jhb171achill

David Your research (and imagination!) inspires, and I know I'm not the only one following this project with great interest. You invited comment; here goes with my penny's worth.... To do 1904 and 1950 will obviously require two sets of rolling stock, but in such a scenario the station would almost certainly not have changed one bit from opening to closing! The only thing is to decide who built it. If it was the MGWR, station building woodwork would be painted bright red and (I believe) a light sandy beige colour (or cream)?). The station sign would be wooden, with white letters on a black background. If WLWR, green paintwork as far as I know, though I could be wrong on that, and station signs were enamel, in navy blue with white letters. It's hardly likely the SLNCR would have built it. But buildings and track - same in any era. For the 1950 era, you're probably looking at a J15 or two from Claremorris, something SLNCR as you say above, from Collooney, and probably a G2 (650 class) 2.4.0 from Ballina. The only difference between then and 1904, is that earlier you've something like the "Wolf Dog" and maybe another small 2.4.0 of some sort - or even a J26 tank engine (I think you have one of those?). Plus, or course, in 1904 you have brighter liveries instead of plain black on the SLNCR and plain grey on everything else. In 1904, SLNCR are using dark green (darker than your model, though), and you still have the odd loco in WLWR lined maroon, plus lined black GSWR. Traffic wise, nothing much would change over 1904-50. I would suspect that a SLNCR train would indeed be a couple of six-wheelers. There would usually be something like a 1st / 2nd compo, a third and a brake third. However, exactly the same type of formation would be in the MGWR and GSWR / WLWR trains. What few bogie coaches were about then wouldn't have ever ventured to a place like that (until maybe about 1910). The SLNCR's trio of bogies hadn't been even dreamed of, and the WLWR only had half a dozen in total, which would be on Limerick - Waterford trains mostly, possibly north Kerry the odd time. Mails were carried in the guard's van. You didn't really get dedicated mail vans on lines like that - however, artisitic licence might allow a mail train on account of some new port. This, again, might allow a "boat train" once a day - probably from the W & L direction. Goods traffic would primarily be vans for the same reason, and then there's the inevitable monthly cattle fair, with good healthy beasts being walked up from Binghamstown and other places on the Belmullet peninsula. As an aside: You had mentioned Alphagraphix kits (as have others lately.....). Interesting stuff! I recently obtained an Alphagraphix catalogue, as a result of a conversation with another member on here who has just done some of their kits. I have to say that they are unusual in a number of respects. On the positive side, they are inexpensive and probably a good way for those on a budget to enter the more historical Irish scene. With a combination of metal and card, this is an innovative idea (I know, since the 1980s!) and great for certain circumstances. Also, since in the Irish modelling scene beggars can't be choosers, they have an unrivalled range of stuff, 00 and 0 gauge, broad and narrow gauge. They produce models of things which wouldn't come remotely close to being economically viable if attempted by the many manufacturers we see discussed and advertised here regularly. They must be greatly congratulated on all of the above. That's all positive. But those who know me will see as absolutely predictable what's coming next. If the pictures in the catalogue are anything to go by, many of these are unneccesarily (and some might say inexcusably) in liveries which far from being a bit "wrong", are entirely fictitious in every single detail. MGWR six-wheelers are shown in bright unlined green. Not one company in the country ever painted a single carriage in bright unlined green. MGWR stock was brown. Some CIE carriages are presented in a quite acceptable lined green for card kits, but others are shown in plain green with gold shaded numbers on them. Again, nothing close to anything real. GSR, GSWR and NCC stock is shown in bright red, a la County Donegal. The GSR and NCC used maroon - LMS maroon in fact. Over in the Republic of Brexit you'd never get a carriage in bright red. GSWR stock wasn't ever red - it was a very dark maroon, so dark that it looked almost dark brown. Like Guinness; now there's a thought. SLNCR stock is in crazy colours. The "Bandon Tank" is in an unlined green, unlike anything real, as is "Argadeen". Modern plain yellow numbers are shown on the Bandon Tank. I could go on and on and on, to the extent of driving most readers to their best smelling salts. But I add this for one reason and one reason only, as I always do - for the sake of clarifying historical accuracy for those interested. I'll add one more - the eternal Irish disease seen in models and in RPSI, DCDR and UFTM preservation - an obsession with black chassis, black drawgear and black ironwork on just about anything that isn't a passenger vehicle (which DID have black chassis!). Even the excellent models of Mr Chown show this on his GSWR brake van. Rant entirely over. While I repeatedly refer to livery details, let me assure all that is meant for clarification purposes - because there ARE those who like me take the view that colour is the first thing you see on anything. For others, it's less important, or maybe doesn't even matter. A Murphy 071 in Isle of Man bright green - yes, I'd accept it wouldn't look bad - or a yellow track machine painted black all over. But few modern modellers, who see modern stuff day-to-day, would be impressed, I suspect, with a beautiful train of IRM bubbles or exhibition-standard HOBS painted in blue and red all over, with an inaccurate-designed NIR symbol on some and a BR double-arrow on others. Yet, that's what we seem to see regularly on both models and the real thing. Whitehead's "Ivan" brake van with its black zebra stripes makes me dizzy to look at. Contradictory as it might sound, I will close with what still MUST be Rule No. 1 for every single modeller, "It's YOUR railway and you can do what YOU want!". And that's the first rule that I respect too, totally. I've finished my tea, and my smelling salts; good night to all!

