jhb171achill

Totally agree. I cannot understand why CIE don't just send these landgrabbers a nasty legal letter; given that they are 101% in the right, that should not be difficult.

Interesting. While involved in RPSI finances some 20 years ago, I was appoached by a gent who represented a business consortium. These people were Dublin-based, and had seen how successful the Severn Valley Railway was while on holiday in England, and thought they could replicate it here. One of them owned a large amount of property in the south-east, including a former branch line terminus and several miles of track bed adjacent to it. Their question was that if they rebuilt the line, would the RPSI be able to sell them "any old trains". I met them independently, rather than wearing an RPSI official hat, to discuss their plans. Should these come to anything, I would then guide them through what questions they might reasonably expect the RPSI to be able to answer. Once they learned of the issues - both financial and technical - surrounding steam engine maintenance and operation, and the likely costs of operation (never mind their takings), they were somewhat disconcerted. Adding to that the costs of restoring the only carriages likely to have been available at the time, and they were off like a shot. It is easy to look at a preserved train and say, "That would look great in my area". Few are fully aware, though, of the time, money and specialised expertise involved in operating them, and it gets worse: not one serious proposal I have ever had any detailed knowledge of, has the slightest clue as to the potential market - thus income - which is essential fo9r the scheme to survive, even if it has 100% unlimited financial backing to get it going. I suspect that well-meaning as the promoters of this New Ross scheme are, they are learning realities now. Fair enough; this is how we learn. Good for them to give it a go. To run a steam engine to New Ross and back from Waterford will dispose of several hundred euro's worth of coal per round trip. A 7-10 year boiler exam will cost that times ten. Insurance will cost perhaps €10,000 per year. Track maintenance, carriage restoration, maintenance and certification to run. An inconvenient truth perhaps; but how many return fares will it take to cover these items alone? The DCDR has a total of some 7km of track, of which just 3km is regularly used. The maintenance and upkeep for the PW, fences and stations costs over double the entire steam loco, diesel loco and coaching budget for the year. For a longer line, multiply accordingly; adding a few zeroes when you come to bridges and level crossings. Downpatrick has yet to need a comprehensive signalling budget but this is coming as the volunteers develop this aspect. I do genuinely wish anyone who tries to preserve any railway the very best of luck. But unless they have answers to ALL (not most!) of the above, they're wasting their time.

I saw it last night. It is stuck away beside the taxis, not at all in a clearly visible position. Are they going to move it to the concourse, I wonder?

Excellent stuff, Mayner... brings back similar memories to me too. That was the Indian Summer of the AEC's; soon they would become dilapidated push-pulls...

Wonder how they would have looked in UTA green or black'n'tan! Photoshop anyone?

Nothing like it Mayner! Tell us your AEC memories! I suppose my own earliest memories were 1st class compartment, antimacassars, in old wooden GNR 1st class coach hauled by 207 "boyne" - albeit too vague to write much about......

Yes, there was Reggie, the above mentioned character Noel Scott, Jim Flavelle and others... and Mrs Logue, a London native, who operated the bookstall... remember 'em well.

The maroon livery really looked the business on them when new, as did the maroon and blue livery. Personally, I thought the later liveries - especially the grey and light blue on carriages - looked a bit watery.....

Congrats, looks great! NCC modelling is something that could always do with greater exposure.....

That's the good thing about model railways - we can preserve and operate what we like, even if nobody else is interested! Notwithstanding what I said, the unique ex- SLNCR railcar is at Downpatrick and the plan is to restore it (albeit a very long term project), and watch this space re an 80 class.....................!!

That's right Mayner, though I suspect later in the 60s. That said, whether a "normal" set was 3 or 4 car, or anything else, doesn't mean that the odd train was 2 or 5! I do remember redaing of two car AEC / BUT sets on SOME DSER trains in the early or mid 60s, though this would have been the exception (I would think) rather than the rule. I saw a pic, right enough, of the set you mention - and it had a 4th livery: a dirty looking silver tin van in tow! I have a pic somewhere - if only I could find it - of an AEC set on the Portadown line in 1967. It is a standard ex-GN set as usual on that line at the time 3 car. One car is in UTA green with wasp striped front; one in UTA's GN section blue and cream, and one in brand new maroon and grey (NIR). I must try to dig it out.

