jhb171achill

Possibly a full brake, but very definitely never passenger-carrying six-wheelers. If there was a six wheel van on the Cork line much after 1935 (pre-800!) it was at one end of the train carrying mailbags.

I presume these are container flats of some sort?

Worth a reminder to perhaps our younger colleagues here, used to seeing modern goods trains which comprise a dozen identical vehicles and nothing else. Apart from the fact that a traditional goods train of four-wheeled loose-coupled vehicles could have 34 wagons of 32 different types, it’s worth pointing out that ALL of them had a brake van. Running a train of older wagons either no brake van on the end is as ridiculously inaccurate as Stephenson’s Rocket hauling an ICR, or a Tara Mines train happily running round the layout with no locomotive. Thankfully, we’ve had JM Design and Provincial Wagons to bridge this absolutely ESSENTIAL gap. Apart from the fact that it does us all a common good to support these small manufacturers, we actually need these things for any credibility on any layout. (Mind you, “Rule 1” applies if you prefer a train of British Rail Mk 1s hauled by a Javanese 3’6” gauge B50 class 2.4.0 in NIR silver and blue; a Japanese bullet train hauled by a Listowel monorail engine, a Sligo Leitrim 0.6.4T double-heading a Darjeeling “B” on the Enterprise, or WORSE, a train of CIE “H” vans and Bullieds with no guard’s van….)

Which, if that turns out to be true, will mean it's not ready for the Ryder Cup time, so no chance of the JP Express to Adare!

In Mallorca in 1993 I saw a metre-gauge "G", owned by a private company that hda a contract to relay track on the Palma-Inca line. It was to all intents and purposes an EXCAT copy of a G61X type, bar being (a) P W yellow and (b) metre gauge, and (c) centre coupling. Its build date was 1983, according to its diamond-shaped Deutz plate. A friend from AAFB, the Mallorcan preservation / railway historical society, told me that spares for these were still very readily available (well, in 1993 anyway). Exact same engine, apparently, as G611-7.

Absolutely. Even when the last steam survivors were banished from Inchicore and sent to Broadstone, just about anything could turn up on the Dun Laoghaire Pier mail shuttle. It could be a filthy lethargic Crossley “C”, an elderly 1897-built J15, or a blue 4.4.0 barely fifteen years old.

A packed-solid train on its way to the Invisible People’s Convention”….

Not my place to question marketing strategies of a (thankfully) successful company, but that would seem a good idea. The Irish market is minuscule. Many of what would seem perfectly logical models for IRM to produce are, on analysis, almost certainly hopelessly non-commercially viable. So any extra exposure has to be good. From 1984 to covid, I worked on all but 3 of the annual RPSI May tours. The number of people each year from the 32 counties was almost never more than three quarters if one coach. The rest were almost all English. Not “British”; but specifically English. IRRS London meetings have many ex-pats; but also many folks from Starmerland who just have a superb interest in Irish railways. Its’s reasonable, therefore, to assume a significant interest in (domestic) Britain for Irish railways. So, a spotlight on IRM itself should be a good idea?

Superb, as are the scenic details. I love the oul ruined cottage!

Having used several of your images in books, Ernie, after seeking permission from your good self of course, I must express my great appreciation and full support for your stance. I hope others will respect your rights as copyright owner.

PO wagons tended to be confined to one specific route, so they’re not really flexible. I’m unaware of any on the NCC. I think the Courtaulds ones were UTA-owned, not PO. This rules out Jeeps, Moguls or the two Jintys in terms of hauling anything PO. The BCDR had the Dundrum PO coal wagons. Some of these ended up on the DNGR, but of course by that stage they were no longer owned by the East Downshire company. In terms of era, to such extent we had PO wagons, you’re really looking at the 1900-20 period mostly. They’re not really a “modern” thing. They give colour, of course, to a model goods train. But prototypically, until the 1970s, any sort of goods stock which wasn’t grey was a rarity on all lines.

Yes - the old traditional wooden-bodied open wagons, very few as they were in the first place, were very long gone.

You’re right, many went from silver straight to black’n’tan. Worth pointing out that any that became green would have been in the later, lighter shade, as shown in your illustrations. The dark green was discontinued as far as passenger coaches went, several years earlier.

That is a truly magnificent model, finished perfectly!

When and why?

Didn’t even know a 29 had!!

