Mayner

Dave Did you ever come across the all whitemetal version of the A Class? I built one from a kit suppled by MIR about 20 years ago a very trying experience. The roof & bogie sidefame castings very similar or the same as your loco. The end casting were not quite symmetrical giving the impression the loco was trying to wink.

The ESSO Teo tank wagons appear to have been imported from the UK in the late 60s most were Class B which had a longer tank barrel than the Dapol model though a few Type B appear to have been imported. The fillet between the tank and chassis was a feature of most CIE tank wagons built/introduced in the 1970s, eventually applied to the ESSO tank cars. Its fairly simple to convert the Dapol kit to a Type A by splicing sections from another kit on to each end of the barrel and sanding smooth. Its probably better to look out for un-built Airfix kits of these wagons on e-bay than attempt to build the current Dapol version. Its difficult to build a chassis that runs well as the solebars of the Dapol version tend to warp and twist, combination of being wrapped in a bag and the soapy nature of the plastic.

Great to see the amount of carriagebuilding this thread is bringing out of the woodwork. Probably going a bit off topic its important to remember that in the 50 & 60s uniform rakes of coaches were rare, particularly with loco hauled trains CIE regularly ran mixed modern and older coaches in the one train. Pre & post amalgamation coaching stock built in the 1920s relatively modern but dated in appearance was still in top-link service in the 1950s The green Models/Bachmann coaches would make a reasonable rake of these vehicles. The new coaches probably displaced some of the older bogie coaches from main line service, in turn to replace (but not completely) 6 wheelers on branch and suburban duties. Some of the classics include a new Composite and a GSWR 6w 3rd brake at Loughrea and a steam hauled Thurles-Clonmel train with an ancient looking bogie coach sandwitched between a MGWR 6 w caboose Brake 3rd and a silver heating van. Possiby a Waterford-Limerick train with two of the newer coaches, a GSWR coach and a string of vans. What looks line a Kingsbridge-Tralee express leaving Mallow, modern CIE coach possibly composite or 1st, Pullman Dining car and a rake of early GSR/late GSWR corridor coaches. I could not resist this one powerful Coey 4-4-0 with a tin van, GSWR bogie coach and MGWR brake van probably Thurles-Clonmel branch train. Some of the Clonmel trains connected with Dublin-Limerick (via Nenagh) trains at Ballybrophy with a featherweight load and a high speed run down the main line to Thurles.

As far as I recall the Ammonia tank wagon chassis were on lease the tank barrels owned by IFI (ICI). Like the ESSO tank wagons the Ammonia tank wagons were scrapped converting a small batch of low-capacity wagons to run in Europe or the UK would have been uneconomic. The obsolete nature and high average age was probably the most noticeable nature of the IE wagon fleet, the cement bubbles and tank wagons lasting the best part of 50 years in service, in contrast the GSR inherited a more modern wagon fleet from the pre-amalgamation companies, the CIE built H vans barely lasted 25 years.

Unlike BR CIE went through 4 distinct design stages with its coaches up to the arrival of the Cravens in 1963. After building the Park Royals & Laminates CIE reverted to traditional wooden framed construction for the final batch of Inchacore designed coaches Bredin MK3? SO 1497-1503 & FO 1145-1146. These coaches had the squarer profile of the MK2 Bredin SO 1356-1371 built in 1953.rather than the tear drop profile of the laminates. Generally CIE SO had 2+2 seating for 64 passengers arranged in 8 seating bays & one toilet , the main line Park Royals & 1429-1443 Laminates originally had 3+2 seating for 70 passengers in 7 seating bays and two toilets. There were basically four types of laminate coach 70 seater SO 1429-1443, 64 seater SO 1449-1496, 40 Seater BSO 1909-1913, non-lavatory (suburban) SO 2162-2171. The Laminate suburbans were converted into BSO 1914-1923 in 1970.