Disgraceful, letting graffiti'd ones stay like that. Some image for the railway!

A little footnote re 121's: DCDR toyed with the idea of approaching IE for one, but decided aganist it due to (a) driver visibility on Downpatrick North Junction curve when running nose-first, and (b) the almost simultaneous offer by the ITG to provide A39! Who knows...

Sounds a bit like the case for building two more "800" class 4.6.0's!

Yellow rear numberplate: speed in the south. White numberplate: speed in the north. Not that I'd dream of it, of course. But rumour has it................. Disclaimer: "Speed" does not necessarily imply a speed in excess of the legal limit..... I'll get me coat.

Very true, weshty. I remember standing at Port Laoise thinking "will I bother taking a pic of this" - the subject was the 10:30 to Cork, with a pair of 141s up front, and eleven carriages, a BR van and a "tin van". That train tended to be busy. I noticed even then that almost no two coaches were alike. There were numerous varieties of "laminates" to start with, but some tended to be altered, often quite a few times. There was at least one Bredin in it, and one Craven. I eventually took one pic of it disappearing into the distance, but it's not a great one....

Sulzer, you're looking at AEC railcars mostly at that stage. May '66 almost all black'n'tan, possibly still a rare green one. In 1962/3 there was one AEC car in GNR navy and cream which would turn up on that line now and again. Your AEC will usually be a three car set, often trailing one or two four wheeled (not six wheeled) tin vans. The centre car could well be the RPSI's ex-GNR brake 2nd, which was the last coach in traffic in GNR livery. It skipped the green era and was still navy and cream when repainted into black'n'tan in 1965/6. Other possible centre cars would be laminates or Park Royals usually. "A" class locos would feature on specials, as would 141s or 121s. Possibly the odd service train too, in which case the coaching stock would be laminates, Park Royals, and Bredins. Cravens would be unlikely in May '66 though I wouldn't rule the odd one out. Very occasionally, a wooden bogie - almost certainly of GSWR origin, but black'n'tan - would appear. There was a rake of them kept in traffic until 1974, even including at least one gas lit non corridor example, though this particular specimen spent its twilight years on seaside-specials duty in Dublin. In those days, when the tramway we have now was actually a railway, there was no such thing as these fixed-formation trains we have now. You could get all sorts of things; that's what made it interesting. The front and rear of your train could have one or two four or six wheeled "tin vans", or a bogie full brake. There was still a solitary wooden ex-GSWR six wheeled full brake in traffic at that stage, though the only pics I've seen of it are on the Galway line. I believe it survived until 1967, and was one of only two similar 6-wheeled coaches ever to get black'n'tan livery. (No passenger-carrying ones ever did). Had it appeared on the DSER, it most likely would have been stuck on the end of an AEC set - where you could find all sorts of things, even standard "H" goods vans (all-over grey!) Dutch and BR vans would not have featured at all at that stage. Now, the goods trains..............

Did he carry it about with him in case anyone was in doubt?

