Mayner

Although I have vague early childhood memories of a big blue steam loco with smoke deflectors 207? and dark green railcars on seaside trips in our Fiat Topilino to Gormanstown my first longish rail journey was on a day trip to Butlins in an AEC railcar as a teenager in the early 70s. We took our usual position immediately behind the driver, I am not sure if the Drogheda and Dundalk trains started from the Main Line or Loop Line platforms, CIE had only recently introduced large scale through running between Bray & Howth following alterations at East Road, previously there was only a single line North facing connection from the Loop Line to the Down Belfast line immediately past the end of the platforms. Crossing Spencer Dock the sidings on the South side of the dock were still in place but out of use, this siding once lead to coal yards and cattle docks in the Mayor Street area now occupied by banks and the Dockland College. The Midland yard was still a traditional goods yard chock full of wagons, at East Wall Junction the line from the North Wall trailed in on the Up side, GNR signals were perculiar with short arms and some posts were telegraph poles. The area past the Roadstone ready-mix plant at East Wall Road was still tidal slobland, no sign of landfill or industrial development. Access to the plant was interesting with a Bailey bridge across the Tolka. Clontarf Railcar depot was unchanged since GNR days with 3 roads through the shed and a loop alongside the main line, signals change from semaphore to 3? aspect colour light the first sign of modern infrastructure from Clontarf Road to Howth Junction. Some outer-suburban trains ran semi-fast I am not sure if we stopped at Killester or Harmonstown, Raheny was still pretty much a country station with housing development concentrated along the Howth Road. At the time Howth Junction was quite rural a couple of railway houses and Palm Trees on the platform between the main Line and Howth Branch. The journey settled down into a steady pattern, with a few people getting on or off at intermediate stations, most were still handling good traffic with wagons in the yards at Portmarnock, Rush and Lusk, Skerries, Balbriggan and even Gormanstown. The driver saluted the drivers of approaching trains and acknowledged station staff and track workers. In those days a ganger raising his right arm was a signal to the driver that he was aware of the train and everyone in the clear, no high vis jackets or radio communication. The rides at Butlins were brilliant for 14-15 year olds in the days before theme parks, there were a few anxious moments on the train back to Dublin in an ex GNR corridor coach behind a black and tan B141 we had never been on an express before and wernt sure if we werre going to end up in Belfast, Dublin or Cork or maybe wishfull thinking, we were brought back to reality when the train as checked for about 5 minutes at East Wall Junction nothing ever changes. Around the same time we explored the Howth branch which at the time did not have the attractions of Bray, Bayside was under construction Sutton and Howth full of GNR atmosphere. The Hill of Howth car shed still in existance and the yard still in use, Howth had a single platform with run round loop and a siding by the sea wall sleepers covered in sand. The stub of the Hill of Howth Tramway was in use as a private siding into Parsons steel work with a Bulleid open full of swarf and waste steel. A few years later possibly 1976 I went on an IRRS special behind a 001 Class to Kingscourt, Drogheda was really modellable in those days, natural tree lined backdrop between the station and Buckleys yard, North and South signal cabins, loco depot Buckleys siding, two goods yards and a reversing move to access the Navan Branch. There was no facing connection from the Down Belfast line to the branch, trains from the South had to set back past the South Signal Cabin over a trailing crossover onto the Up Main before moving forward onto the branch, presumably a single slip formed one leg of the crossover, the Oldcastle trains used to start either from the main line platforms or the present day bay platform. Another oddity was that the staff for the branch was raised and lowered in a basket from the very tall cabin, the yards were cramped and most shunting moves would have fouled the main lines, the middle road seem to be used to store wagons placed by the yard shunter or pilot loco awaiting pick up by main line trains. The contrast between the GNR line to Navan and MGWR to Kingscourt was striking, the GNR line had a more main line atmosphere with bullhead rail on chairs and impressive station buildings, Duleek and Beauparc had closed at that stage, though the wooden railcar halt at Lougher was still in existance. Business at Navan looked healthy with about 20 H vans and a pair of Guinness Keg flats in the yard. Navan had a 16t fixed gantry similar to Tralee, Dromad and other stations, presumably as a railhead for Kells, Oldcastle and possibly Cavan. The site of Navan Junction was all but obliterated but preparation work had started on the siding to Tara Mines. At the time the Kingscourt line was still laid with MGWR FB rail spiked directly to sleepers, ballast was not too plentiful, while the line from Clonsilla Junction to Navan was built to main line standards without a single public level crossing, the Kingscourt line is quite the opposite, stations were modest built from the local brick. All intermediate stations were closed and sidings lifted these stations followed a common platform with a single platform and goods loop serving a loading bank, Nobber and Kilmainham Wood had separate store road. Kingscourt was pretty much intact with the track layout pretty much as in Midland days with two sidings on the down side in the area now occupied by the Gypsum store. These were connected to the main line by a trailing crossover near the platform end, yard side of the crossover was pure Midland with a double slip similar to Edenderry. Gypsum was loaded by a turntable arrangement at the North end of the yard sited between the headshunt for the loco release and the one time caattle bank siding. Although the turntable was still in existance the loco shed ws demolished. Although hopper wagons were normally in use, gypsum for Platin appears to have been loaded out in Bulleid Opens the yard was full of empty and laden wagons. One oddity survived at Kingscourt an ex-GNR 6w ballast wagon which may have been used to carry sleepers. At one stage bricks from the local factory was an important source of traffic with a loading bank and crane by the running line rather than a separate siding.