Nice to see photos of the E401s used to look out for them shuttling around Heuston from the upper deck of the 23 Bus as a teenager on the weekly Saturday morning trip in to town to check out Southern Sothern Model Railways, Terry's Toy Shop in Georges or Henry Street, a record in Dolphin Discs and more trains in Monck Place no similar delights n the way home on the 22 or 50. Introduced in silver the E401s were basically Southern locos working on ex-GSWR lines in the Dublin area, Cork & Tralee. There I a photo of a silver on somewhere shunting Fenit Pier, one was also tried on the Courtmacsharry line that twig off the Clonakilty branch of the West Cork. In addition to shunting and banking E401s were used to work the heavy Heuston-North Wall transfer freights. These trains required banking in each direction to the summit at Cabra. Loads were reduced and B101s took over after a number of run-aways when an E Class did not have enough brake power to control a loose coupled train on the grade from Cabra to Islandbridge Junction. In later years some of the E401s lost the exhaust silencer housing on top of the bonnet, the build up of oil in the silencer tended to catch fire when the loco was worked hard.

3223 is a great example of CIEs make do and mend approach to running the railway in the 70s ad DCDR ingenuity. Originally built as a main line composite she was rebuilt into a 2562-2591 series luggage brake with a central guards compartment and two large luggage compartments for parcel and mail trains in the early 1970s. Converted into a Brake Generator Steam Van and re-numbered 3223 around 1980, she appears o have regained her passenger accommodation at Downpatrick and converted to a Brake Second Generator Steam Push-Pull Driving Van

MGWR Meat Van The hopefully final test etch arrived today so should be able to release the kit in February I hope to release the container flats mid-2015 once I have sorted the masters for the springs, buffers & container cuplocks.

Mark took over management of the Southern Model Railway business in the Grafton Arcade some time in the late 70s. The move to Dolier Street and change from a specialist model railway to a hobby shop probably saved the business. The Grafton Arcade shop always seemed to be quite more a place for regulars to meet than a thriving business. The change was quite abrupt existing magazine orders were cancelled without notice one day it was Eddie Elliott and business as usual next day it was Mark. The move to Dolier Street took place before 1980, I was building an N gauge layout at the time Peco points were scarce and I managed to pick up enough to complete the layout during a visit to Dolier Street.

Dart Castings have added some Irish items to the MJT range of detail castings website. http://www.dartcastings.co.uk/mjt.php#WagonComponents-Axleboxes & Springs. The castings were commissioned for the forthcoming JM Design MGWR Horse Box and Meat Van due for release in February 15. The springs and axlebox may be suitable for other companies rolling stock.

Noel. I am not sure whether you are thinking of the Dapol kits or the JM Design "Bredin" overlays. The old Hornby Stanier coaches can be re-painted into a passable CIE, NCC or UTA side corridor coach. The Bredin and Stanier compartment and window layout differed, the toilet compartments were in the middle on the Bredins rather than the ends with the Stanier coaches. The JM Design sides are designed around the Dapol/Airfix 60' Stanier coach, designing sides to fit the Dapol & Hornby 57' Stainers would have considerably distorted the proportions.

The Dapol Stanier suburban coaches are available in kit form direct from the manufacturer http://dapol.co.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=177_60_87_220. Once fitted with an arc roof the old Triang/Triang-Hornby 45' Clerestory coach are very close to some of the bogie coaches built by the GSWR, WLWR & CBSCR built in the late 1890s early 1900s. http://www.tri-angman.co.uk/?page_id=3&category=4&product_id=4431. The longer Hornby Clerestory corridor coaches are similar in styling and outline to the stock built for the opening of the Cork-Rosslare boat train route in the early 1900s. The Rosslare coaches some of which ran on 6 wheel bogies were in service up to the early 60s, 861? remained in use on the Inchacore Taxi into the early 70s and was preserved by the RPS!