I would say the left hand and middle coach are spot on - right hand one I’d say the blue is a BIT dark.

Indeed, and other places too (Dundalk, York Road, Aughnacloy, Stranorlar and Queen's Quay). A small number of his models are inaccurate, usually by choice (2 of his locos which never anything but grey are in GSR 800 class green, because he liked it!), it because in wartime he couldn’t get the right paint (his GNR “S” class). But there are one or two surprisingly basic errors like his Lough Swilly tank engine, which bears a shade of green light years too light.

Yes, exactly. We can only guess at what some early liveries were like, but in most cases the best option is a photo like the above, adjusted as best it can be, WITH a wide consensus of verification from those who SAW the thing in real life. To me, that particular adjusted photo is 100% accurate.

Footnote to the above; I have seen a photo of a black’n’tan coach which LOOKS navy blue and tan; and all manner of other “photographic evidence” which - isn’t! The late Cyril Fry took a large number of photos. Most were black and white (his earliest ones are around 1925-30). But for colour, he unfortunately used the cheapest and nastiest film he could get; thus his slides are in many cases useless. One, which would be a beauty if the colours had not decomposed, shows a “brown” B101 in a cutting on the Tullow branch. The grass and gorse on the sides of the cutting are purple…..

I would have to respectfully disagree with Ian. No colour is impossible to reproduce if research is properly conducted. Fred Graham’s blue is 100% spot on. The other is too light, and that’s that. A tiresome narrative was often propagated by some in the past that “sure, the GNR just went to a local paint shop and got whatever blue they had”; the implication being that the blue varied considerably. This narrative seems, as far as I’m aware, to have originated at Whitehead when 171 had its first repaint by the RPSI - which was way, way, way too light; in order to justify same. Such a tale, apart from being utter, abject nonsense, is an insult to those who designed and maintained the very carefully nurtured corporate images of railway companies. Each railway company (bar the smallest) employed people in their works, whose job it was to maintain “recipes” for paints and pigments to ensure uniformity and continuity. The last such at Dundalk was Marcus Bailie-Gage, whom I knew well; he was a very close family friend going back to when my grandfather was with the GSR in Inchicore. Marcus went to the great big paint shop in the sky about twenty years ago, and though an extremely mild-mannered man, would have spat nails at anyone suggesting the GNR just used any oul blue paint! Now, of course, blue is a primary colour and is notoriously hard to keep fresh, and daily coatings of coal dust, oil and oily rags didn’t help. But that’s a different issue; GNR blue was uniform. The same, incidentally, applies to the two shades of CIE green, plus the oddly-titled “eau-de-nil” (“water of nothing”?) which they used for lining. The same narrative, “ah, sure, there were loads of greens” is again 100% completely wrong. There were two. 1. Darker: Buses, lorries, station paintwork, platform wheelbarrows, coaches up to 1945, D class diesels when new, and steam engines which received green. 2. Lighter: Coaches 1955-62, and diesels repainted from silver circa 1957/8-1962. But - especially the darker shade - it was applied to metal and timber surfaces, with varying degrees of exposure to weather, steam, hot oil, coal dust and filthy diesel fumes. Moreover, and perhaps far more importantly, it wasn’t renewed too often, as money was tight. Thus, with GNR blue, CIE green, AND other liveries, there never were “multiple” variations of the livery, but there certainly were multiple variations of fading, weathering, and erosion of primary pigments. On CIE, many older vehicles in green were being photographed in colour for the first time when they hadn’t actually seen a touch-up paintbrush for a decade! I’ll expound on this more when I get a minute. The issues around perception, especially (as mentioned above) amongst ageing male persons, is a wholly different matter.

And there we have it; photos need considerable interpretation. The “G” is of course silver, the Woolwich 2.6.0 very badly work CIE (dark!) locomotive green, same as carriages, and the turf burner started off in standard Inchicore dark locomotive grey, but ended its extremely short life in CIE lighter green as applied to diesels!

I’ve been reading this with great interest, some very valid and interesting points being made. Having a lifelong interest in liveries and how weathering affects them, I’ll post in more detail in a while. I’m up to me eyes for the next three weeks but I’ll keep an eye here in the meantime….

Two old photos have turned up of a goods leaving Dugort Harbour way back in 1927. The loco is ex-CBSCR 472, then recently transferred to west Kerry….. Happy Easter to all….