jhb171achill

Unfortunately, to these people it's just a "toy train". As Eoin says, they don't know what they have.

Many many years ago, Model Irish Railways of Portadown sold little tins of authentic-shade CIE tan. Anyone know what happened them, or if an appropriate CIE shade can be bought now?

Well done, Popeye, that shows up well the vagaries of different films. I am currently examining a photographic collection which, if restorable, will go in a future book. But the slides have deteriorated so badly that a green "A" class is a bluey grey, while a carriage behind it, which would be in the older darker green, looks a dark purpley brown.... This slide, despite great historic interest, is sadly way beyond any restoration. Memory of witnesses can be equally unreliable, but someone with a keen artistic eye will be the best judge of all.

NIR had that driving trailer thing (now at Downpatrick) which never saw one single day's use. At least it didn't cost zillions.....

Are they around that long? Suppose so..... Well, an A class or a 141 can quite happily rattle along for fifty years, so I know which I'm voting for......! Steam engines, even just adequately looked after, will give more than a century of good work.....

Obscene waste of money.

Sunday 11th Feb? I'll be there.....looking for bargains!

That would do, then, for models of GNR / UTA / NIR and CIE railcars of AEC origin... from that clip and from memory, it sounds sufficiently like the real thing, though all the horn-based squawks and squeaks don't sound realistic. The AECs had a quite distinctive two tone warning device. Sometimes the higher note was first, sometimes second. As a child it took me a while to work out why, until I saw how the driver operated it. There was a control lever which made one sound if pushed towards the driver, and the other if pushed away. If you sat in the first class section at the front of the railcar, you could see through into the cab and watch what the driver was doing.....

I had reason to look up Norman Johnston's excellent little book on the Fintona branch last night. It's a good while since I looked through it, and when I did, it was details of the station I was looking for, not the tram. So I had forgotten one illustration in it, of an excellent model of the Fintona tram, or "The Van", as the locals called it. The model is credited by the author to a certain - Tony McGartland! An excellent and very original piece. Now, how to fit a horse with DCC!

It brings back vivid memories to me of the whole UTA scene at that time. The railways had been badly run down. Stations were often dark and shoddy, and locos and goods stock worn looking and very scruffy. The interior of a solid, comfortable AEC railcar was the only respite. I never travelled on the Derry Road, to my great regret, as I was old enough to do so, but I remember the desolation in Portadown once the lifting trains had finished, and the air of utilitarian desolation in the old, by now largely redundant station, and that ghastly concrete replacement opened in 1970 (I think I got off a train there in its first week; I certainly remember using the old station not long earlier). I very much hope so.

Temperance? Temperance? No, I don't go for these new craft beers. Gimme a pint of stout any day. I like the cracked road surface. How did you make that?

I presume the RPSI has Fred's collection now?

Exactly. And if stone throwing scum WERE apprehended over there, one gets the impression that both police and judges would be a lot harder on them than here, where we hear how hard a life the poor vandal has had blah blah, to nauseating ad infinitum; an insult to those from less fortunate backgrounds who have tried to make a life for themselves.....

I suppose it depends, Roxy, on what end result you want. Austrian, German or some other mainland European theme, or Welsh narrow gauge (with or without slate mines) is easy - there's loads of RTR stuff. If you want to go Irish, unless you want to scratchbuild everything to a scale of 3mm to the foot, you're better off with 00n3 (12mm gauge) track. It's a bit bigger, but not much, so almost as versatile in confined spaces. As I said, 4mm Irish on 009 track looks plain ridiculous. Recent debates on this forum have examined the HO / OO / 21mm gauges for Irish models, and there's a clear advantage in 21mm from an appearance perspective, but practicalities and most people's skills, time and budgets heavily favour 00, even though it's not technically accurate. Using 009 to represent anything Irish (or Manx) in 4mm scale is way, way worse! It's like putting the Flying Scotsman on scale 3ft gauge track, proportionately. There are many Irish kits available - a very good selection in fact. They are all 4mm, thus making 00n3 track as good as obligatory. And now you can get Peco Streamline in 00n3, which you couldn't when I started narrow-gauging, years ago. Had it been available I'd have gone for it, and my dream of a complex Donegal or West Clare system in the attic would have come to pass....