What scale are the IOM locos, colin?

Sounds like a perfect plan!!

I'm still awaiting the next train to Achill.....

All PW stuff was normal wagon grey until the very early 1970s, when by degrees it became normal wagon brown! Yellow started appearing, first of all on track machines in the 1970s, but moving on to “proper” railway vehicles like ballast wagons, weedspray vehicles, and plough vans during the 1980s / early 90s. The two converted “tin van” TPOs, one of which has recently gone to Downpatrick, were actually painted in something like carriage orange/tan, all over, but faded to look more yellowy.

Woodwork on or around doors and window frames was mid-green. Badly faded and work-worn in your era.

Yellow stuff isn’t my thing at all, but I have to say I remain absolutely gobsmacked at the exceptional quality of everything that emanates from Chateau IRM. An excellent and timely addition to the modern scene!

Truly inspiring work to your usual high standard.

Saw that, derailed. I would have been interested but the budget this year has to be kept for "A" class diesels from IRM!

Love it!!

More than happy to...... like TTC, I have an involvement too. For a while there won't be a huge amount to report, other than minutae, but as and when anything significant occurs, TTC and myself can post details.

Yes, Ulsterbus Bill, that was a period with much to see; doesn't it always seem as if the generation before us had it all? (In my case, steam, which I only remember in its last dying decade). I must dig out some photos i have, but from memory, what was about York Road in the early 1990s (both IN traffic and in "storage") was as follows: The three DH shunters. One in maroon with light grey stripes, two in light grey with maroon stripes (or maybe two and one!). In their short life they had three liveries. The ex-CIE "C" class locos, which NIR called "MV" (for "Metrovick" - even though they then had GM engines) or "104" class. One remained in faded CIE livery, as it had only been acquired for spares. The rest were in NIR plain blue with a "day-glo" orange upside-down chevron on the front (not yellow). 80 class railcars - most in the new light grey with blue upper part, and white-black-white-yellow stripe at waist level. A couple still in all-light-grey with broad maroon stripe below window, the livery in which three sets had been lent to Irish Rail. Others retained the short-lived and quite hideous "Suburban" red and cream (not light grey), with orange stripe. The 071 class ("GM" or "111" class to NIR) trio used on the "Enterprise" in their earlier lighter blue, with day-glo orange rectangles on the ends. The YELLOW end patches appeared once they were repainted the darker blue they carry now. The "Hunslets". No. 103 was scrapped, and 101 was derelict, but 102 soldiered on, and in between long spells out of traffic, she shunted Adelaide goods yard. The Hunslets were a bad design, underpowered for the work they were acquired for. Thus, they were overworked in their early years, leading to unreliability before long, and as a result they had a short life. More often than not, shunting at Adelaide was carried out by IE locos. I think it was 154 or 155 that was virtually based there for several years on loan. (This led to rumours that NIR would buy a couple of 141s from IE, as shunter / PW locos, and send 112 south in exchange; this loco spent about six years on loan to IE and appeared on everything from beet to the Ballina branch train....but that's another tale.) The MED and MPD classes were by then out of use, and the 70s scrapped. Go a few years earlier, to lets say the mid 1980s, and the modeller can add to the above eclectic list the last two MPD cars in use, one still in maroon and grey and the other in blue and maroon; some 70s, still with ex-NCC or GNR coaches as centre cars, and the last few MED sets, none of which were ever repainted blue and maroon. NIR and the UTA are often ignored by modellers. Scenically, much of the small network isn't on a par with places further south or west, but a layout based around Castlerock - Downhill tunnel would be spectacular! The "Troubles" led to some stations looking little better than derelict, with temporary buildings after bombs, sectarian graffiti and a general air of depressing dereliction - but that in itself, as a background, is as historically interesting as it is unique in modelling terms. And gems still existed - Lisburn station is a W H Mills delight to this day, with a background of beautiful mature trees. Derry's Waterside station was a spectacular setting for a layout until it was blown up. Go back to the 1960s, and what about the Derry Road for a layout? Sheer gem that would be. In the twilight years of Grosvenor Road good yard in Belfast, much scope is there for the modeller - the elusive BCDR diesel No. 28, which shunted dilapidated UTA goods wagons and CIE "H" vans about through the weeds until 1965, and CIE's Dundalk goods trains until its demise in 1972. The tail end of steam; a tatty "Jeep" on a ballast train sits, in summer 1970, alongside a pristine "whistler" "Hunslet" and its brand new BR-style Mk 2s, while an eclectic mix of MEDs, AECs, and BUTs await their next jaunt to Portadown. Ditch the "Jeep" and call it 1974, and you can add a few 70 and 80 class cars too. (70s, incidentally, while they appeared on the "Enterprise" in the late '60s, seem to have all migrated to the NCC by the early 70s - only to reappear on locals, especially when the Derry trains were re-routed via the Antrim branch in 1976). I look forward to seeing Ballyshane develop. If money and time was unlimited, and we all lived in buildings the size of Leinster House, you could model the lot. Like you, I settle for something that can be a "microcosm" layout, as the Planning Dept. of the Ministry of Domestic matters needs to be negotiated with regarding an extension. You think Brexit is complicated; securing such permission is an ongoing work..... Enough ramblings of an oul wan. My coffee is getting cold and I've stuff to do.

