jhb171achill

We could move it to Europe or the USA, to any town where factory workers will work for €5000 a year. Trump and his ilk prattle on about how China has “stolen” their industry, when the reality is that (a) big business in the USA and elsewhere have proactively outsourced their industry to lower-wage countries and (b) as a result, American and first-world customers have voted with their wallets. Dump China, and be prepared to pay multiples of the price for all consumer goods, as proper western wages have to be paid to the workers. We can’t have it both ways…..

I think that in terms of return on investment - if we view that in traditioanl purely fiscal terms - not one red cent spent on any railway in Ireland ever will produce a "return", as such, so that one's long gone. However, the way to look at it is the social and practical benefit it brings, rather than return on investment. There is absolutely no doubt that if the money could be found, the existence of a much higher speed service would be an absolutely immense benefit. Four-tracking Drogheda to Dublin, a la Cork line, would in theory be the best answer, but Connolly congestion would become impossible. Plus, there isn't the room to four-track that line without (in some places) removing housing in a city with an existing chronic housing shortage. Add to that the difficulties associated with, perhaps, an entire closure of the northern suburban service for many many months, perhaps several years. Yes, hypothetically possible, but given the above, it just ain't gonna happen. The ONLY way is underground. Keep the darts where they are and send the Enterprise, and outer-suburban semi-fasts, UNDER the ground.They built the Port Tunnel WITHIN the allotted tomescale, and as far as I know within budget (Children's Hospital take note). If they had the underground serving the airport and Swords areas too, four-track THAT, and have a new and badly needed commuter route, with the Enterprise scooting through on central tracks. It really is that simple. If Vienna, a city of similar size to Dublin, can do all this - which it can and does - then so can we.

I'd be inclined to agree re accident repair. As you say, and as can be seen in zillions of photos, none of them had these waistline beadings when new.

Not remotely a stupid question - a very valid one. Everything was grey until 1970, and after that the brown livery appeared. However, flat wagons of this type were on their way out by then, so not all that many got the brown livery - a good lot of them, possibly an actual majority, saw out their days in grey. So a 1970-1977 layout can legitimately have both grey and brown.

Yes. I think these were for North Wall traffic. I think I’ve some info at home - will delve later. Not identical, but very similar. As Mol shows in pics quite a few detail differences. Apart from the panelling, see the footboards.

Yes, all grey pre-1970; brown the last few years, but even when the very last loose-coupled goods ran in the late 1970s, possibly 10-15% of the wagons were still grey. The standard CIE guards’ vans were either 20T or 30T.

Excellent list. Pity there’s nothing Midland on it, though!

A “might-have-been” factory beside the railway….. think Courtaulds (Carrickfergus), Allmans Distillery (Bandon) and of course CSET at several locations. For a built-up area, we had Shell at Alexandra Road, Dublin, with their diminutive Planet loco. In my teens I had considered a shunting layout based on Westport Quay as if it had been a private railway, to make use of an old Hornby shunter of some sort that I had. (Like many a grand scheme, it never saw the light of day!)

Indeed. I got a "Q" Kits "C" class. It was warped when I got it, and it warped more before I got it properly made up. The only advice I was given was "put it in warm water and straighten it"! No more Q Kits for me!

In 1900 you’d have got FB just about everywhere…. especially in sidings / yards. If the sidings were old, sleepers would be half-round. But whether they were, or rectangular, rails would must likely be spiked directly to them, without soleplates even.

Mr. Grandson is three, and since he was not far beyond two, knows the difference between a dart, an ICR and a 29. Being of this family, his indoctrination must naturally proceed with diligence…….! I am unsure if Tony Hunter, trading as the “Weee Duck” (yes, three “eee”s), is on IRM, but a shout-out to his superb efforts here. “The Weee Duck” is Tony’s own business which makes Lego kits of all sorts of Northern Ireland specific vehicles - plus these shown. I believe he’s working on an NIR CAF. He does northern fire and ambulance vehicles, and armoured RUC vehicles. Great fun overall; check out weeeduck.co.uk for more. Making up an ICR and a Dart took me most of this evening; I’ll be pleased to see what a (hopefully) fledgling three-year-old railway enthusiast will make of it. It'll distract him, possibly, from wanting to fiddle with delicate stuff at Dugort Harbour, up in the attic!

You'd think we could grow our own wood chip!!

So, bottom line, still nothing concrete!

Indeed. There is much photographic evidence of older vans, still with timber framing, having some sort of sheet metal panels applied over the original planking.