The thing about railcar preservation is that two factors have to be taken into account; the emotional and the practical. The "emotional" relates to the natural attachment we all, as enthusiasts, have towards certain vehicles. In truth, railcars are much less popular among the majority of enthusiasts than steam or diesel locomotives - that said, they are of equal historic interest. However, preservationists are volunteers, free to go to the ITG / DCDR / RPSI or not, as they see fit. Bein volunteers, they work on what they want to work on themselv es, and excellent results ensue. The fact that among even railcars, 450s were about the least popular (along with the awful MEDs and MPDs). Personally, I detested tht things. They were ugly, severely uncomfortable to travel in, with two speeds: "stop" and "go". In winter they were draughty and freezing, in summer stuffy. The seats were so much lower than the windows that a decent view out involved sitting upright. Ghastly things. Fair enough, that's just my view: others may differe and I respect that. But the reality is that among my own contacts in the RPSI, DCDR and ITG (and I am a member of all three), I am unaware of one person who would have any real interest in preserving one. Now - the other reason is more important; the practical. Nobody, but nobody, among the general public would be interested in a DCDR or RPSI day out in one, thus preservation of one as a revenue-earning train is unrealistic. That said, should someone stump up sufficient money and space, there's no reason why one could not have been saved as a static exhibit somewhere. Overall, I would personally take the view that an 80 class is historically of much greater worthiness for preservation - as indeed is the last remaining AEC car, 6111 in inchicore, still in posession of its original steam heating boiler. The length of time it has been there, and the extent to which it is well known among enthusiasts, and the attendant lack of interest by anyone in putting down money and time to preserve it, tells its own story. A pity, but there ye go. I suppose the bottom line is that we can hardly preserve everything; the lack of any MGWR or CBSCR loco surviving the pogrom of the early 1960s is also a shame, but nobody's died as a result.....

It was indeed at that time they came in and yes, they were to be seen in the same rake, albeit not that often. The "Galway" liveried ones also ran mixed in with others of normal orange and black livery. While I never saw all three variants in the same train, there is no reason why it shouldn't have happened. Back in the day, a train could have Park Royals, Bredins, several types of laminates, along with Cravens in the same train - but that's another story.

Is that an Australian train in the pic above?

So there I was, sitting in the usual 24xx "laminate" dining car, having my dinner off the usual bent-edged tray, with dribbly teapot, cup and saucer; no plastic Costa Coffee cups in those days. It was lashing down. Pouring for the third day in a row, and carting myself about the countryside on a runabout ticket meant a dash across a platform to a connecting train or bus, with no chance of taking photographs. In any event, I could just afford maybe one 36 exposure film a week with my pocket money - and that didn't include posting it to England to have it developed. I was treating myself: full dinner was over £3, but a steak on a moving train is only inferior as a life experience to a pint of Guinness on a steam hauled one, so that was that. The quarter light of the window above me was dripping, as were others, and across the aisle there was a drip from the ceiling onto an unoccupied seat. We must have been hurtling towards Athlone, as at Ballinasloe our "A" class slowed, stopped, and picked up a passenger who, let us say, was of somewhat rural background. He was also three sheets to the wind; sozzled, gee-eyed, away with the drink, frolicking in the meadows with the Sweetie Mice. He tottered to the seat opposite and sat down heavily, oblivious to the constant drip on his shoulder. Out came the pipe, which he lit up. Along came the Tickets-Please man. "Ye can't smoke that in here. Ye have to go to the smokin' carriage". "Wha?" "I said, ye can't smoke that here. This is the dining car, you can't......" "Wha? Do I look like in in de dining car? I'm not *** eatin anything!" "I told ye. Ye CAN'T SMOKE IN HEAR. YE HEAR ME!" "I'll **** smoke wherever I **** like, ye little *****!" At this, the Rural Gentlemen stood up, took off his jacket, and rolled up his sleeves. I turned to look ouit of the window, admiring the grey rain pouring out of a grey sky onto barely visible grey turf bog, as we sped through eastern Co Galway. The guard retreated, collected his thoughts, and came back, "If ye don't put that ***** thing out NOW, I'm stoppin' the train at Athlone and I'll get ye ****ed off the train where ye belong. Right?" The rural one ignored him, and smoked his pipe. At Athlone, the guard reappeared with a different type of guard. Or Garda. This time, Rural one was civil, though still slurred.... a somewhat more muted conversation ensued, and he completed his journey to Dublin with his pipe in his pocket. Up front, the "A" purred away, speeding its motley selection of half a dozen laminates and Park Royals eastward through Athlone and Mullingar, and finally Westland Row; sorry, Pearse. Our pipe smoking friend still never noticed the dripping......

Simple; he was just on the turntable. Lucky he didn't fall into the pit.....

I remember it well! Whitehead, back in the day... A few well known now late middle aged men in view.....

I'm actually beginning (just about!) to prefer that all-grey to the black and silver! Probably mostly because there's less yellow....