jhb171achill

The Whitehead livery is based on the idea that most carriages in the twilight era of steam were dark green: the pre-'55 CIE green (albeit relieved by lighter green lines) and the UTA green 1948-66. The Whitehead set is based on UTA livery - more or less the same green, and with lining similar to, but not the same as the UTA version. The lettering on RPSI stock is also somewhat more ornate than that used by the UTA. The blue and yellow used on Cravens in the Dublin area is a new livery designed to give the Dublin set a totally new, and easily identifiable look. As Garfield says, IE are not keen (in some quarters) on any livery which might be mistaken for their ownership. So black'n'tan, while technically the only correct livery for cravens, is better avoided just at the moment. The RPSI DUblin set is, of course, in authentic 1955-62 CIE lighter green (apart from one carriage in a reddish colour with flying snails - not authentic livery). In preservation, there is an old adage that the volunteer is the one with the paintbrush! As one who cut my teeth painting RPSI carriages in the late 70s, outdoors with no H & S, no roof, no hi-vis etc etc etc I was told that back then... though had I painted a day glo tartan livery on an NCC third, I am sure someone would have had a quiet word with me....

Horsetan. the RPSI had 525 and 727, as well as existing No. 9 in the Dublin set - the last of them. 525 was a brake coach like 114, and 727 was a full open - in fact, it lasted as a 70 class intermediate until about 1980, making it the last GNR coach in service. GNR coaches of post war vintage very built with very poor quality wood, and rotted prolifically. 727 and 595 literally fell apart while awaiting restoration at Whitehead some years ago. 114 still exists, but would not be in anything like runnable condition - she would need a 100% rebuild. She had been used as a crew coach well into the 1990s on northern based trips and the May Tour. No. 9 - or 1909 as it is now known, was very rotten and was completely structurally rebuilt at Whitehead in the early '90s. There was another GNR coach - a rare brake first of about 1940 origin - which was used as a coal-carrying and crew coach on most of the Society's early tours. (It wasn't a K15, obviously!). This coach was also prone to body rot and was scrapped years ago. Surviving GNR coaches are the RPSI's Dublin vintage set diner No. 88, and of course the Director's Saloon, No. 50, at Whitehead. At Downpatrick, the body of a six wheel GNR coach sits on a matching 30ft chassis of MGWR origin, awaiting eventual restoration. It is one of six that were acquired second hand by the BCDR from the GNR in the 1920s, but saw little use on the BCDR before being withdrawn after only a few years and the body sold off locally. Since this thread is about liveries... the coaches referred to above include 114 - the last coach surviving in GNR brown livery. This bypassed CIE green and was repainted directly from GNR livery to black and tan about 1966. CIE used it a few years more. 595 ended its days in NIR all-over maroon with waist level light grey line. this livery was applied briefly to what clapped out ex-UTA stock was retained for loco hauled excursion use. This stock briefly included some old de-engined railcar stock too. 727 ended up with the NIR livery of maroon and blue. Diner 88 has had many liveries. Starting in GNR scumble, later GNR brown, then GNR blue and cream, UTA green, NIR maroon and grey, then it entered RPSI ownership. It has carried (in RPSI times) a non authentic maroon livery, GNR blue and cream, and latterly CIE post-1955 green (which actually suits it very well). While 88 was never owned by CIE, some 50% of GNR coaching stock, including other catering vehicles, was.

Nice original idea - but with printed sides I'd expect a price of €40, not €400.... sorry....

In case anyone's interested, the colour in the photo looks brownish, but the actual containers were the then standard CIE container orange colour. The wagons were just standard 4w flats, painted brown, but looking like the livery was a mix of brake dust and rust, as on Tara wagons today. And, yes, they were for grain.

What a STUNNING model! (less white above front windows though!) I remember the last run on an IRRS trip with 106 back in (I think?) 1977 / 8..... never saw them on their stamping ground, but a Waterford - Mallow based layout would look well with a few...

Just shows the gems that IRRS meetings throw up! I am rarely in Dublin on Thursday nights but hopefully I will be able to get to some of these meetings in the future. I would very strongly recommend membership of the IRRS to modellers, as they have much useful information in there.

There will be steam trains on the Downpatrick & Co Down Railway on 1st January, if that would be any interest if you are in / around the north. It's not that far from Cultra (Ulster Folk and Transport Museum... which is excellent).

On re-reading the above, please forgive my typos! I norm;aly spel quiet. w3ell.

Thanks for comments re liveries, folks. In answer to: "......Except the converted parcels/brake van that became the iconic weedsprayer wagon. I assume Edgar Craven Bredin was the same engineer, along with Beaumont, responsible for both iconic carriage design types associated with his name?....." Yes. H J A Beaumont joined Inchicore in 1899 as a trainee draughtsman in the old drawing office there and by the time Edgar Bredin came along he was the senior one, thus it was to him that Bredin turned when he wanted a shape put on his plans. Info on HJAB is surprisingly sparse. He was an extremely private man who kept himself to himself and his family. In family ownership, nothing whatsoever has survived of his... and most of his drawings of the 800 class locos was destroyed in a clear out at the works in the early 1960s. Bredin and HJAB were involved with the second batc h of Drumm trains and numerous rebuilds of both locos and carriages, as well as the 800 class and the "Bredin" coaches. The coaches were the first steel-skinned coaches in Ireland, though the GNR(I) were developing their own at the same time. To this end, HJAB made several visits to Dundalk Works, and his counterparts came to Inchicore to review progress. There were two versions: side corridor main line stock and centre aisle suburban stock with no end gangways at first, though these were later added. With all having gangways eventually, the suburban ones were not at all uncommon on the main lines. Many were still in use on CIE well into the 1970s. The RPSI had three (or pissib ly four; memory lets me down here), all but one of which suffered fatal damage in a fire at Mullingar some years ago, where one was torched, and in the late 90s another 2 were among 5 or 6 coaches awaiting restoration at Whitehead which were destroyed in a vandal-related fire. (Pity the vandals weren't in them). The sole remaining complete one is currently undergoing restoration by the RPSI and will hopefully return to main line service. I think, as someone said, there is a non-operational one at Dromod. If so, it is likely to be 1900, the solitary Bredin all-first. Bredin / HJAB also designed the steel-panelled TPOs, post office sorting vans and full brakes which were to be seen in use well into CIE period. The very last CIE-built full brakes were built to an essentially Bredin design in the late 50s, by which time both Bredin and HJAB were no longer in the railway. (HJAB, in fact, had died in 1951).

