jhb171achill

There goes a man with no PTS....... nor hard boots, or dayglo vest - but do ye know what! He survived....

Must check that out, Weshty - it's one of the very few books I don't have at the moment. Interesting.... I remember seeing a pic of a Woolwich which looked like it had darker than usual green, but it was very dirty. Another pic of the same loco somewhere else, taken about the same time, showed it much lighter... same with railcars sometimes. I remember the UTA green could look a lot darker in certain light if it was dirty. I'll know what it is when I see the pic!

The UTA's MPDs are a modellers paradise!

Interesting, Weshty. I was aware of the one-offs in black or blackish colours, and the green one, though earlier when I posted that I was away from my own research records so couldn'nt quote exact loco numbers from memory. But the "blue-green" intrigues me. Is it possible to direct me to the pic showing it? I suspect it might have been the standard green, but very dirty, possibly allied with a distorted colour rendition in an old slide, but I'd be interested to see it anyway.

The grey on RPSI's 186 is correct - described in GSR days as "dark battleship grey". Occasional variations, according to those who were there to witness it, would see an occasional locomotive painted even darker, and many appeared dirty black when heavily weathered. At least one J15 was turned out in a colour little darker than wagon grey in the 30s. Towards the end of steam in the late 50s, a few locomotives were painted black. A list of them is in the late Bob Clements / Drew Donaldsons book on CIE locos which was published in the 70s. The RPSI for some reason "dirties" the smokebox and chimney on 186, while maintaining clean paint on the rest of the loco, to make the smokebox look black. In traffic, it was all grey - one of extremely few liveries in the world where the smokebox and chimney were not black. Wheels were also grey.

In CIE days, Park Royals would often turn up as intermediates - even wooden ex-GSW coaches also could be seen in AEC sets in the 50s. The GNR and UTA also used ex-loco hauled stock as centre coaches in AEC sets.

In CBSCR days they were green, probably a shade of olive green, lined in yellow. After 1925 they were all over grey, smokebox, wheels & chimney included until withdrawal. One (maybe 2 - have to look it up) of the class received lined CIE green as seen on 800 in Cultra, in the mid 50s. Pre-CIE days, from 1925 they had the standard cast GSR numberplates. Later CIE used the then-standard painted numerals.

Damn!!!!!!!!!! You'll laugh at this, but this iPad turned "josefstadt" into "upsets tarts"!!!!!!! Did you see that?

As upsets tart says, I would check out that info. Generally, small country termini would have one goods platform with separate area for loading cattle and a goods shed, and one passenger platform at which the run round loop was generally situated. Perhaps 3 or 4 sidings. Compared with GB you wouldn't have much in the way of private owner sidings, though some existed and one would make a nice addition to the layout. A small loco shed, maybe one or two roads, and a turntable would complete the picture, as would an adjacent station master's house....

Anyone modelling one? ,!!

Congratulations! Absolutely excellent, very authentic model.

car Reg: IE 131D UK IRL NI 000005 ECZ 44566 778 23 67 9987 56445 000001 8890122347 G 7576456589

Or my car? or my lawnmower? Cups and saucers?

That's mad, Josefstadt.... I wonder will they extend it to Downpatrick! If they do that can buy the paint themselves for the lettering!! :-) What about the various 3ft gauge heritage lines too?

Indeed Mayner... I remember seeing the GN section variant - it did remind me of the GNR livery though the UTA version had a shade of blue more like the GNR locos had been, not the darker (almost navy) blue of the railcars, buses and Fintona and Howth trams! The green version on the Bangor line just looked odd, especially those cars (not all of them) which had a painted-on red buffer beam - it clashed with the green and must have been a nightmare for anyone who was colour blind. It's worth noting that the UTA version differed in a few respects - the inclusion of the NIR logo being the most obvious - this was on everything. The original version was upright rathern than slanted, and was in gold, edged in white. It was applied to several steam engines, creating an NIR "livery" for steam engines which was simply the existing UTA black with their lining, but with the UTA crest painted out and the NIR emblem added. The now preserved No. 4 latterly had the UTA crest on the right hand tank (from the driver's view point) and the NIR symbol on the left. The NIR always used light grey rather than the cream used by the UTA on some variations. Imagine what a Hunslet would have looked like in lined black, or a "Jeep" 2-6-4T in early NIR maroon! Now there's a photoshopping thought.

