jhb171achill

Hot off the press, thanks to Robert Gardiner, GM of DCDR: the pre-1955 dark green, post-1955 mid green and the EDN paints are coded as follows: Dark Green is BS381C/227 Lighter Green is RAL6001 Eau de Nil is BS381C/216 The last one I'm not sure about on paper, but on vehicles at Downpatrick it is quite correct.

Mighty stuff indeed, Paddy - superb!

I have to say, folks, if there's a load of new stuff all together on the market, like many here I certainly can't afford to buy it. For a number of reasons I'm VERY financially committed this year. However, since I know from above comments I'm not alone, surely the answer is that the various items concerned will simply sell that bit slower - thus enabling a bit of saving. In my case, I'll prioritise. I'm still trying to pick up the odd thing that was offered for sale a few years ago but is now sold out - but these were snapped up at the time (e.g. Mayner's excellent tin vans). If all these new things appear at once, the rate of buying will hopefully slow to the extent that we'll mostly all get a bite of the pie... Hopefully, anyway....

Exactly..... all of us would need to be looking at the real thing in daylight, and a model, not a computer screen!

And they're potentially blocking the way for emergency services. Idiots like this put people's lives at risk, like that stupid woman who went SWIMMING and had to have a lifeline thrown to her. Natural selection......

Mostly A class by far, occasionally 071 also from time to time. I don't know of any reason why a "pair" or 121 / 141 / 181 types couldn't also haul them, though I can't think of examples of it happening.

I would echo that entirely - we've never had it so good. ALL the manufacturers here have taken a big commercial risk in catering for what is actually a tiny market - but with such quality. hats off - to Murphys, Des, Leslie, and everyone else, and IRM.

Sheer artistry. Older green paints tended to show a yellowy tint when weathered, as the yellow pigment they used lasted better than the blue. The little yellowish tints you have included perfectly illustrate paintwork that is well overdue a repaint = absolutely prototypically for the time. The danger in West Cork and other places seemed to be that once they DID get around to repainting it, closure was imminent!

Damn! Damn! Damn! My plans for an exclusively 1950s / 60s collection is now up in smoke! I'm going to have to have ferts and Guinness traffic......yes, shtick me down for some! This means I'll also need a "Supertrain"-liveried 141......!

I saw that fella on the Enniskerry Road earlier..................... (I got the last pan loaf........cost me €120 but I sold it later on ebay for €1000....)

From the above, clearly one might get the exact EDN shade by one part 14E50 and two parts 216. The RAL 6021 is the closest of all of them, by far, without alteration.

That's pretty good, yes. The dark green - providing the computer screen shows it accurately - is just right. The EDN looks fine too - there appears to be a slight difference between the paint and the transfer, but it's close enough. The close-up pic of the paint pot above, however, for the EDN looks fine to me. Interesting...... firstly, the same EDN for both green periods, as the transfers didn't change for numerals etc. Above, the green paint on the coach, to be honest, isn't quite right for the lighter shade - from viewing on a computer it seems almost as if it has an "olivey green" shade in it. somewhere. The open pots, though - left hand about the right darkness but a bit yellowy. the pot on the right more like it but a bit dark. We're getting there, folks! A valuable exercise, though it's bound to drive some readers mad! :-)

Brilliant, thanks!

I don't recall that, John - it was certainly never formally discussed. It's possible there were informal conversations about it though. Had it happened, Mike, what would now be there would be a line to the lake shore, with trains operated by SLNCR "B", NCC 1, with a G and 2 MGWR six wheelers as back up. And - would you believe - possibly a 2750 on loan from IE! There's a story behind THAT too!

C class!!

Yes, they are / were; always. On Eoin's comparison, the right hand one looks better. The actual colours available seem to veer between either to yellowy or too much blue - see avatar left for exact version. The lining - the single line on the lighter green livery is , I think 3 inches thick. Maybe 2 1/2. If anyone is close to Downpatrick or has access to the heritage RPSI set in Dublin, or the CIE green dining car at Whitehead, that can be measured. For the earlier green livery, the band above the windows looks to be about 8 or maybe 9 inches thick. The band below the windows is wider on the Bachmann coach model - this is entirely incorrect - it should be much narrower, possibly 6 inches. I will try to ascertain this. As can be seen on the film clip, on both buses and carriages the EDN bands were edged with black and gold. On snails and numerals, lined gold.

Correct. Lined ones on tenders of steam engines,* buses, road lorries, all carriages in older dark green, and some in the lighter post-55 green. Unlined on other lighter green coaches, and painted (smaller) on wagons prior to about 1955-ish; light green before that date, white after. Narrow gauge - West Clare generally no snails at all, but certainly in later years where present (and that was few!) unlined. The C & L had both lined and unlined. (* Note: Beware the incorrect tender "snails"; they were never, ever white, yellow, cream or gold! The short-lived RPSI yellow snails on 461 and 184 in the 1990s were entirely incorrect. It's the cabside numerals that were pale yellow only...) Yes. I do think, given all the posts above, that differing computer screens among all of us make online comparisons unreliable. To an extent. Initially done, they were all the same as paints were mixed with accuracy, and if we are looking at "snails", they were all standard transfers from Tearnes of Birmingham. Different lighting and wear and tear can make colours look "flatter" as some pigments fade quicker than others. Again, I think the solution to this will be a field visit, and again I would offer that if anyone here can match accurately from an actual example I can lend a suitable actual paint sample.