Kieran Quite a contrast between the CAFs & Bredins. Well done with the roof detail and fitting the drop lights to the Bredins, I haven't gotten round to detailing the sample coaches. I shaped & fixed the pipework into position on the roof and ends of a SSM Bredin then simply made a cut at both ends using a Zurcon rail cutter. alternatively a suitable piece of brass tube could make a joiner. The end detail on the GSR & CIE Bredins was slightly different with the emergency brake equipment placed lower on the GSR coaches and curving around the top of the gangway,

http://www.marksmodels.com/?pid=17293 To quote Marks Models "THIS MODEL IS NOT AN ACCURATE REPRODUCTION, BUT IS SIMILAR TO COACHES OF THIS PERIOD PRODUCED EXCLUSIVLY FOR MARKS MODELS" The Dapol coaches basically look the part & are similar in general styling and appearance though shorter than GSR non-corridor suburban stock built in the late 20s. (Code:MAR1001)

New Irish Lines Vol 2. No 6 2001 http://newirishlines.org/archive-2/ includes an article by Chris Aspinwall & Alan O'Rourke on Irish private owner tank wagons the article includes photos and details of both Dublin & Belfast registered tank wagons but breaks off before the introduction of more modern wagons by Caltex and ESSO in the 1960s.

Very tasty job on the tank wagons Patrick. The Bachmann model really lifted the standard for rtr tank wagons and a good candidate for limited run production for Irish Shell, Mc Mullen Brothers, Mex. The silver tank barrel with horizontal red stripe or red solebars was an early form of hazmat marking applied to distinguish Type A tank wagons used carry petrol and other highly flammable liquids from the usually black Type B tank wagons used to carry heavy fuel oil and other flammable liquids. The position of the red strip tended to vary between the centre of the barrel and solebars, silver gave way to light grey in the 60s. The type A & B tank wagons had different discharge arrangements petrol was basically siphoned out of a Type A tank wagon with U tube arrangement on top of the barrel, heavy fuel oil though a valve under a Type B tank wagon. The Type A tank wagons tended to look cleaner than the Type B without the usual build up of grunge around the tank filler usually seen on wagons used to transport heavy fuel oil and bitumen

Not quite as bad as 1947 Dublin was more or less cut off from the rest of the country by a blizzard on a Friday in January 81 or 82. Most of the roads in the higher area of South Dublin were blocked by drifts by early morning, the Naas Road blocked around Rathcoole by early afternoon. At Heuston CIE staff worked to keep trains moving clearing snow from around points. The station became a gathering place for people marooned by the storm, a train was used to provide an emergency night shelter for people from the storm. More snow fell overnight most roads in Dublin were blocked, the Government chartered a special train to transport milk powder from Cork to Dublin. Most of the railway lines were cleared quickly though it took a week to re-open the Sligo line knocked out by a combination of fallen trees and telegraph/telephone lines. To be prepared for the next winter CIE acquired a small plough for use with the 071 Class, it usually lived in Inchacore not sure if it was ever used in anger.

I can certainly relate to an unfinished projects thread. About 10-12 years ago I stumbled across a collection of unfinished TMD (pre-SSM) loco kits at an exhibition in the UK. The locos were mainly GNR, but included part built J15 and a un-built MGWR E Class or J26. The original builder worked in P4 and had got stuck at the stage of building a free running chassis before giving up with the majority of the kits. I managed to get 4 of the locos running to a reasonable standard 2 in OO 2 in 21mm within year, but still have not finished the J15 or the Midland tank while the list of unfinished projects seems to get longer and longer.