Ah! The dreaded Saxons are kidnapping Henry Shefflin to play for Man U. That's why the sub is in reverse.

Looks fantastic... wonder if it's possible to get the NIR logs and numerals used on these? I seem to remember someone did those rub-on transfers at one time....

Looks absolutely stunning!

I take the point that repaints of BR models are not quite the real thing, but I'd say an exact replica would end up being much dearer in the shops. The windows show up the BR ancestry more than anything else - they have round corners, whereas AECs had much squarer corners. In my own modellin g days, none of the RTR stuff was available so one had to make do with one's own efforts, or a repainted BR Mk 1 for just about anything! The only thing I would add - and please accept as very constructive criticism, as the overall effect is excellent - is that the blue looks more like GNR loco blue than railcar blue. The railcars had a navy blue shade, while loco blue is best seen at Whitehead on 171 and 85. Painting the ends of carriages in the bodyside livery was much more a BR thing than the product of anything over here (like black wagon chassis and ironwork). With the exception of some (but not all) non-corridor stock, CIE and UTA painted carriages black on the ends, irrespective of side livery. GNR railcars and loco hauled stock had blue and cream on the ends usually (I have seen phots of black on ends in this livery too, though I can't recall whether it was railcars or loco hauled stock...).. The flying snail is the wrong way round on the green cars too.... Anyway; that's my tuppence half'penny worth.... great model, long overdue, and great credit to Silverfox. Maybe a 70 class next? (Runs and hides....)

A pleasure, weshty!

Correct, Horsetan. And in the ten or fifteen years post-independence (and other times since!) Ireland was not a wealthy country as we know!

Yes. We buried Mike on Saturday last; a true gentleman as mentioned and a good friend to all involved in the DCDR. RIP, Mike; we'll keep 'er lit for you!

The Belfast factory was Eastwoods, now itself long gone. CIE and the UTA scrapped locos in Belfast, Dundalk and Dublin; Mullingar also, and possibly at other locations. Both did a lot of scrapping themselves.

Bear in mind the colour became truly orange in the 80's - it was a duller browner shade before that, right back to 1962. When the 071s were first delivered, the colour they were painted in the USA was browner still until first Inchicore repaint.

The orange / black side window frame is a detail stroke of genius! Looks amazing.

The only colour pic I saw of an Inchicore "Cab" operation was of an ancient loco and an even more ancient ex-MGW six-wheeler. The loco was so dirty that Poirot couldn't have worked out what colour it had been painted - though I'd be 99.99% certain it was grey. The coach was in VERY dirty and faded initial CIE dark brunswick green with badly faded loight green bands above and below windows. I doubt if the "joined-on" locos / coach portion were ever green, as the last was scrapped about 1949, just a few years into pre-nationalisation CIE ownership. For a modeller, the loco would probably be 100% weathering paint! A grey loco could well have shown faded lining in a scrap line, though I doubt in traffic. CBSCR engines were originally green, apparently of an olive shade, with quite elaborate yellow lining. Name and number plates were indeed removed for economy - though I doubt if they got the price of a dozen eggs as a result of recycling the scrap! If you are ever in Clifden, the six-wheel coach under tarpaulin there in the Station House Hotel car park shows glimpses of both CIE and GSR lining.

That carriage looks like a Bredin-origin one to me - if so, it's 1935 rather than 1937 design, i would guess.

Seems odd now, doesn't it! Note one of the later 4 wheeled heating vans still in use on the train headed by a 141... and red "buffer beams" still on the brand new DARTs!

Me loyalties WELL divided this Sunday. Dublin -v- Mayo; I'll have a blue shirt though, as will Mrs Woman, who is not a Dubliner at all..... C'mon ye boys in blue! If it was anyone else playing Mayo, I'd be shouting me head off for Mayo................. see ye in the North Star before the match, and in the Cusack during it! :tumbsup: :) =D=D=D :-bd

Haha sorry heirflick! Yes, with a dearth of published photos and periodicals until recent times, details of many aspects of the railways useful to modellers (and none more so than liveries) were not as well publicisdd as they might have been. In Britain, the tendency was for railway companies to paint all metalwork black, though exceptions existed. Here it was the other way round. Few companies did this, most preferrring all over grey - of various shades - and brown, or pre 1925 on some lines, black or almost-black grey, all over. Having said that, many wagons were also infrequent visitors to paint shops, and the paintwork would become very heavily faded and weathered, so nondescript brake dust mixed with dirt would be a good "weathering livery" on some black chassis! Look even at modern IE freight stock - if you can find any which aren't plastered with graffiti, or even find any at all! They will show signs of the same - a nondescript dirty colour with a rusty brown tint (from brake dust).