Early 70s I was probably 14 possibly 15 listened to Radio Luxenburg & Thin Lizzy but hadn't yet progressed to the purple flares and afro hairstyle. During the school holidays a cousin who was an apprentice barman used to take me and his younger sister by train on day trips to the seaside, on his day off probably a Wendesday. Bray was the normal destination but we had one trip to Bultins. We lived in Crumlin and would normally catch the train at Tara Street a brisk walk from the Bus Terminus in Fleet Street or else a long walk to Amiens St for the train to Mosney. AEC railcars seemed to be the norm for off peak working in those years though my first trip by train was in a GSR or possibly GSWR non-corridor from Killiney to Tara St possibly behind a black C or A Class. My mother and her sisters took us on a summer weekday outing by bus to Dalkey and a walk towards Killiney wheer the train seemed the only means of getting home. The best thing about the railcars was the view ahead sitting in the row behind the driver, sometimes in 1st Class seating though these sets normally seem to terminate at Pearse possibly outer suburban workings from Drogheda. At the time there was a lot of interest the Amiens Street-Dun Laoire section was particulary interesting still with its GSR power signalling system, 1930s style signal cabins at Amiens St and the overtrack cabin south of Westland Row, manned crossing boxes between Landsdown Road and Merrion Gates, Mailvans at Westland Row, The Boston carriage sidings and Grand Canal Street Shed still a diesel depot responsible for supplying power for Galway and West of Ireland workings, light engine movements of 121 Class for turning between Westland Row and Amiens Street. Very little freight on this section a few cattle wagons at cattle bank at IMP Grand Canal Street, horse boxes and cattle wagons stored at the RDS sidings, mainly used for stabling and turning IRFU specials to Landsdown Road. Freight had all but ceased at Dun Laoire with the odd wagon to Irish Lights. Parcel traffic seemed busy often with a Sulzer and a parcel train in the original D&K station. In those days we would only see a mail train when meeting visitors off the Mail Boat or a Thursday evening buying freshly caught fish at Crofton Road bridge. The railcars were getting on a bit and as BR, CIE, NZR and UTA found out British Leyland had little or no interest in supplying spares to the railways. As the engines and transmissions became more work the railcars struggled with the long climb to the Vico Road tunnel, on one day we were treated to a sauna as the interior of the leading car filled with steam on the climb from Sandycove to Dalkey, once over the top the rest of the journey was uneventfull. Dalkey was in a way the first country station on the line, it acted as a terminus for some peak hour cross-city working, North Bound trains could depart from the down platform. Occasionally a couple of open wagons presumably with briquettes for the signal mans fire would be left in the goods yard, which later beacme a temporary home for the 3 Sugar Puff locos. Killiney though normally switched out was another station that was signalled for reversible working. The approach to Bray was interesting the course of the original coastal line between Ballybrack and Bray was visible in many places, the base of the signal cabin at the Junction of the Harcourt St line was in use as a platelayer hut and the trackbed was clear towards Shankill. The magnificent lattice signal gantries dominated the Northern approach to Bray the harbour and sea front briefly came into view before being obscurred by Victorian and Edwardian hotels and guest houses. Most trains crossover onto the up line and the main station platform, the layout was unchanged from GSR days the cattle bank siding at the North end was mainly used by the engineers, the carriage siding on the down side was once used for charging Drumm units leaving the station we would run down the alleyway buying ice creams and large bottles of lemonade as we planned our day. Usually a dip in the sea, followed by climbing Bray Head, then the ammusement arcades (mainly the dodgems) before going to the chipper and the train home to Dublin. If we had time or I was let I would check out the railways side of things, the goods yard was still in use with a couple of H vans outside the goods shed, probably sending out Solus light bulbs from the local factory, there always seems to have been a Solus van in the yard, a couple of open wagons of briquettes for the station and signal box fires. The loco shed was still roofed and in use as a loco depot though the 3 long carriage sidings on the up-side at the south end of the yard were out of use and partially lifted. These were later brought back into use as storage for new container wagons and and later DART units. In those days services south of Bray seems to have been very scarce, apart from the Rosslare trains, services were aimed mainly at commuters with a daily service from Wicklow to Dublin and return and a slightly more frequent service from Greystone. A couple of incidents stick in my mind from that period or slightly later (a) A heated discussion with a family member at Bray that there was no way CIE would paintthe side of a railway carriage black, it had to be dark blue. (b) A family grumbling about having to pay a return fare between Greystones and Connolly during the CIE "Great Train Robbery" half fare on "Main Line Trains" promotion. Did CIE think Greystones was "bog railway"? or words to that effect. For me the myth exploded a few years later, Bray was no longer a place spend a summer afternoon or the railway the most pleasent way of getting there. DART seemed to bring some of the pride in the job back, the journey around the head either in a railcar or a proper train one of the Worlds greatest short train journies, but nothing compared to sitting up behind the driver for the first time apart from taking control of the throttle and brake.