I should mention, having been prompted by a learned colleague, that the title of this post initially referred to the Irish Railway News, which ran from 1955 onwards. The last lengthy post I put up a few days ago contains information taken from old IRRS Journals plus some other material of my own; the Journals precede the IRN by some years, going back to 1947. For those who are not members, the Jiurnal was, and remains, an invaluable source of information in relation to the day-to-day developments on Irish railways going back now for almost eighty years. But the journals, published several times a year, also contain many articles of huge historical interest, and often these were written by some of our earlier expert enthusiasts who saw this stuff day to day - people like Harold Fayle and Bob Clements who witnessed and recorded in detail things that were going on almost from the start of the 20th century. Think of this - if the IRRS had a meeting in, say, 1948, and had a talk from a 70-year-old member, that man will have been born in 1878 and will have vivid memories of the railway from late teens / early twenties - from maybe 1895 on. His recollections and personal experiences will be reflected in his talk. Some of us older members on here will be aware of things in, say, the 1960s, that would seem inconceivable to many modern enthusiasts, but we saw and experienced them. It is absolutely VITAL that all this is accurately recorded. So, JOIN the IRRS; and no, I'm not on commission! The Society needs more and more new members, especially volunteers in the Dublin area, as the running and administration of the library and archive is increasingly falling on the shoulders of an ever-dwindling group of very much older volunteers. Just to help you: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeaL4TagsmFalRJsel-JtQONLWp-tqAz4fW-dMTGSzvE7sXhg/viewform?pli=1

Interested to see the "RA" suffix on Macroom stock. "R" was the standard GSR suffix for ex-Macroom stock, like "M" for ex-MGWR, or "D" for ex-DSER etc etc etc. "A" was used for departmental stock. But these things were traffic vehicles, not departmental, and were not renumbered in the "A" series anyway. The "RA" seems to be applied to ex-Macroom stock only. Ex GSWR stock retains its ordinary number, and ex-MGWR vehicles have "M". So what was this "RA" all about? Apart from that, it's the only example I am familiar with of GSR / CIE using a suffix of more than one letter. As a separate issue, for information, the GSR and CIE used these suffixes: A Departmental stock - and in a new series of numbers, not original ones with suffix, as all the following. B Cork, Bandon & South Coast Rly C West Clare Rly D Dublin & South Eastern Rly J Timoleague & Courtmacsherry Rly L Cavan & Leitrim Rly M Midland Great Western Rly N Great Northern Rly (AEC / BUT Railcars only had a "C" in front as well; thus a GNR railcar that was, say, 607, became C607N) P Cork, Blackrock & Passage Rly R Cork & Macroom Direct Rly S Schull & Skibbereen Rly T Tralee & Dingle Rly W Waterford & Tramore Rly Quiz question: what or when was the last vehicle in traffic bearing a suffix of this sort, apart from the "A" series? I saw a bogie wagon with "M" in the North Wall Yard about 1980. Dunno of anything since. There were also still a few GNR cement vans about at that time, though out of use, with "N" after the number. Anyone?

MOST interesting! Seems it was substantially rebuilt, too - wonder when it was scrapped, or where it was used in Britain?

I am unaware of any evidence of a green TPO, likewise. I would never rule it out,unless concrete evidence appeared to confirm that literally none were, but I've never seen any evidence of it. Straight from silver-dirt to black'n'tan seemed to be the norm for such things - plus, of course, some laminates and vans.

It was the paint. It didn’t stick properly to aluminium and faded badly. I remember seeing it often.

Banned from double track lines.

You’re inspiring me to get to work on more scenery…..!

You mean the older “heritage” stock? Hypothetically, it’s possible to run them on main lines but it absolutely won’t happen for a number of reasons. They are VERY long out of use. Very major and eye-watering expensive upgrades and modifications would be necessary first. Second, with double-blocking and single line only working, they’d be banned from some routes, and on others modern levels of services (even on Sundays) would make timetabling paths impossible. The only way to travel in Ireland on heritage mainline stock is, and will remain, Downpatrick. We are extremely lucky to have this line, especially after the negative attentions of Mother Nature, who diverted Noah’s flood there, and the local brain-dead vandals on several occasions.

Just occurred to me, re-reading this, amongst Cyril Fry’s colour photos there’s a shot taken at Inchicore of an AEC power car in newly-applied black’n’tan, possibly taken IN the paint shop. Cant recall the exact date (in 1962) but it struck me that this was absolutely at the start of that livery. With many main line services in the hands of these - they were the ICRs of their day - it’s quite likely they wanted as many of these, as soon as possible, in the new livery. Every day’s a school day; I was completely unaware of this - never heard of it. Interesting!

Far far simpler in the past when it was just national postal carriers, before such things were privatised. Way cheaper too.

Quite a few "tin vans" went through a green phase (you'd be surprised!) but obviously only in the later, lighter green (anyomne ordering a green one from Silverfox, take note - their green is wrong!). Many "tin vans" of all styles, though, went straight from a supposed "silver" livery (in reality, and overall patina of brake dust and coal dust!) to orange, black & white (how most of us remember them!)