jhb171achill

The Great Western Trail people, Ernie... Contact Liam O'Mahony in that neck of the woods, or the RPSI should have it available on mail order. I do know that Clifton Flewitt of the ISPS / IRRS has it in stock. Liam O'Mahony's people published it.

When they rebuild it, will they employ our experts here to weather it? Just getting me coat...

Pure paradise. That would be the best layout imaginable!

Scots mac, PM me privately and I can go into more detail. I have checked photos in a number of books and several colour slides I have. Every pic I can see of 400 class locos are all unmistakeable grey. I had something else in the back of my mind era green loco, but when I turned it up it was a "Woolwich". These locos appeared in green, also grey, also black and as I said earlier a single one got black lined in red.

Hello Davy. That pic above looks grey to me. You are right that anything in black came late in the day. By this stage, much of the grey majority were so filthy they might as well have been black - or tartan, pink and yellow! 402 was certainly grey in a number of pics, though I cannot be certain whether it ever carried green or black - or when. I have seen a pic of at least one 400 in what is either black or very dirty grey. One weathering detail which can be seen in 186 today is that on account of the heat generated, a grey smokebox can look darker, leading to the understandable, but erroneous, impression that it is black like it would be on almost any other loco livery in the world! Though France often painted smoke boxes the same as the body colour, and South Africa routinely painted the smoke boxes of black engines in silver-grey.

And there are always 142 at Whitehead, and 146 and G613 at Downpatrick!

Looking at those pics, 402 would appear to be in unlined grey in that photo. At least some signs of lining would be visible otherwise, and a snail on the tender. And 670 is indeed one of the black variety, as is 464 on the next page as I mentioned I my earlier post. Hope this all helps!

Hello again, scots mac. All three 800s had blue backgrounds to plates in GSR days, and as you say two had red in latter times,probably dating from about 1952. I would not be an expert on the chimney configurations. Regarding 670, all locos - whether grey, green or black - had red buffer beams, as standard, but grey locos with the exceptions noted above never had black smoke boxes and chimneys - the red buffer beans were the only relief to what looked like a sheep dpi livery! 670 could well have been black. Must look in that book... All green locos were lined, without exception, but many of them, 400s especially, seemed to end up quite filthy. Thus, lining or indeed actual green paint was not perhaps as clear as it might be! I have seen two pics in my time of locos of this class where you could barely tell whether they were grey or green, such was the poor condition of the paintwork as well as the dirt.

Here we are. Bob Clements, Drew Donaldson and Bill McDonnell recorded the following, and it can be taken as extremely accurate. The green on anything other than the three 800s (incidentally only one was a "queen"! The rest were legendary figures) dates from 1947. Prior to that, apart from the 800s, absolutely everything was unlined plain all-over grey. Boiler bands were green edged in black, and with a double white line in the centre. Red buffer beams had black edging on green locos. 802 got the lighter shade in 1952/3. A solitary "Woolwich", no. 384, got black with red lining for the Rosslare Express, in the mid 50s. Three grey locos only got black smoke boxes and chimneys - Bandon Tank no. 464, J18 593 and J15 193. They were thus treated in Cork, a long way from home for a J18! The steam CIE era hasn't been well covered in models, so the very best of luck with it!

The colour scheme on the front of the book you mention is not accurate, as it shows a black smokebox and chimney and red lining on a number plate. They were grey all over. I will try to look out the list of green and black locos.

Wow! Those pics show some serious potential for a fascinating layout, Davy; and welcome to here. There are many with superb skills and knowledge who can help you. Regarding liveries, the main livery by far was battleship grey, perhaps marginally darker than your illustration. It is important to note that chimneys and smoke boxes were grey as well, as were most can interiors, and motion inside and out. Numerals were in a dark cream or light yellow, and "snails" were in the "Eau-de-nil" colour, which was a very pale yellowy green. Snails were never yellow or cream, always eau de nil. Some tenders were in service without snails, either because they hadn't been reprinted from late GSR days, or they just hadn't had any transfers handy. Very very few locos were black, and those that were would have been painted that way from about the mid fifties on. There is a list in Bob Clements book about CIE steam of what engines were green or black. These were with probably a single exception the only locos with black chimneys and smoke boxes, though Cork turned out a solitary J15 as late as about 1960 in grey, but with black smoke box. All green locos were fully lined in black and white, and the exact details can be seen on 800 in Cultra. One 800, I think 802 from memory, got a somewhat lighter shade of green in the early 50s, and at the same time became the only CIE loco to carry a red background on its number and nameplates - the other two had blue, again as on 800.

Even puddles on the path. And those hens are making me hungry. This is as good as modelling ever gets - outstanding - can't wait to see it some day if it's at a show.

Lines of goods vans like that... A necessary but often missing detail in some layouts... Well done for capturing the atmosphere so well.

It's just dawned on me...... I think.....

Little goods ran after 1947 even.

Wow wow wow! Excellent stuff......!

Ah sure we allow the culchies in the odd time, horsetan! :-)

Sounds excellent, Phil; best of luck.

That's actually an interesting point. BnM track almost always looks as it it's (a) three quarters submerged in weeds and mud, and (b) extremely uneven to an extent that in model form would just put locos off the track. I wonder how you would reproduce it - probably best smooth track with lots of grass growing round it?

What's going to happen in the Spring Series? Predictions? And - do we have an IRM sub-group who are known to inhabit Croke Park and partake of light refreshments afterwards?

Not in colour, though, Horsetan! ;-)

Four of the four wheeled TPOs were later converted into heating vans....

A Bord na Mona model would be a very unusual and interesting subject. Looking forward to seeing how it develops. Looking great so far! I like the old shed...

Looks incredibly real, and busy! Wish there was still a location lime it! It's better layout-watching these days than actual train-watching.....

Possibly have it running on a shelf-like layout around the walls of wherever you have your collection? That way you could make it out out of narrower boards end to end rather than a large rectangular baseboard... maybe that would do?