Nostalgia is a funny thing I have similar stories from about 20 years ago communting on Network South East and Scotrail and once even fell asleep and missed my stop after a few after work drinks with friends. While I have vague memories of trips in AEC railcars to Bray and Mosney, BR Class 158 Super Sprinters in Scotland and 321 EMUs bring back the fondest memories.

The LNER & Eastern Region had a great tradition of high speed, the region went for the Deltics in the early 60s as the only diesels that could match the streaks for power and speed. John

A trip to Hong Kong with a deposit of $20k up front for the initial CAD work and the deeds to your house as security . It will be interesting to see how Arran gets on with comissioning a container flat, business with China is based very much on being prepared to work face to face with the manufacturers and their agents. I think one of the main problems is that Far Eastern manufacture has raised unrealistic expectations about quality and price, locos seem to sell fairly well mainly because of demand from collectors who want every variation of each loco produced, for every wagon or coach sold. The availability of decent rtr locos has shifted the focus from scratch & kit building and modification to rtr models which has opened up opportunities for batch builders of RTR stock like D&M with their 2600 DMUs & Enterprise stock. 20 years ago I some one told me professional model makers were producing limited run rtr railcars or coaches I would tell them to see a shrink. The next few years should be interesting for rtr greater access to computer and 3d modelling and desk top manufacture and higher prices from the Far East could make local manufacture more economic.

