Mayner

I may be missing something lot of discussion on the subject and not a single example of 21mm gauge track. I started work on a 7'6" X 5' L shaped dock layout in 2011 inspired by the North Wall Lines. The basic idea was set of canal side reception sidings serving a tramway connection to the quays. The layout never got past the initial stages as I did not allow sufficient space between the running line and the yard tracks. The other problem was there was simply not enough space to give a realistic transition from the straight approach roads to the curved section of the layout. The ordinary 1:6 points were fine the double slip challenging. Rail was surplus Code 82 rail from Atlas flexible track on copper clad sleepers. The trackwork was prefabricated in sections off the baseboard, wired, tested and painted before being secured in place and ballasted.

Hand laid track using copper clad construction is a lot cheaper and flexible in design than Peco or other ready to use track systems. Soldered track with copper clad sleepers is very strong and easy to adjust wide or tight spots something that difficult to do with the much more expensive C&L & Exactoscale systems. Current Marcway/SMP prices 6yds Code 100 N/S rail £9.50 6yds Code 75N/s £ 8.25 Copper clad 8'6" sleepers 100-------------- £10 1000------------£90 Sleeper strip for points 12- £10.95. Many modelers use a combination of ply and copper clad sleepers with 1:5 sleepers in copper clad.

The question of whether scratchbuilding or kit building over buying rtr is a false economy depends really on whether a person derives their satisfaction from collecting or modelling I went through a phase of building BR steam locos from DJH & Comet kits about 20 years ago some speculatively, some as commissions, and some for myself. On average a kit for a large loco like a West Country or 9F 2-10-0 took 30 hours to build and sold for upwards of £250 with material costs of around £100. One of the frustrating things was that Bachmann or Hornby tended to release a rtr version within 6-12 months of completing a model of a particular loco, but the satisfaction of completing a particular loco was far higher than opening a box. A kit or scratchbuilt built loco with metal boiler, brass frames, quality Mashima motor with all metal gear train likely to perform better and last far longer than a rtr loco with mazak chassis and plastic gear train. Some of my kit built Irish steam locos are upward of 30 years old and still run reasonably well while most of my British outline rtr locos of that age are only fit for the scrap box.

.Eoin I might be worth looking at the Lifelike SW9/1200 or Micritrain SW1500 switcher chassis for a B141 Class. Altas produce a MP15 which has a longer frame than the SW locos. I used the old Atlas/Rivarossi SW1500 switcher as a chassis for a plasticard B141 and a pair of 121s about 40 years ago, from memory the SW1500 chassis was pretty close in terms of overall length.

Every day occurrence this part of the world.

David's green van was based on this photo which was supplied by A J O'Rourke. Unable to identify the photographer

I give completely contradictory advice to Andy and recommend 139 or 145 solder with liquid flux Carrs Red label is a bit less corrosive and easier on the sinuses and soldering iron tip than yellow label. I would agree with Andys comments around cleanliness and the size of soldering Iron I found the Antex best with a long tip life 25 Watt suitable for most work, though I have a 55 Watt temperature control iron for brass and whitemetal work. I find 145 gives better results than 188 for general work in loco and coach building. 188 is more free flowing and best for sheet metal work forming neat joints between accurately fitted components. Dilute phosphoric acid is a more economic alternative to the Carrs fluxes. I use Ranex Rustbuster basically a phosphoric acid solution available in 250ml containers from the local hardware, not sure if there is an Irish equivalent. I dilute the Rustbuster 50% before use which goes a long way. There are also citrus based fluxes available from DCC Concepts in Australia which is slightly less hazardous but expensive or rainwater readily available and hopefully even less hazardous

We saw a lot of stored power and rolling stock when we visited the United States in 2016, apparently as a result of a collapse in oil and coal traffic. It was particularly noticeable on the Union Pacific ex Rio Grande main line across Colorado & Utah. The Yard at Grand Junction was full of stored road and switching locos, every second passing loop between Denver & Salt Lake City full of stored coal hoppers. Freight car storage has become a big source of income for short lines and regionals that no doubt can offer substantially lower storage charges than the Class 1 Roads. We saw literally miles of oil tank cars stored on branch lines in the Mid West Stored tank cars end of track Paris branch Otter Valley Railroad Minnesota Stored tank cars a New Effington grain elevator Sunflower Railroad South Dakota. There has been no regular traffic on this line for many years Apparently the owner used to fly up from Texas to the local air strip to drive the roads SW1 switcher when there there was traffic to be shipped