Commenting on the bits you mentioned above: 1. The NCC had much concrete structural work - in fact they were one of the first companies in Ireland to use it on a widespread basis. 2. Derry-style freight operation - much scope there for the modeller! If you're dealing with the period where NIR's second-hand "C" class locos were in operation (1980s), you're into cement bubbles and fertiliser; doubtless you'll have some of IRM's "bubbles" ready! And RTR fertiliser wagons are something for the future, we hope. 3. 70 and 80 class sets, also MEDs, almost always ran in 3-car sets, especially the 70s. However, 2-car sets were to be seen occasionally (especially in the case of 80s). In the 1980s there were still two steam-era coaches used as railcar intermediates with 70s. One was ex-NCC No. 526, which remained in maroon and light grey until its demise in 1981 or 1982, the last steam-era coach still in use in Ireland. It dated from 1926, and retained its internal mahogany seat frames and high seat backs to the end. Then there was 727, and ex-GNR K15 and the last GN passenger coach in traffic. It ended in the maroon and blue livery but internally still had its grey and red GNR upholstery in part. The UTA and NIR receive less attention than the bigger and more varied CIE. But there is very much of interest in your scenario. If you expand your "timeline", than up to 1970 you can include a filthy "Jeep" on a ballast train, and maroon Hunslet on the goods. You could even have a visiting AEC or BUT set, even though these very rarely left ex-GNR metals. A Sunday School steam excursion could bring in an eclectic mix of old ex-GN and ex-NCC steam carriages, hauled by the same Jeep. Goods can be in the hands of a pair of MPD railcars - which they were more often than with locos after 1965. "Poetic licence" might allow a CIE 141 in (if you can get one!) with a goods. In the period you're going for, cement, Guinness and fertiliser were the traffic on the NCC from Lisburn to Derry. Only mail and parcels went to Larne. With Derry services going via Lisburn to Central, the Larne line was "cut off". The "Red Star" containers were carried on long-wheelbase four wheeled flats converted mostly from "brown van" chassis, but weren't lifted on and off them - wagon plus container functioned as a goods van. The "spoil" wagons are a great idea. In those times the ex-CIE locos were the staple motive power. "Hunslet" 102, the only remaining one, spent its interludes in service shunting Adelaide goods yard and rarely if ever went anywhere near Larne, or indeed anywhere else up the NCC. Most of the time, though, it was out of use - the Hunslets were a poor design to start with, and unsuited to the work they were ordered for. Thus, too-heavy initial use made them unreliable. You might eventually have a few battered oul four wheel wagons and one of Leslie McAllister's ex-GNR guards vans for a ballast train, hauled by a "DH" 0.6.0 diesel shunter (English Electric, 1969). If it's two-car passenger trains you want, the last two MPD cars were sometimes run on locals as a pair, though to be accurate usually only as far as Carrickfergus. While one had gained the then modern blue and maroon livery, the other remained maroon and light grey to the end. I always like seeing northern-based layouts, as there is much there that has yet to be modelled by more than a handful of good folk. Looking forward to seeing this one develop. Good luck with it.