Another fairly productive weekend in 3 different scales, I basically promised myself that I would concentrate on finishing projects I had already started, though I have built some baseboards . The J26 is starting to look like a loco, with just some details to complete before painting. The funnel & safety valve covers are temporary, the kit is supplied in its original condition the MGWR reboilered the locos before WW1 & GSR/CIE fited riveted smokeboxes and built up chimneys in the 1940s. The smokebox is my own and Des is sending a GNR "Ross Pop" safety valve cover & J15 chimney for my CIE version. The E Class was Terry McDermotts first Irish etched brass kit released 30 years ago, and although complete building the loco is more like assembling a scratch-built loco (without having to cut out the parts) than the later TMD & SSM kits. The main change from the instructions is I built the loco with a removabe roof, so I can model the cab interior, this involves removing the tabs from above the cab sides and a brass strip arrangement to hold the roof in place. I built one of these locos in the 80s with a then state of the art Anchorage DS10 motor and Mike Sharman 40:1 gear box, the current loco has a Mashima motor and a Branchlines 52:1 multi-stage gear box which keeps the cab clear and provides greater low speed torque needed for freight and shunting work. The Midland introduced these locos for branch line working and shunting and they seem to have worked mainly on the shorter branch lines like Loughrea, Edenderry & Athboy until replaced by tender locos or the ending of passenger services. In GSR days 3 were transferred to the Tramore line, others ended up in Cork and Tralee. They seem to have been a fixture as station pilot in Galway, while one of the last working at Liffey Junction until replaced by a G Class. F Class injector. Pipe on the top right hand side is the live steam supply, the U shaped contraption is the pipe from the saddle tank, crooked pipe on the left feed to the boiler, vertical pipe overflow. Compared with an Irish loco detailing an NZR loco is fun and games, despite having a load of photos I ended up crawling over F185 in the dark to figure out the plumbing but thats another story. Most of the detail castings are in cast brass which is an absoute swine to drill, fortunately I got a drill press for Christmas, I basically drilled out the pilot hoes in the castings and used Loctite rather than solder to secure the pipework. The injector well injects water from the saddle tank into the boiler using live steam. Getting there. Plumbing more or less fitted, the loco body splits in 4 sub assemblies, with the saddle tank, smokebox and firebox as one unit, the cab and bunker are removable. On the large scale side body work modifications are nearly complete to the GE end cabbed diesel, I am thinking of a DRGW diesel scheme dark gray with tiger stripes on the ends, there has been a surprise spurt with the 2-8-0, I have narrowed the tender body by 1/2" and fitted the cab roof and the loco is now in proportion with the rest of my LGB & Bachmann stock. DRGW C21 Mudhen? This started life as a Bachmann Connie 2-8-0 a 1:20.3 scale model of a Mexican 2'6" gauge loco which is out of proportion both with 1:20.3 scale American 3' gauge stock and Bachmann & LGBs 1:22 scale narrow gauge stock. Apart from the new cab the loco has lost its outside Baker valve gear and the running boards have been narrowed and the head amp moved from the middle to the top of the smokebox. This will probably be battery remote control like the diesel as the Digitrax RC has proved un-reliable in the garden.

http://chestermodelrailwayclub.com/dingle.htm Should be worth visiting Blennerville between 30May & 1 June the last run with the original stock and John Campbells & Neil Ramseys live steam live steam models on display.

A 121 would be easy enough to produce either as a kit or a one piece body shell the real question is whether it would make commercial sence having to buy and modify a 141 with Paddy's loco at some stage in the future.

Ex-GNR BUT railcars also worked on the Wexford line as they were slightly more powerful than the AEC there is a picture of a set in mixed black & tan, green and blue & cream at Macmine Junction before the station and North Wexford line closed. I remember reading somewhere that in the mid-late 60s Wexford trains were often made up as 4 car sets of railcars and powered intermediates in order to keep time on the grades.