I thought of using 009 track, which of course is scale 2ft gauge-ish, to accommodate British and mainland Europe interests, but building to a scale of 3mm, but eventually compromised. I got several Irish kits but for their scale they looked better on 00n3 track. 4mm SCALE Irish stuff on 009 track just looks totally wrong (hardly surprisingly; it is!) So I switched to German / Austrian narrow gauge, with the advantages of good quality Peco 009 track and high quality RTR stuff from the likes of Roco, Liliput and Bachman. This survived two house moves and just as I was about to set it all up here, along come Messrs Worsley, Provincial, SSM, JM Design and others. Thus, the last of it is being taken in a padded box to the post office in about half an hour, while meantime Messrs ECM Trains and Baseboard Dave are in communication! Here, of course, is the real advantage of 009. With Austrian, I can fit a continuous circuit with a sizeable terminus and junction station. With 00, which I'm returning to after an absence of about forty years, I can have a small fiddle yard to shunting terminus.

I've done a lot of 009 over the years, and sitting downstairs right now is a box of it going to the 009 Society for sale (circulated here some weeks ago and much already sold....). A satisfying gauge to work with.

If I was "they", I'd get someone with a little more knowledge, and someone LOCAL who would know what they are trying to recreate! There are personages on this very forum with at the very least the same skills, so perhaps "they" might take note! I'm sure Cedric Fry or Cyril Frog would agree.

While I had no recollection of silver "hot water bottles", as reminded by Eoin, a pic appears of one in a book. So both types were silver initially, all over. The heating vans tended to get dirtier roofs quicker, due to exhaust. Both types wore green coats, then black'n'tan. The green ones did not carry "snails", just the mid-body light green line. At a guess, I'd say the last ones in green probably lasted until about 1964/5.

Eoin I'll be on to you for a couple at time some stage, then! I think you mentioned them when we spoke a couple of weeks ago, but I had already ordered these two. By the time I'm done, I'll probably want about five, in the three liveries. While I'd need to check, I don't believe that the "hot water bottles" were ever silver (thus delivered in green), but only the "suitcases" were. Both types wore green coats, then black'n'tan. At a guess, I'd say the last ones in green probably lasted until about 1964/5.

Some excellent photos. Michael always had an eye for the rare, little seen, and unusual. You will note the emphasis on passenger trains. To our younger readers this may not be noticeable as the railways for many years now have had few, or zero, goods trains on any line. But in Michael's time this was not the case - few lines DIDN'T have goods trains. So where are they? Well, a wee birdy suggests that he may have a follow up at some stage with some of the freight GEMS he has...... Drooling welcome. ....and, I might add, the possibility (time allowing) is that Rails Through Somewhere Else might see the light of day....it's been discussed, but time is not plentiful......!

Hi Glover I did see a pic of a LV in green somewhere, but it was years ago, so I've no idea where it was. My own recollections of things green would not be clear enough to ascertain which type of van I saw in real life; most of my van recollections, by far, were black'n'tan. Many vans, also a handful of carriages, went straight from unpainted to black'n'tan. Come to think of it, it's the heating van I'm inclined to think wasn't green..... I must check that.

This is a good enough quality photo of an ACTUAL transfer, as used on steam locomotives whether green, black or normal grey; on buses, road vehicles and passenger carriages. The green paint is actual CIE green paint. Having seen the original daily for forty years hung on Senior's wall, I can confirm that this photo reproduces the colours accurately. Note the gold lining. For those modelling steam, it's important to note that the "snail" on tenders was this colour, and gold lined, always - never white, as Lima implied on their early and crude models by today's standards. Nor yellow as incorrectly applied by the RPSI to 184 and 461 in the 1990s. This darker shade of green, while seen on steam locos and buses to the end, was replaced on passenger stock and diesel locomotives by the lighter shade seen on RPSI heritage stock, and at Downpatrick on some stock, from 1955 onwards. The original may be seen in Headhunters Railway Museum in Enniskillen. Many of the other mounted coats of arms there (but not all) are mounted also on boards with original paint - Clogher Valley, CDRJC, NCC, GSR (but not GSWR), and Cork, Blackrock & Passage are original paint. So are DNGR, BCDR, and DSER (loco black). One of the GNR ones is, and one is in "works grey" as it was mount on its board in the 1940s when paint was either expensive or unavailable! Feel free to copy and use as you see fit.

Yes, Tony; and I was beginning to doubt that he existed until these two Mayner vans arrived today. I had not seen JM Design products up close and personal before. Photos suggested they were by good indeed; having seen these two (one "suitcase" and one "hot water bottle" ='luggage van and heating van), I wouldn't call them "good" any more; "excellent" is more appropriate. I await future Mayner stuff with great interest! By the way, I'm after another luggage van if anyone has one to spare - ideally filthy silver or green!

A nice parcel arrived today from Pettigo Fair, Frimley. That'll keep me busy for a while. Then another arrived with an old coach from Mr Ebay....

Yes, I re-read the original post and amended my initial response as just above! I incorrectly thought you meant that the eBay seller was implying the track plans were intended to represent 1970. In reality, lifting wasn't complete, so some locations probably still had some or all of their track.