Pity the yoke beyond it didn;'t survive. If I remember, it was one of the last WLWR coaches to survive. Belturbet's 900 is the only one now, after their (derelict) Director's Saloon (934) was burned by scumbags at Mullingar about thirty years ago.

Correct! I like to think it all went pear-shaped after the Post Office cancelled the mail contract with the MGWR for the Achill line..... Letter posted to Mr. Alphagraphix now; by DSER / LNWR he should have it in half an hour! With An Post and Royal Mail, he might get it by July. I didn't say which July....... Anyway, I've laboured that point ad infinitum. I look forward to seeing what his wares are. If the catalogue lends itself in any way to reproduction of the Irish stuff, I'll post a list here of what he offers.

I’m sending off for an Alpha etc catalogue tonight! I will write a letter, stick a stamp on it and put it in a local Edwardian letterbox tomorrow. My letter will go to Kingstown Pier, and onto the steamship for Holyhead, from where a big LNWR locomotive will bring it to the capital of the Empire. A postman with a big hessian sack will then deliver it to Alpha. I hope they are well stocked up with tallow candles to read mail on these dark evenings......

It would!!

Thee will be several "silver" (in reality, all-over dirt!) tin vans......

And there was me thinking I had it right!

Exactly, Galteemore. (Though Argadeen would have been dark grey!) Equally, it could have survived until 1967, allowing a 141!

These beauties arrived this morning - soon to grace the tracks of Dugort Harbour.... I even loaded the images the right way up, at first attempt. There’s s first time for everything. Since the layout is 1957-64 period, green and black’n’tan will rub shoulders, as steam will with diesel.

Yes, indeed, and despite my frequent murmurings here about the authenticity of lack of it, of a model, I stand very firmly with the idea that “it’s your layout”. In early 20s I had a fledgling 009 layout based on the West Clare. It never got finished (do they ever?), but I had bought a whitemetal kit of a Donegal railcar, which would be finished in black’n’tan, had I ever built it. The idea was that the line had lasted into the 1970s, so that a (black’n’tan!) F class could haul a container train! In authenticity terms it would have scored a big fat zero. However, I do feel that it is vitally important to have correct info “out there” and widely known, because a great many modellers do seek authenticity. Drew’s models were great, and his layout a joy to behold. Like the famous Donegal layout of the late Sam Carse, the emphasis was on correct railway operation, though devoid of scenery. Drew was a very dogmatic type of character, and as you say he knew better than CIE when it came to liveries! While not authentically painted, I have to agree with him that ALL locos looked better in lined green, than plain grey! As far as Alphagraphix is concerned, they seem to have CIE locos in black, when almost all were dark grey, GSWR locos in unlined black (they should be lined in red and white), and that green Midland engine should also be lined out in black and white. I must get his catalogue for the craic. And I still wonder what a West Clare railcar and an F class diesel would have looked like in black’n’tan!

For info on the Castlecomer branch, and photos, the best resource is Barry Carse’s excellent article in a recent IRRS journal. Wayside - very many thanks for your kind offer to bid for the D & B stuff. I did, however, submit to the auctioneer a bid much lower than that asked. If they don’t get what they’re asking they’ll get back to me. I think that if you visit the auctioneer you can view lots in advance.

NO website? Wow - does he have electricity or running water, I wonder! Drooling is indeed appropriate, but the idea of putting stamps in the post to someone was outdated forty years ago, and I premise he'd want British stamps. This makes it awkward for anyone in the south to even see what he has, let alone order it. I'll keep it on the long finger..... And with no website, where do we get his postal address? I love the GNR station! His take on loco liveries, by the look of what's displayed, is unfortunately very wide of the mark in many cases. I like his clerestory GSWR 6-wheeler too, though its livery is somewhat inaccurate. There were only a few GSWR six-wheelers with clerestorey roofs, but at least one, I believe, made it into CIE days. Maybe he might attend some of the exhibitions here....

Alphagraphix don't seem to have any website....if they do, it must be on the "dark web" because I can't find It anywhere! Any thoughts / ideas, anyone?