I saw Adavoyle Junction in its early stages at a model railway exhibition in Bristol about 25 years ago, the minute he saw I was interested Tony invited me in to have a play and explain how his locos were built.

I am trying to gauge the potential interest in a kit for the 20' steel floored flats use under the bagged cement, beet doubles and early container wagons. The pattern maker who is a professional UK model maker has basically completed the masters for the MGWR van and I am looking at the flats as a follow on. The kit will be suitable for 21mm & OO Gauge would combine a brass floor and 1 piece fold up underframe with whitemetal solebars, headstocks and buffers with etched brass brake gear and details. Going on past performance we are looking on at least a 12month lead time from planning to production. Spring, axlebox, siphon vent patterns MGWR Meat & Horse Box.

As GM171 saidThe Dapol Prestwin is probably the best starting place for OO. If you are looking at doing your own underframe Dart Castings/MJT produce a useful range of castings for springs, axleboxes and buffers, but nothing exactly suitable for CIE.

I suppose it boils down to balancing expectations and price. Leslie initially mentioned a 20' skeleton container flat, Bulleid Open and possibly a Cement bubble in the £20-30, in resin similar to Leslies other hand built wagons. Presumably hand finished vacuum resin castings from a scratchbuilt master. A number of people have suggested using a proprietary rtr chassis, the main draw back is that the Dapol or Bachmann chassis are too long and narrow and have running gear that does not look remotely like the standard CIE 20' chassis and they are absolutly no use for a skeletal flat. Provincial Wagons have already proven a correct chassis can be done with the GNR Cattle and Covered Goods Vans, there is little point in continuing to go down the same road using proprietary chassis as IFM & MISOR. The Dapol Prestwin is a tad short but would pass muster for a steel decked wagon or cement bubble, but would add considerably to the final cost. Although I have not seen the Provincial Wagons or MISOR Guinness container wagons in the flesh, the MISOR wagon appears to be a higher priced but better model with the Bachmann chassis set back behind a set of cosmetic solebars presumably cast as part of the wagon deck. As far as the quality of the product goes no one is buying blind the quality of the models is pretty evident from PM & IFM have websites/price lists all of which have photos of the wagons.

Rich has basically said what I was going to say if someone is going to the trouble of comissioning a rtr chassis the cost of tooling up and producing a chassis of the right width will not to affect the cost. A narrow OO width chassis will look crap too narrow for OO Gauge container or wagon body. The problem of fitting OO gauge wheelsets can be got round by using a longer axle or forming a boss on the back of the axle guard, like the old MIR wagons I think an injection moulded or die cast bogie flat on injection moulded bogies would be a better option for a rtr model than a 4 wheeler. The main problem with the 4 wheelers is an injection or resin model would be too light and a die cast chassis more expensive and complex to manufacture.

I dont think anyone has asked for 21mm gauge rtr models, but if someone is going to the trouble of designing or commissioning a wagon or coach its a small step to at least explore the option of specifying OO Gauge wheel sets on 28mm axles. As Rich hinted the main issue with the skeletal flats and oil tankers is that its impossible to design a chassis that looks remotely right unless the solebars and axleguards are in the correct position. MIR managed to produce whitemetal wagon kits that were easy to re-gauge 30 years ago, so there should be little problem in designing a model with the solebars, axleboxes and brake shoes in the right position, the set up costs for OO wheelsets with slightly longer axles should be minimal on a run of 1000 wagons. Personally modelling Irish Broad Gauge using HO or EM gauge track creates more problems than it solves, as apart from having to scratchbuild everything the track is now a different scale to the models. For "modern image" its probably best to stick with 4mm its basically a matter of swapping out the wheelsets with MM diesels and replacing coach and wagon bogies, for steam outline the Tyrconnel & North Star kits are probably the way to go, its an easier scale to work in and Slaters supply suitable wheel sets and axles.

