jhb171achill

Dirty grey it seems, yes!

Maybe that's a good back-story for why it ended up being sent to a remote outpost in West Kerry! As an aside, there were other cases of crews not liking certain locos for superstitious, rather than operational reasons. Midland 2.4.0 No. 666 was nicknamed "The Beast" on account of the biblical tale about the "number of the beast" being "666". Thus, some crews saw it as bad luck, as this biblical "beast" is meant to represent the devil.

The late Bob Clements gave me quite a lot of info on this, along with some details of what was black. Most classes had no vlack examples but many did. He gave me a list of perhaps 15 or 20 locomotives which became black, but unfortunately I appear to have mislaid this over the years at some stage. If it ever turns up, I'll post the details here. This was his own list, not from any official source, so it is likely that unless this list turns up, there is no definitive list. What I HAVE found is his reference to later days, and this definitively settles it for the B4 "Bandon Tanks". Clements wrote in the early 1970s that the last three painted were B4 No. 464; J15 No. 193, and (Midland) J18 No. 593. These were repainted GREY. Thus the apparent blck on 464 on that West Cork touir was not black at all; it was the dark grey, doubtless well polished with oily rags. Therefore, no Bandon tank was ever black; one green, rest grey. WestCork, you mentioned the green Bandon tank(s). In the same note, Clements stated that 467 received green in 1947 and kept it, though it became very dirty. He does not mention any other enegine of this class in green. Three old 4.4.0s became green also; one each from classes D14, D12 & D4. I will fish out the RAL for the grey paint later.

I believe so - right to the end of steam in early 1963, I think.

Those photos, including one I haven’t seen before, certainly strengthen the case for it being grey, quite strongly. In terms of accuracy, a clean engine in later days of steam was a rarity. I have even seen pictures of what I know to have been green engines, that are so dirty they could be pink with yellow and white spots underneath, and nobody would be any the wiser. i have several grey locos 1 x SSM J15, 3 x 00 Works J15s, and very nice JM Design Midland 2.4.0. When new, they looked a bit on the light side, but they were definitely not, as the paint on them was accurately colour-matched with the only surviving sample of GSR / CIE grey that I’m aware of. i know that the manufacturers of the above went to painstaking lengths to replicate the original correctly. Once I had them weathered all changed; they look like a dirty black. I think even a satin finish of black really doesn’t look right unless it’s a loco we know was black - and there really weren’t that many of them. So I would go for grey, and weather it. The weathering on steam engines wasn’t just an accumulation of smoke, soot, brake dust and general wear and tear as found on other rolling stock. Engines were cleaned with oily rags which could be quite dirty, and had the effect of appearing to darken the grey paint. If anyone’s interested I have details of the RAL number somewhere, but it’s a very dark grey, not a light wagon-shade; significantly darker than 071s carry now. Occasional exceptions; senior told me of one of his customary wanderings around Inchicore Works in his teens (mid 1930s) when he saw two newly painted engines ready to back into traffic. One was standard dark grey all over, but the other was much lighter, more like a wagon grey, he said. At first he thought it was undercoat but it wasn’t. It was a J15. He said he never saw or heard of any other engine like that - and he saw the lot!

Yes

Same with the famous 1961 West Cork tour with a spotless “Bandon Tank” No. 464. Convential wisdom (and my opinion for a long time) was that it was black. However, I’ve seen two photos of it that day and shortly after, which certainly appear to show it as dark grey. So I’m unsure; I would certainly not take it as definite that it was repainted in black, but it could have been. it must be remembered that cleaning was done with oily rags. Dust and dirt stick to oil, so polishing if a very dark grey could very easily look black, especially in the colour emulsions used in camera films almost seventy years ago.

193 and an ex-MGWR loco were the last two steam locos ever to be painted, as late as 1961 or 2. However, uniquely, they were given black smokeboxes and chimneys; these were grey previously. Most of the few steam locos that saw a paintbrush after about 1954 were painted black. Among these were at least one 400 (normally green by then) and three of the MGWR 2.4.0s as above, possibly 4 or 5. 654 & 655 were two of them. I’m unsure of the others. One Bandon tank (464) was black at the end. Another 1 or 2 were green. The rest remained grey. Ex MGWR “E” no. 560, which ended its days shunting in Tralee looks black in photos, but it seems to be heavily oily-ragged grey, as for many years I had one of its number plates and when squeaky-cleaned it was grey.

It’s 1963 now. Same connection from the 09:05 ex-Kingsbridge, this time with a spluttery “C”; we’ve 231 today, because C207 died in Killarney yesterday, and C211 isn’t back from Inchicore yet…

I absolutely love that old ruined cottage with the collapsing roof. Tell me more about that - perfect for any rural Irish layout, and something I had in mind myself.

Yes - good thinking. I have heard of that happening in other auctions too, though in answer to Jim's question, the normal procedure is that the auctionerr just gives any unsold items back to the owner. Years ago, when my late aunt departed for the great inchicore in the Sky, she had an art collection. I brought them to Ian Whyte in Dublin (Whyte's art auction) and the few that didn't sell came back to me, and remain in my attic since....

Life in 1961….. “Here’s one for ye. A rabbit walks into a bar an’ asks for a pint’o’porter….” ”Wait, is that Maggie’s damn sheep again!” ”Ah, I’ll tell ye that one later. Best get them chased back into the field….” ”I’ll go an’ get Tom Foley to block up that hole again…when’s the light engine coming in?”

472 class No. 472 shunts the stock for the following day’s fair special, Dugort Harbour, 20th July 1961.

The connection from the down 09:05 Kingsbridge to Tralee arrives one summer afternoon in 1964 on time at Dugort Harbour.

I’ve been in those archives several times. Amazing stuff in there.

Excellent job! It’ll look well either way it appeared.

I think a British M7 0.4.4T chassis might well be a good fit.

Wow! Superb project. What chassis will you use? The unlined CBSCR livery was also the same olive green, I believe. Interesting to see that in one of the photos you show there, the engine has a CBSCR crest on the side; but not in the other.

Thank you very much, folks, much appreciated. It was good to see you all. The number of local people still very much interested in the line was very impressive.

Absolutely TOP class!

Same loco spotted shunting at Dugort Harbour in summer 1968 and autumn 1970….

They turned grey on the ferry coming over….! I think the lower one is late GSWR.

19:30

Tonight (Friday 7th November) in connection with the above event, I’ll be doing an illustrated talk on the North Wexford line in the Rua Glen Hotel & Country Club just outside Waterford city (South Kilkenny). All welcome!

There are not two single components in this yoke that are in proportion to each other!