There may be a paper on the H&W export diesels in the IRRS library, there was a presentation on the H&W locos at either a London or Dublin IRRS meeting many years ago. The Agentinian main line locos appear to have been large rigid frame units similar to the Armstrong Whitworth locos of the same era and appear to have been considered a failure, as they appear to have had a habit of catching fire when the dry grass from the Pampas that collected around the running gear ignited. Typical rigid frame export loco of the 1930s H&W supplied a 3'6" gauge shunting/branch line loco to Sudan Railways their 1st diesel SR400 which may still be in existance. H Sudans next lot of diesels were a 3'6" gauge version for the standard Vulcan Foundary/English Electric shunting loco that became the BR 08 with a steam loco style cab. The nearest thing to a preserved H&W diesel is C P switcher 7000 which was assembled in Canada with imported components and originally had a H&W engine

A LMS 4F is a lot closer to a GNR SG3 in general appearance than a 700 class (once you modify the cab and firebox). Modifying the smokebox on the 700 Class to resemble a GN loco would be a major job, in fact the 700 looks reasonably close to the CIE/GSR/GSWR 257 J4 Class in its original state with extended smokebox and round topped firebox

Beeze had being doing a good job patrolling the line without disturbing or de-railing anything for about a month before he accidently knocked over the goods shed which fell to the floor. Our other little monster Bushka an absolute Ja Ja Garbor of a cat made short work of the crossing gates at the end of the yard and has a penchant for de-railing N Scale trains, keeps a close interest but hasn't tackled the Large Scale trains His favourite nesting spot was in the cutting between the loco shed and the roadside tramway section though I havent a photo

You could always work on the assumption that the BTC continued to operate the NCC and eventually took over the County Down and the GNR lines in Northern Ireland and introduced BR Standard types. At least this way you can start running trains quickly when you are concentrating on tracklaying buildings and scenery and leave the Irish rolling stock for a later day The Class 4MT moguls with smaller wheels than the NCC moguls and a tapered boiler would have been ideal for freight service on the Great Northern Derry Road. Incidentally the ex NCC Moguls took over a lot of the freight working on the Derry Road in the 1960s, there are several photos and videos of Moguls in freight service on the Derry Road. The Moguls appear to have had a lower load rating than the ex GNR SG3 and were less popular with drivers and firemen than the ex-GNR SG3 or Big D 0-6-0s which show up in photos of the Market Shunts and the loco stabled in the goods yard after the loco shed was closed.

Last years New Resolution not to start any new projects and concentrate on finishing my long list of un-finished projects kind of backfired, to make matters worse one of our cats Beeze took up residence in Keadue station, an eye level layout is very attractive to the feline species. I have removed the buildings and stock until I get a chance to install a lighting pelmet above the layout to complete the proscenium arch effect to disguise the awkward exit stage right at the Arigna end of the yard. The year before last we made the mistake of adapting two kittens 6-8 weeks apart who are now unable to share quarters and our office has become by default a cat bedroom. I did manage to complete the detailing and painting of some 4mm scale 21mm gauge stock but have not gotten around to commissioning/ordering decals The Ruston 88DS is a very old Impetus kit similar to those used by the Sugar Company the rest of the train is my own design, I hope at some stage to have a mail train suitable for the GSR and CIE green & black and tan eras. And so this New Years Resolution to tidy up the workbench and start something new for a change Prototypes for CIE MK1 & 2 Flat wagons, 650 class patterns and a pair of hooded vans for my mail train. The Unimat SL is set up for turning between centres for new axle centers for one of the Large Scale locos. The large scale storage yard and loco yard sit below the baseboards for either an American N or Irish 4mm layout if I ever get round to building either. The baseboards and backscene for the new layout were installed about 3-4 years ago, I am a slow worker and getting slower by the day. Close up of lost wax spring hanger masters for flat wagons. The MK2 flats on the left are slightly lower than the standard CIE 20' chassis in order to carry 8'6" containers throughout the system. The MK 2 flat will have to be re-mastered to simplify assembly. Lost wax wagon spring and 650 Class loco castings, these were cast using a cold casting process from the original brass masters. The castings will then be used to produce a mould for casting in pewter once I have completed cleaning up the castings Drag files here to attach, or choose files... Accepted file types gif, jpeg, jpe, jpg, png Insert other media Uploaded Images 80.81

My parents had to calm me down the first time I saw the viaduct during a farmhouse holiday in West Cork when I was around 10 or 12. Apparently Wow! was not in the Irish or English language

