jhb171achill

They were that colour when brand new, but a bit like a silver A class or silver tin van, or a steam engine in a light or bright colour, they got so filthy, so quickly and so inevitably that the actual livery they were painted in become lost under a layer of gunk. Pretty soon they were repainted in the standard brown colour; this concept also applied to other vehicles like the Castlemungret yokes. In the very few cases of Irish wagons having a livery other than standard CIE, almost inevitably while they LOOK "private owner", they are fully CIE / IE owned. The "bubbles" were branded "Irish Cement" towards the end, but were always owned by CIE - same with the Taras. Actual fully private owned wagons - we're going back decades, and then not many. I'm sure others will add to the list, but on the BCDR the East Downshire Co. had a few coal wagons, and oil companies had a small number of tankers in the 1950s and 60s.

Back to the 1960s, and a typical train of the early years of the 141s. Remove the black'n'tan coach, and it applies also to green or silver "A"'s, or grey 121s. Of the six coaches, five different types are represented, the second being an old GSWR wooden bogie (IRM will release one next week). The silver "livery" is still represented in a few vehicles - the one here uncharacteristically clean. The very end of the train has another old wooden type. Just one black'n'tan; the rest green or silver. This was where the "grey'n'green" era merges into the "black'n'tan" era - 1963/4/5.

Excellent - so he'd have left the port maybe about 15:50 - or in between the 13:50 and 18:50 scheduled departures! Either two hours late or three early - that, in fact, is actually as close as it gets, so you were lucky! JB

You’ve certainly nailed down the realistic weathering and scenery! Superb job.

Another passed Malahide northbound at 13:00 or so!

I sit in my study within sight of them. Sadly, they almost NEVER run to timetable path. In the early months of this year I made a note of what times they passed Malahide, and in a typical week one or two came along when they were supposed to. It seems that they dance to the tune of the mine, and try to slot in between passenger trains once they get to Drogheda. Northbound empties are just as random. This very day a northbound empties passed here (outside Malahide) at 12:00. It isn’t due until 14:36! One day I heard an 071 at 14:36 and went to the window expecting to see a northbound train - instead, a SOUTHBOUND working went past, at exactly the time a northbound should have. Hypothetically, but in reality almost never; Ex-Tara southbound laden: 09:10 12:15. 18:45 Ex-Dublin Port northbound empty: 13:50 18:50 23:05 That last one, the 23:05 north, is supposed to pass Malahide at 00:18, but it has passed here as early as 21:45 or so, and NEVER later than 23:40 in my time watching.

The siding on the left on the plan, and the one at the bottom, were removed before closure. One thing puzzles me about the picture; you can't see the tram shed.....it should be visible, and it outlasted the track lifting....

I'll fish it out for you, but I'm having trouble posting any pictures on this website last few days. Basically, a couple of sidings. no loco road, no turntable. If anyone else has Norman Johnston's excellent little book on the line, maybe you could post the trackplan as I can't.

Historically, Fintona. the perfect tiny branch terminus - overall roof an'all. Passenger platform only fit for a single vehicle, so a double-ended railcar - if used as a basis for a British prototype, one of those German-built four-wheeled railbuses that BR experimented with in the late 50s / early 60s. One loco and half a dozen wagons for the goods bit. Even Fintona was "rationalised" before it closed; jhbSenior approved the removal of one of its sidings in its final year or two!

I am very familiar with the efforts to recreate the Lagan Navigation Canal in the north - I have been involved in much historical research on their behalf. Despite being almost totally semi-state-funded, and getting the exceptionally rare full support of both the Shinners and Snarlene's lot, this Lagan Navigation Trust (look them up) struggles to get funding from anywhere. Were it not for one particularly charismatic "leader", like MANY fledging railway preservation societies, and who is English (see my earlier points!) with a background in English heritage projects, I doubt if it would have achieved anything at all. Their long-term plans depend 100% on public funding. Will they get it? As for private donations / interested millionaires, there is a better chance of clockwork spaceships being developed. As I implied at the beginning, it's a cultural thing, not assisted by the fact that per square mile, we have one twelfth the population of England.

Absolutely SUBLIME stuff.

Quite possibly, yes. I understand that those with an interest in architectural heritage often encounter such ignorant ideas too........

Tis indeed!

Yes, I’ve heard that one too, but there is a related element of truth. While, as per the NZ example, smallness of population or size doesn’t prevent things getting done, the “culture” and market may do. The only full-size preserved line on this island, at Downpatrick, has been successfully operating for thirty years, but in one (normal) year gets less people than the Severn Valley would in a couple of busy gala weekends. Its not so much the lack of population, it’s the lack of interest. You hit the nail on the head about the attitude of many that “someone” ought to do it, but not they - and certainly not if it involved providing meaningful personal donations. That is the cultural difference here, as prevalent among private individuals as it is among councillors and public bodies. Even railway enthusiasts. In my early days as RPSI Commercial Officer in the late 70s and early 80s, to my surprise and disappointment I discovered that selling teddy bears to the public was lucrative, but selling ANYTHING railway-related to enthusiasts was a very different matter! it is still the same. On the May Tour each year, who buys the stuff being sold? Englishmen. Not our lot, north OR south.