The CIE 20T van was based on an older GSWR design, CIE tended to scrap anything not built in Inchacore and most DSER, MGWR & West Cork Vans had gone by the 1960s. Some of the older vans were quite Wild West with raised cupolas and drovers compartments. I will post up some sketches when I get a chance

David We seem to have managed to turn Arigna into a major industrial centre with coal & iron traffic flowing over the SLNCR and narrow gauge connections to Sligo port and eastwards to the GNR at Belturbet!

I think there is a serious risk of duplication here, Leslie seems to be looking at commissioning a resin model from a scratchbuilt master similar to his GNR wagons, rather than commissioning a low priced mass produced wagons from China. IFM & MISOR already have or are planning to release similar priced OO Gauge wagons including Cement Bubbles, tank wagons and hoppers.

Along with footballs Mayco made plastic toys as part of the 'Buy Irish" campaign and may have had Government support through the IDA and special freight rates with CIE. There seems to have been a few de-railments of the Ballina Goods, for years I had an Evening Press clipping of a pile up of wagons at either Castlerea or Ballyhaunis as a result of a broken axle, the driver was unaware of the accident until the signal man at Claremorris asked what happened to the rest of your train? The B121s had lower braking power than the Bo Bos with only pair of brake cylinders per bogie, not good for holding a heavy loose coupled train on the long down grade from Donamon to Roscommon. CIE were fairly tight for locos in the 60s & 70s and most GM Bo Bos were repaired following collision damage. With the arrival of the 071s and ending of loose coupled freight and later DART there was basically a surplus of locos in the 80s with many 001 Class stored unservicable at Inchacore Works.

The "spine" wagons actually had a wooden planked floor, were 20' over headstocks and rated for 12T, most seem to have been phased out of revenue traffic and converted to sleeper wagons or Departmental stock, as 20T steel floored flats and skeletals were introduced in the late 60s. The wagons seem to have been used for Guiness traffic to Derry and possibly Donegal as there is footage of a couple of a goods departing Foyle Road with a couple of these wagons behind a Mogul. In the mid-late 1980s these old Guinness containers were conveyed to Adelaide inside CIE Half-Height Containers on standard 20T flats.

I think the bigger question is whether Government should protect the interests of the citizen or powerful vested interests. My experience with Government in Ireland, the UK and NZ drives me to a more and more Libraterian view point, although I work for the durn Government. A lot of todays problems from Syria to the United States are similar to Russia at the turn of the last Century people have got a taste for freedom and Governments are struggling to put the genie back into the bottle. Its interesting to see that the US Federal Government are prepared to override a citizens common law right to defend themselves when it suits vested interests in the arms industry. The interesting thing is that US gun laws are derived from the old English Common Law right for a person to defend themselves.

Or better still

The physical and e-mail address are from New Irish Lines, if the wagons are as good as Alan O'Rourke's review the guy deserves our support.

It looks like we may have a newwagon builder in the Midlands:banana:, rtr open beet wagons & H vans are available from Model Irish Scale Rail, 2 Coneburrow Road, Edenderry. misr@eircom.net The May edition of New Irish Lines includes a favourable review by A J O'Rourke. The models are resin on a modified Dapol chassis, "the bodies are very neat. The rather complex arrangement of the corrugation in the opens is well captutured". "The paint finish excellent' The inside of the beet wagons are said to be flush and MISR (James MacKay) appears to be working on a range of wagons including the CIE 20T brake and other traditional wagons. The review includes a screenshot of a 3D model so the wagons may be resin castings produced from a virtual master, this avoids the stepping present with 3D printed models.

Somehow or other I dont think ol Neil was exactly a GSWR fan probably more Great Northern or NCC....................Sweet Home was Lynard Skynard's response to Neil Youngs "Southern Man" "Watergate does not bother me, does your conscience bother you? Tell me true"..................... despite this the Van Zants & Young remained good friends I have always been tempted to check to hook up a Lionel loco to a sound system, at one time Ol Neil bought the company and spent a lot of time and money developing a sound system, I wonder if there is much feedback