I used Peco Code 55 track ballasted with Woodlands Scenics fine ballast on a modular layout in the attic of my house in Dublin about 20 years ago. The modules were all 12' wide including the yard and loco depot section. The yard and loco section was successfully transhipped to New Zealand and incorporated for a short time into a larger permanent layout in Auckland. Unfortunately the layout did not get beyond the baseboard and laying the main line as we moved to Hamilton 12 months later where the great outdoors and a large scale layout beckoned These days I would probably use Atlas Code 55 track, its easier to work with and the switches (points) are a more accurate/realistic geometry than Peco. Trains of 15-20 cars were typically headed by consists of 2-4 locos depending on type, all locos and stock were fitted with Microtrain (Kadee N Scale) couplers. 55 car trains were about the maximum that could be hauled reliably with truck mounted couplers, before they started parting with a rather loud bang leaving most of the train stranded.

I I certainly did when I took up modelling American outline N about 30 years ago. I still have a large collection of N Scale locos and stock despite upscaling to G Scale 11 years ago. I would certainly recommend N for an American or Continental layout as the models are better proportioned than British N Gauge which has a similar narrow gauge look to OO as the British models are built to a slightly larger scale than everyone else. One of the big differences between American and British outline modelling is that American modelers try to model a section of railroad with a number of stations or yards, while British and Irish outline modelers with few exceptions tend to model one station which makes N Scale an attractive proposition in small to medium sized spaces.. The main advantage was being able to build a reasonable layout capable of running long freight trains in a 17X8' attic something that could not be achieved in a similar space in OO or HO. The Japanese built Kato, Atlas & Minitrix diesel locos were reasonably priced, finely detailed and better runners than anything available in OO up to about 10-15 years ago.

CIE had one basic design of 20' long 12' wheel base vacuum braked wagon chassis that was used for flat. bulk cement, hoppers, ore and tank wagons built during the late 60s early 60s. The internal framing on hopper and bulk cement wagons was different from ordinary wagons due to the design of the hopper/tank body. The 1st batch of 20 ton flat wagons 25436-25982 introduced in 1966 had steel floors for container & general traffic the second batch 27101-27767 were built as skeletals for container traffic. CIEs final design of 4w flat wagon introduced in 1973 were slightly longer at 22'6" on a 14' wheelbase with a lower frame height to carry 8'6" containers. The bagged cement and beet doubles were built on steel floored flat wagon chassis which were largely redundant by the mid 70s with the introduction of the bogie and 22'6" flat wagons which were capable of carrying 8'6" & 9' containers. The bagged cement wagons were originally built with balanced vertical doors which were gradually replaced with curtain sides as the wagons were overhauled during the 1990s.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/45248-judith-edge-kits/page-37 Harland & Woolff built 5 diesel locos which eventually went to the UTA each totally different. http://www.theyard.info/engineering/trains/trains.asp H&W also built both main line and shunting locomotives for export to the Sudan, Canada and Argentina during the 1930s. The main line locos seem to have been rigid frame boxcab units similar to the Armstrong Whitworth locos built during the same era. Argentina seems to have been a leader with diesel traction during the 1930s,

Interesting concept Irish buildings in a UK mainland context, though Sancton Wood the GSWR architect who designed Carlow station was a Londoner who also built stations in England. Will be very interesting with Sean giving Carlow a London Midland Region BR twang with everything in maroon and cream http://www.stationcolours.info/index.php?p=1_2_LMS Carlow's Gothic buildings would fit in well in the Potteries or Lake Lake District with a dark and brooding slightly neglected LMR setting or am I thinking too much of Brief Encounter

The Bell Liner trains between Waterford-Cork, Limerick & Dublin would normally only have carried Bell traffic. Their ships were very small by modern standards, traffic mainly seems to have been in their own containers to the UK and Europe they are likely to have acted as a feeder to shipping companies that did not operate a direct service to Ireland. Good selection of Bell shipping http://www.irishships.com/bell_lines.html including Bell Ruler with a cargo of OCL containers. Its possible that Murray Kitchens in Youghal and Waterford Co-Operative in Dungarvan would have generated reasonable railborne container traffic for a Cork-Waterford line. CIE operated a warehousing and distribution services for Murray Kitchens during the mid-late 70s joinery was transported in CIE containers rail was used for the trunk haul between North Esk and Heuston Goods with road collection and delivery by CIE road services 2-3 containers daily, insulated and reefer containers would have been required for Waterford Cooperative traffic.

David Holman has built wagons for his Arigna Town & Clogher Valley layouts using resin castings produced with plasticard masters, page 10 of his workbench covers the Clohgher Valley vans.

