here for personal reasons and are happy there. I always look in the Irish Railways group and there are some good topics going on at the moment. We are doing well at the moment and as the hobby grows we will. Anyway as has been said back to topic. Rich,

That looks amazing, I remember seeing a DC Kits Model EMU in Network Southeast that Tony painted years ago at a show in Clontarf, so his skills with painting models are top class. I like the touch with the driver on board it's the first time I've seen one in an 071 model. Rich,

I agree, there is a huge vacuum at the moment in the hobby for a lot of freight vehicles. I hope the prayers work. Rich,

Murphy Models are not involved in this proposed venture, Leslie McAlister is the man that will be producing the models. Rich,

It's a very welcome idea Leslie. I know that the chassis were a standard size and some were cosmetically different to others. This wouldn't be a deal breaker for me as it would be easy to correct. Would the chassis have the correct w irons, axle boxes, J hangers, brake gear, and would it be the correct width for 21mm conversion. If the answer is yes then Cement, Beet, Ballast hoppers, Ballast plough, and some bagged Cement wagons would be a nice choice. The only way we will see something like this coming to fruition is if someone actually does it. I wish you all the best with whatever happens in the future and if some of the questions I have asked have positive answers I will buy in fleet quantities. Rich,

I have it myself Fran. I think a 47 in triple grey also carried the plates also. I have a pic of it in Derby. My father was working in Waterford Crystal years ago and he bumped into a guy (African) outside K1 cutting shop. The guy asked the old man if he could speak to his boss Ned Lloyd. The old mas told him there was no Ned Lloyd working in Management. The guy said his name is outside, the old man said this is Waterford Crystal, the guy said no I want to see Ned Lloyd your boss. The old man asked him was he taking the p***, the guy said to him come look. they went out into the transport area and all the containers were P&O Ned Lloyd. The old man rubbed his chin and said I have you now, and sent him into the floor manager a real cranky chap, I would have loved to have seen it. Rich,