Much as I hate to say it, this is true. Rant warning. In my time in the RPSI committee / board (or whatever it's called these days), there was talk of a national transport museum at Mullingar, and also, as a separate issue, developing Whitehead. A decade earlier, it was a potential branch line from Scarva to Banbridge. A decade later, it was various aspects relating to the development of the Downpatrick line. In between, I was involved in a consultancy role (as a then RPSI finance person) in relation to a proposed railway preservation scheme at Belcoo, and another proposal near Tullow. In ALL cases, local authorities, local councillors and any other gombeen men who thought they'd jump on the bandwagon, were full of enthusiasm, and assured local papers that they'd do everything they could to help the projects. Nothing ever happened - and in the case of Carrickfergus and Mullingar they would do anything BUT help. When the RPSI tentatively explored local assistance with several other issues over my 25 years involved directly or indirectly with the Council, same. Other projects have encountered the same; Kerry being an especially disastrous zone as mentioned above. In the north, if it's got anything to do with the Battle of the Somme, no problems with money. Anything else, forget it. In the south, if it's got anything to do with an American President whose great great great great great great great great somebody once knew someone who had been to Ireland, or the GAA - no problem. Anything else, forget it. In 32 counties, industrial heritage can go take a running jump. No money. Much as I hate to say it, we are billions of light years behind Britain - or most specifically England - in this. And I DO hate to say it, as we have so MUCH here worthy of a small amount of local government help. But our local councillors seem, for the most part, to be a shower of navel-gazing parasites, like the characters out of the (underrated!) British comedy "The League of Gentlemen", all with their noses in a "local trough for local people". Any concept of forward planning for the good of the area and the preservation of culture and heritage..... forget it. If it doesn't put money in their grubby paws, or suit petty party interests, they're not only not interested - they will oppose it, and very often without even listening to the arguments as to why it is of value. There was some councillor in Tralee who set up a website which stated that he would get the derelict Blennerville Railway going. I think his name was Barrett. Yes, I'll name him. What he DID was to shut down any debate, and shut the whole thing down. Completely, depressingly, gombeenly typical. Rant over. For the moment.

Going to have a go now........ didnt work

The whole issue of weathering is actually deserving of serious attention in articles maybe by our more skilled “weatherers” here. That produced by brake dust, coal dust, chalk, shale, gypsum, ballast dust, sand, or other mineral dust, cattle wagon poo, limewash on trucks, diesel fumes, sun or wind or salt air bleaching, underlying rust, heat scorching and the like, are all as different as chalk and cheese, or politicians and common sense. Many of these are of particular interest to modellers, especially in cases where prototypes - like above - were almost never, ever seen clean.

I started posting a few “A” and “B101” class pics on this website the other day. Now I can’t: it says “Error 200” when I try. Yet I’ve posted pics on other websites like this (RMWeb) and also FB pages. No problems. Anyone know what the glitch is - and in English rather than computer-speak? (On sight of the words “server” or “IP address”, my brain automatically ceases entirely to function; re-booting is impossible.)

Not a ONE! That’s for “somebody” to do. In a far-off time when I was restoring carriages at Whitehead as my leisure and holiday time, the odd armchair visitor would turn up and look at one of the wrecks in the sidings. ”Shame to see the state of that”, they’d say, “it’s disgraceful that they’re not securing it or re-roofing it at least”. You feel like saying to them, “Give me your wallet and bank details, I’m about to bill you the price of your house. That should cover the materials. Then get your sleeves rolled up, cancel your holidays, and be here every single Saturday, Sunday and bank holiday for the next few years”.....

I'm sure if there was ever a suggestion that 5T were to leave Tralee there'd be a host of objections from people who cared about it all of a sudden. Exactly!

Phew!! Yes, it’s on the site of the GNR goods and loco yards - a wide site rather than a single long track, so loads of room for twists and turns...

Yes, and the cab front and back, and tank ends and tops could also look solid black! In the early days of the RPSI, despite being only a few years since blue engines were all over the place (ex-GNR area), there was even a debate over what parts of the frame were, or were not black. Today, people forget how dirty an environment railways were in steam days. I can even remember layers of dirt on all surfaces in UTA stations in the sixties. Sheer dirt is another reason why many thought that all CIE engines were black. And it’s not just the grey locos - I’ve seen pics of green ones which, if you didn’t KNOW were green, you’d swear were black all over. Look at pics of CIE steam engines in their last years. See any red buffer beams? Very often, absolutely not a trace of red - but they were red! So, steam-era people - get absolutely STUCK into those weathering powders!

Domes and boilers on CDR locos were actually always painted red, rather than black - but often so filthy they LOOKED almost as dark as black (same with some GNR blue, and GSR / CIE grey locos...)

Am I seeing, in that pic, the loco frame cut open lengthways???? Buffer beam half cut across??? What ON EARTH have they done to it!

You must know the IRM guys...........!