Could be the computer screens..... Possibly best to look at original. What I might do is take a scoot up to Enniskillen some day. I actually have a bit of metal at home here with the dark green on it. If anyone has the technology or something, to copy it accurately, please ping me and I'll make it available.

I'm fascinated by that tatty weathered finish to the shed doors also...what way did you do it? The buildings I'll be starting on soon will ideally look like that - somewhat "seen better days" look!

And long may you make your pronouncements, Robert! NIR actually use "train station" on their signage in several locations!

Looking at that chart, the 216 and 226 that I was quoted don't look right at all. The EDN is too yellowy by far, and the 226 too dark - it's more like UTA green.

Shows the difference in photos. Its the exact same transfer on the sides of carriages in the film, as on the board shown above. As others say, it's not easy to judge these things on a computer screen. The "Quiet Man" was filmed under floodlights; this actually (to my eye) makes the main body green somewhat brighter - but a newly painted carriage would, like a newly painted anything, look brighter. Looking at the above, and bearing in mind the vagaries of computer screens, Eoin's enhancement looks pretty good - though if I may split hairs (and I know this could descend into tiresome minutae!), something between that railtec transfer above, and the shade shown up of Eoin's enhancement, seems to fit both my own (vivid) recollection, and photos, including of the board above. I would add, in relation to the board, it hung on jhbSenior's wall all through my childhood and until a few years ago. Thus, I saw it in daylight, artificial light, bright, sunny, dark and gloomy conditions, so it's sort of ingrained in what little grey matter I have left......! It now adorns the wall of headhunter's Railway Museum in Enniskillen, along with much of the rest of his collection. Many, though by no means all, of the other coats of arms etc that are on display there are mounted on boards painted with the actual paint of the railway concerned, and two or three are actually cut out of coach sides. So for livery freaks like me, there is much information to be had on Headhunters' walls.... To my eye, and given the restrictions of computering screens, the best matches seem to be all on the top row, as follows: Best - the extreme end, i.e. top right, or the one to the left of it. Passable maybe - middle of the third lot (n175 C).

Superb! Brings me back..... I had something similar... I made a "laminate brake" out of cardboard, using copper wire glued onto it to imitate beading between panels, which worked well enough, though nowhere close to being comparable to anything seen today. This vehicle still sees use on Layout-of-Nephew. The sight of it behind a Murphy 141, though, would give me the collywobbles and screaming fits. Yes, the telephone wires.....rising, falling, rising, falling.......... and was that A42 just passed us with the loose-coupled goods on the other line? (These Park Royals are draughty oul things....)

I don't remember that appearing officially, as it were, at committee level (I was on the management committee then). It's possible that it was discussed informally by someone though. The Belcoo proposal was about the same time, and what happened there was that it was mentioned as a "request likely to be made shortly", and no objection was forthcoming, the actual request never came about. However, a request WAS made to CIE for Railcar B, then at Mallow, and was agreed to, as was a request for the MGWR 6-wheeler at Whitehead, No. 62M. This coach was then privately owned, and the owner was very much in favour of it going to Belcoo, but events overtook. The Belcoo scheme was dropped due to landowner's "local politics" issues, despite funding being there! Shortly afterwards, the private owner donated 62M to the RPSI, so that had a future request been made it would have been dealt with by the RPSI according to their then policies for such things. For info, I was asked to advise the Belcoo scheme from a railway operational perspective, and Selwyn Johnston of Enniskillen was a leading light in it too. The scheme would have consisted of exactly a mile and a half of line restored from Belcoo, opposite the old station (to avoid reinstating the level crossing) and over the river (and from Fermanagh into Cavan) to a terminus at the picnic site at Lough MacNean lake shore. It would have been a lovely line. Rolling stock was to have included Railcar B, with as a companion, NCC No. 1 - an old railcar line. NCC 1, owned by the RPSI, was in the opinion of then commiottee members, fair game, and it is reasonable to assume that loan agreement would then have been forthcoming. The restoration of both was estimated and included in what became a successful European funding application. ERDF money, Peace money, Fermanagh District Council money, and EU cross-border funding were all available. A new booking office would have been built in the adjacent community centre in Belcoo, and a two-road shed built behind it for the stock. On the station side of the road, the old goods shed, now long gone, was stull standing, and would become a museum, into which "Lough Erne" would go, along with small exhibits. The O'Dolan sisters were on board, amenable to the track being relaid along the old platform, should it be possible to reinstate the level crossing at some stage. In the end, we got them a GNR signal which stands there to this day. In addition to the railcars, the MGWR six wheeler would have been operable, and one G class and an old carriage chassis as a "work train" flat wagon would complete the rolling stock. Had the thing progressed, I would imagine another six-wheeler, probably from Mallow, would have arrived there. Trains would have consisted of a railcar on its own, or towing a six-wheeler. Gardner engines were sourced in England, of identical type, one each to be fitted into both of the railcars to have them standard, and a third was to be sought out as a spare. All in all, I think it would have made a very nice set-up indeed, and importantly for rural Irish railway heritage, as cheap as possible to operate. No pretensions towards steam haulage were to be made, though had the thing been a runaway success, I am sure a request for the Guinness engine or "Harvey" would have been made to Whitehead in due course. I think I still have all the details somewhere.

I had gone to Jim initially. He told me he is out of CIE green and it was in fact he who suggested Derek Farrelly, and in turn Derek suggested Vinny Byrne!