The Westrail excursion train operation at Tuam evolved out of an unsuccessful attempt to re-open the Loughrea Branch. The original mainly volunteer lead West of Ireland Steam Railway Association (WISRA) planned to re-open the branch in stages working South from a base at Attymon Junction with the intention of leasing the line from CIE. The change in direction came about as a result of a combination of CIEs decision to close Attymon as a block post severing the main line connection, the realisation of the enormity of funding and restoring even a short section of line together with little support for the scheme at the Loughrea end. The local mart built an access road through the station yard before the line was abandoned and track lifted in the 80s. Few suitable main line coaches were available when the society made its first purchases, most of the coaches and engineers stock were pre-amalgamation in Departmental use requiring major restoration work, nearly impossible without a decent engineering base. The Tuam operation was more pragmatic and achievable than Attymon, but dependent on the continued operation of the Limerick-Claremorris line and the goodwill of IE for access to the network. Initially the outlook looked good as large numbers of ex-main line coaches in reasonable condition became available to preservationists following the commissioning of the DART and introduction of the MK3 coaches. No 90 was restored to operation and re-boilered in the early 1990s, agreement appears to have been reached for the long term loan of ex SLNCR 0-6-4T Lough Erne to provide a more suitable & powerful loco for main line operation. The tipping point appears to have been the temporary closure of the Ennis-Claremorris line in the early 1990s lead to the cancellation of the established Galway operations. During the final season of operation No 90 operated between Cork & Cobh in connection with the Cobh Heritage Centre. The operation does not appear to have been a financial success with disappointing passenger loadings and a higher cost structure than Galway with hired IE coaching stock and staff accommodation and travel costs. IE disconnecting the yard at Tuam seems to have been the final straw, having been through a similar situation with CIE at Attymon 10 years earlier. In retrospect it would be difficult to see the operation continuing unless Westrail had the resources IE and Galway County Council backing to take over the maintenance of the Athenry-Tuam line. From a railfans point of view the original WISRA rolling stock was more interesting and varied than the more uniform Westrail MK2 Bredin stock. The original coaches were mainly ex-GSWR stock demoted to departmental use, along with the usual opens and vans wagon stock included some unique items including the last GNR Bulk Cement wagon, MGWR & GSWR ballast hoppers, a MGWR rail wagon, a pair of Shell-Mex Class A (Petrol) tank wagons and last but not least the ex-GSWR 12t brake van regularly used on the Loughrea Branch. The preservation of G613 was significant the first diesel loco to regularly work the Loughrea Branch. Others were harder to explain the survival and presentation of Sulzer B113 Ireland's 1st Main Line diesel electric locomotive to the UFTM is probably down to WISRA who reserved the loco but CIE were unwilling to tow the loco on the main line.

The CIE would probably have ended up with G12s in place of the A Class & G8 in place of C Class if I had gone to GM in place of Metrovick in the 50s. In the early 50s GM also submitted a proposal to supply G8s to the GNR & UTA the light weight GL8 (121 & Victoria Railways T) did not appear until the early 60s.

The Black and Tan and Supertrain styling was almost pure GM with the use of strikingly contrasting colours. I wonder was the Swedish design firm that came up with the Black and Tan colour scheme influenced by the Norwegian GM demonstrators or was CIE still hankering after an American style streamliner after GSR/CIE senior management visited the states in the 1940s. At one stage it was planned to operate the Dublin-Waterford & Dublin-Limerick via Nenagh services with MK2D push pull fitted sets. I always thought that a 6-7 car set topped and tailed with a pair of rebuilt baby Metrovicks similar to the Enterprise would have speeded up these services and made a nice pocket streamliner.

It looks like a lot of work went into the original chassis, it looks like it would have been really smooth riding and a powerful puller with double reduction gearing and drive to each bogie. I tried the same principal with a couple of diesel shunters great runners but sounded like coffee grinders. The MIR GM diesels were quite good in comparison with other resin and whitemetal kits of that era, locos built with a combination of an Athearn drive and whitemetal body could pull any train.

Info on the Kernow DJ models Class 71. http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/page/74/DJ_Models_Class_71_Project

One that did not make it Australian example of crowd funding attempt for an N Gauge loco. €58000 pledged at €350 a skull. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1560185090/n-scale-nswgr-ad60-garratt-locomotive.

Interesting topic I suppose the most critical thing is a structure to safeguard the money invested in the fund until the goods arrives. Funding Paddy Murphy, or one of the more established model shops to commission a rtr model seems to be the best option for a mass produced model. There is also the option of commissioning a limited run of rtr models through some of the professional model maker that post on this site. I suppose one of the key questions is whether modellers investing money up front on a new model would have a depressing effect on the sales of Murphy Models current range and on smaller manufacturers. Richie that E Class is a beautiful looking job, I looked at producing a version combining resin casting and etched detail 3-4 years ago, if you are interested I may be able to sort out a set of detail parts including buffer beams, cab windows, roof, engine compartment, doors & grills