That was the standard NIR livery (maroon & grey) introduced in late 1967, an amended version of a recently introduced UTA livery applied to the then-new 70 class sets. NIR applied it to these ex-GNR AEC cars, ex-GNR BUT cars, MEDs and MPDs on the Bangor line and NCC, as well as the 70 class. This remained NIR's standard livery for railcars until the advent of first of two batches of 80 class sets in 1974, which were delivered in the dark aquamarine blue and maroon, with 1 inch white line separating them. This blue and maroon livery had itself appeared in 1970 on the then-new "Enterprise" Mk 2's, but was not applied to anything else at the time. Once the 80s (which were never maroon and grey) were operating, the maroon and dark blue spread to the 70 class and some MPD cars, though most ended their careers in maroon and grey. No MED cars were ever repainted maroon and blue and all ended their lives in the early 80s still in maroon and grey. Most 70 class vehicles became maroon and blue though some centre cars passed into the 80s still in maroon and grey; former NCC coach 526 being one. This is all railcar talk. In the NIR era, loco hauled stock had its own story livery wise. Such former steam stock as was retained had an all over maroon livery with the one inch waist line as on (later) maroon and blue coaches. Thus, new railcars and carriage stock were maroon above the waist and had the white line, but while railcars were blue below, carriages were the same maroon. (if that makes sense!). By 1974, few loco hailed carriages were left, and a small number of former railcars were repainted in the maroon "carriage livery", de-engined, and used as loco hauled stock for a very short time. The discovery of asbestos and the 1978 second batch of 80 class sets saw to their demise, as did the lack of locos, as NIR's only three locos (the Hunslets) were becoming increasingly unreliable, especially 103. By this stage, all 80s and almost all 70s were maroon / blue along with a few MPDs, while the other MPDs and all MEDs were maroon and grey. Enterprise stock, by now comprising al loco hauled stock, were maroon / blue. The next change was to be the advent of the "Castle" class, as they were then inevitably called, rather than "450" class. These appeared in an all over cream livery with maroon and orange stripes. Following that, NIR went down the road of a mini-BR with "regions" (each one consisting of quite a few hundred metres of track)! Initially, an all over grey was adopted, with a broad maroon band below window level on 80 class railcars. Noother railcars were painted this way. At the same time the "Enterprise" stock was painted the same way, but with a light blue band. About the time CIE became IR / IE, and the "tippex" white stripes were added to the orange and black livery, NIR added similar white stripes either side of the blue on "Enterprise" coaches, but never on the railcars' maroon stripes. The 80 class sets hired to CIE (three sets initially) ended up coming back to NIR still in this grey-with-maroon-stripe livery, with IR "set-of-points" logo, long after thiis livery had been replaced by what comes next...This was an "inter city" livery of grey lower, blue upper, with white / black / white / yellow stripes below the window, and grey between the top of the windows and the roof, which was a much darker grey. The "suburban" livery was red and cream with an orange band under the window. There was an orange diamond on the ends and the red swept up at power car ends. Eventually this died out and the "inter city" version (also applied to the Enterprise) became standard. Later variations were that the blue extended to roof level, and about 1995 the three coloured lining below window level was replaced by a broad turquoise stripe, at the start of the Translink era. NIR symbols gradually gave way to translink ones, though some carriages carried none. The six NIR locomotives had different liveries to the railcars. The Hunslets were delivered in maroon, with white-lined yellow V shaped panels at the ends, the exact shape of which varied with repainting (pretty much like any NIR diesel to date!). (Actually, there were several variations of the white V on the end of 80 class sets in maroon / blue). The Hunslets were later painted blue, the last (102) receiving a late repaint with black surrounds to the cab windows, a darker shade of blue, and different yellow markings; the other two of the class hav ing been withdrawn by that stage. NIR's three 071s (sorry, 111s or GMs, or I suppose 88888881111's) were initially a shade of blue slightly lighter than GNR blue, but in later repaints the darker (more GNR like) blue that they are now. Both they and the Hunslets initially had deep orange V shapes on the ends, but later yellow panels, the exact shape and size of which have varied on all three GMs with virtually every repaint. The "C" class locos bought from CIE by NIR had the lighter blue and the deep orange V's on the ends, but inverted. The huge NIR logos on the sides of all three classes of NIR locos initially had squared or "sharp" corners and later on rounded ones as today on 888888111 / 2 / 3. The ex-GNR railcars went to CIE for scrapping, but were never leased for traffic purposes, though rugby events saw them enter Lansdowne Road station on specials from the north....

Absolutely top class, Leslie. Best of luck with it.

That looks absolutely, utterly, grotesque. The logo is bad enough in full colour; in that form it looks like a deformed "Z" on its side. The numbering is crass, stupid, nonsensical. The whole point of numbering anything is to identify it. In this day and age of H & S regulations designed to allow information to be obvious to even the least observant among us (yellow ends, different coloured passenger doors, fluorescent clothing), that style of numbering is ridiculous, even before we consider the scant likelihood of an Irish locomotive straying into Belgium by mistake. What is wrong? I know we're part of the EU, but do you think for one second the French or the British would follow that type of pan-EU* nonsense without questioning it? (* I am pro-EU, not anti; but this is retard stuff.) Rant over. And this is coming from one of the few who actually liked steam engines in sheep-dipped all-over grey!

I've seen some howlers on boards.ie myself.......... !! And the usual gathering of one-agenda internet trolls.... (one in particular!)

Wow!!! A blast from the past could be the wide variety of CIE lorries from the late 60s to the 1980s with black cabs, silver grey bodies, and the CIE roundel on the cab doors - or even their predecessor - alll sorts of ancient lorries, vans and buses in green with "snails" - often practically too big for the cab door side!

Snatcher panels were never black, unless they were within the area of the mid-body black band already. My own recollections are that they could get dirty or rusty looking at times, which could result in a poorly defined, distant, or poorly lit photograph appearing to show it in a darker colour. Also, 071s with the original all-white CIE emblem on the ends, i.e. in the "as-delivered" livery, should be a very distinctly darker shade or "orange" - in fact, closer to a light browny tan colour; certainly not orange as such. I haven't seen any of the new models yet but if i may make one small constructive remark - the photos of the models look more like the normal orange colour.

Haha! Probably depends, Heirflick, as they might say "which fut ye kick with" lol!

I was on that trip and I recognise one or two people in that photo!

Dave, what type of prototype would you be thinking of? Large city, small through station, small terminus? Bear in mind as a starter that the vast majority of all irish lines were (and are) single track. Loco roundhouses were exceptionally rare - very low single figures and all (both!) on the GNR. City termini outside Dublin rarely had more than two platforms; indeed one city terminus IN Dublin just had one. Just a few thoughts.........

Does that count as religion? :-)