The Worsley Works Kits are intended as scratchbuilders aids for experienced modellers, basically saving the work of cutting out parts with a piercing saw or by drilling and filing. The Worsley Works Kits are more basic than the current generation of etched brass kits and do not include the slot and tab and modular construction used to simplify construction in kits like the SSM SG-SG2 0-6-0. Apart from the castings mentioned by Weshty you will need brass tube for boiler, wheels, gearbox, motor, bearings, 0.45 & 0.7mm brass wire for handrails and pipework, handrail knobs and small metric or 8 & 10BA nuts and bolts to assemble the loco, solder, flux and specialist tools. There are fewer suppliers of scratch/kit building components Markits carry a wide range of parts and their wheels are bullet proof for OO http://www.markits.com/. Alan Gibson produces a large range of components including things including straight brass wire in various diameters and handrail knobs, Alan Gibson loco wheels are not as easy to set up or durable as the Markits Wheels. http://www.alangibsonworkshop.com/. High level Kits http://173.254.28.51/~highlev3/chris/Pages/ and Branchlines PO Box 4293, Westbury, Wiltshire BA13 9AA 01373 822231 Supply motors and gear boxes with a wide range of reductions for 4mm locos. On the plus side scratchbuilding or building a loco from a kit can be a much more satisfying experience than buying read to run and a loco with Markits Wheels, good quality motor and High Level or Branchlines gearbox is likely to out perform and outlast a lot of modern RTR locos. Probably best to start out with a good book to get an idea of whats involved in etched loco construction, Iain Rices Etched Locomotive Construction has been my bible since published https://www.amazon.com/Etched-Loco-Construction-Iain-Rice/dp/090686786X, failing that DLTs LSWR K10 thread on RM Web is a good example of the challenges involved in assembling older more basic loco kits. Some of my notes on assembling a SSM MGWR tank which is close in terms of general design to Worsley Works kits 5 years later I still haven't finished this loco or the NZR tank, 21mm gauge has the advantage over OO of allowing the motor to fit between the frames

Great story Jonathan. Taking over a Midland Standard Goods or a much larger Cattle Engine for the first time could open many traps for an un-suspecting ex-GSWR driver at Tuam or Athenry. The ex-MGWR "Standard Goods" GSR J18 & 19 classes were supposed to be roughly equivalent to a J15 in terms of performance, but required different driving technique with their smaller firebox and valve gear design. They also had a reputation of having weak loco brakes, originally the locos were built with steam brakes and converted to vacuum which was less effective by the GSR. The reversing gear on the Cattle Engines was set up opposite to standard practice, a driver literally had to put the loco in what was normally reverse to go forward, potentially setting up a deadly trap for shunters and guards. There were a few crippled wagons with ripped out ends and drawgear on the CIE system even into the late 1970s, including a H Van on the headshunt/layby at the Eastern end of Moate and a GNR(I) standard van in the yard at Patrickswell along with a marked off CIE 20T goods van. Presumably such wagons were not considered worth repairing or hauling to Mullingar for scrapping and were burned/scrapped when the sidings were lifted

Managed to play trains on Christmas day, while daughter was busy assembling her Lego and wife and mother in law taking it easy all in all a very relaxing day (turkey had a luck escape!!) Operation was reasonably trouble free the only glitch was C19 -2-8-0 348 stalling with 5 cars on the 4% grade to the garden shed. The problem was solved by 348 setting out 2 cars at the Junction for collection by K27 2-8-2 464 with a following freight. 348 then assisted 464 on the 4% The video was filmed with a 7 year old FujiPix S5700 on a tripod not sure whether I would have got better resolution with my I Phone

Hi Tony Having followed your threads for over a year, I was not sure whether it was better to respond on this or your Omagh station thread. Building a realistic model of a large junction station like Omagh in a 6'X10' (external) shed in N or OO was always going to be a challenge particularly in terms or acceptable minimum radius curve for OO track and train length. I think it would be worthwhile to lay a temporary oval of track in your shed using Peco radius 2 &3 settrack for the curves to test the concept of your layout and above all get a better impression of how your trains will look on the curves. I would consider re-hanging the shed door to open outwards (if it does not already) with a lift out section of track inside the door so that you can make better use of the space. It might be worth while considering a scheme from one of the Peco planning books such as 60 Plans for railways in small spaces, rather than trying to squeeze a quart into a pint pot. Building suitable locos & rolling stock for a model of the Derry Road would be a lot more challenging and time consuming in N compared with working in OO considering the near absence of suitable kits and the challenges of working in a smaller scale.